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Old 29th Jan 2003, 20:30
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Hi, I've just got back from a visit to Cosford museum and was fortunate enough to be allowed into their restoration hangar where there was a Miles Mohawk looking in an advanced state of resto. The chap there knew nothing about it so can anyone tell me anything ??? Thanks
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Old 29th Jan 2003, 21:57
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Aah Hairyplane, you have obviously been smitten by the very attractive Blossom - all the more reason to read the book.

I have two of those tales of the fifties, from the Brooklands shop, when I was present for Shell's award of the Pagoda to Polly Vacher as a permanent exhibition.

I wonder which eye Blossom lost, even her biographer is not clear on it.

Congrats on the Hairymouse award - great stuff.

You have a busy season ahead. The G-VWEG at Kemble is certainly a must, RIAT used to be, but if I have to choose...

cheers
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Old 29th Jan 2003, 22:07
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HP - congrats.

Are you flying or static at RIAT?

As for the Auster - only one way to decide such disagreements - a dogfight. This is where Camo-Maggie [tm] comes into its own. I'm sure we could rustle up a Lewis gun for the rear cockpit and turn the seat around.
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Old 29th Jan 2003, 22:18
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Congrats on the award Hairy!

You want to watch making suggestions like that Damien, those darstadly Auster pilots sometimes camoflague theirs too, and I suspect aren't above taking a leaf out of the Grasshopper pilots' book and tying bazookers on to handy things like struts!

Then again there's a faint connection between Austers and Little Nellie! Yes, I was watching You Only Live Twice last night when I should have been PPRuNeing! And the Dambusters the night before (thanks Chris!).
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Old 29th Jan 2003, 22:38
  #125 (permalink)  
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MMMmmmiles better than Austers

Hello guys!

Bingo - the Mohawk G-AEKW was the only one of its type, designed by Miles to the exacting requirements of Charles Lindbergh. He wanted a high-speed machine with a long range (you should see the tankage and fuel system!) in order to 'prove' airline routes throughout Europe.

It had a huge range - 1400 miles! - and cruised at 170mph.

Power was an American engine, a Supercharged 200hp 6cyl. Menasco Buccaneer.

It was impressed into the military but ended up as a derelict hulk post-war. Rescued from a dump - I can find all the details if you want - it went to The States for restoration. However, it wasn't completed and was generously donated to the RAF Museum.

The work to restore the fuselage - the wings have yet to be done - was awarded to my good friends at SkySport - restorers of the Bulldog, Wallace and a number of fine restorations/ recreations.

THe American work - shhhh! - was not good and it all had to be stripped out and done again properly, using as much of the original wood as possible. Even the odd bit of old fuselage skin - the sort of thing that would have been 'skipped' by others - was scarfed into the new regardless of the additional time it took, just to keep as much of the original aircraft as possible.

ATB - I hadn't realised that Blossom was 'optically challenged by 50%' - I thought that she was winking at me from the pages, urging me to nip back time and sh@g her. You have now spoit it for me you rotter!

Damien B - Thanks for the congrats. RIAT - I offered the aircraft for the flying display - flown either by me or a proper pilot. However, they wanted it only in the static.

No matter - I shall have some fun - and so will whichever mate of mine draws the straw - flying the 2 aircraft in and out, glugging beer and scoffing some nice tucker - oh, and getting paid for it too!. Well, I suppose someone has to do it....!

Great to see your posts guys - keep them coming!

HP
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Old 30th Jan 2003, 07:21
  #126 (permalink)  
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There's a Hawk Trainer in civil scheme in this http://www.beney.org.uk/woburn.wmv , and a Gemini! And a few Austers. . . . .

I recognise some of the trees!
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Old 30th Jan 2003, 13:56
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MMMmmiles more

A message forwarded to me from Barry Clay, an aircraft enthusiast but a non-PPruner -

'Peter and others following the current Miles theme-

I have just scanned through the section on historic Miles aircraft types and found it very interesting reading and would like to add the following -

Yes G-AFBS Magister was indeed owned and operated by dear old Dick Emery,in fact he even used it in a few of those really old black and white oh so English films ! the interesting thing about this particular aeroplane is that it was painted in the usual trainer camouflage with yellow undersides but retained its British civil registration instead of its impressed serial BB661,after a spell with the Skyfame museum at Staverton it passed onto the Imperial War museum collection at Duxford where as far as I know it still exists amongst the collection.(It does! HP)

With regard to the Miles Marathon and if any of these exist,sadly no,although they were last used by Derby Aviation (the former company before British Midland came along under Ron Paines leadership). All of these airframes were scrapped off apart from one small item,an upper fuselage section used as a railway shelter on a preserved railway at Market Bosworth. I have a photograph somewhere of this small and fairly insignificent item in my files somewhere,it existed at least in the eighties.
Now on a more delicate subject of the Miles aeroplanes currently stored in the old hangar the far side of the Cosford museum,this is a very sad state of affairs with preservation to the airframes not getting any better,sitting on their flat tyres with a floor covered in bird droppings and branches.
Despite attempts to save these aircraft they cannot be touched (for reasons that can't be posted here - HP),a very sad and awkward state of affairs.
I am sure if they could ever be released then someone would extend the loving care they deserve and get them flying again,although the Miles Monarch G-AFRZ would need extensive work to get her airworthy,almost new wood throughout,nothing that Skysport Engineering or Speedwell Sailplanes could not tackle with confidence without a little money being thrown at such a project.'

--------------------

Yes, it would indeed be wonderful to see these 2 important aircraft saved.

2 Monarchs (Bob M and Ian D) and a Witney Straight all suffering in less than ideal storage yet not for sale and no discussion even possible in this pursuit.

Isn't that such a shame...??

HP
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Old 30th Jan 2003, 17:34
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Cool V1075

Sorry I'm a bit late joining the discussion, but on this chilly snow-ridden January evening I thought I'd just air a little reminiscence of mine from a couple of summers ago...

V1075 (complete with Hairyplane (I presume) and A N Other) had dropped into Skysport on a gorgeous warm Wednesday evening for a cuppa and a chat with the Guv'nor. BeauMan pitches up to do his Wednesday evening stint on Bristol bits and spies a lovely little yellow thing out on the grass, clearly getting ready to go.

Curiosity always gets the better of me at Skysport, so I wandered over and stood spellbound as Hairyplane hand swung V1075's prop into life (it took a few goes, I don't think she wanted to leave just yet), and then taxied out onto the strip. She took off into a still blue sky, followed by a wonderfully lit flypast and a climb out and departure into the sunset. Lovely.

So thank you for that Hairyplane, it was lovely to watch, and on a chilly January evening the memory of it has reminded me what summer's all about.
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Old 30th Jan 2003, 19:25
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I don't believvvvvve it

G-AFBS is featured in the clip I posted
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Old 31st Jan 2003, 00:15
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Many thanks, Vintage, for the clip. Seeing 'FBS again gave me goose bumps!

And Barry, thanks for confirming that she used to belong to Dick Emery. Didn't think I was dreaming it all up.

Hairy, what difference does an eye make - just adds to the attraction. Seems to have been caused by an overreaction to the then new smallpox jabs.
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Old 31st Jan 2003, 19:20
  #131 (permalink)  
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Summer evening in a MMMmmmagister

Hi Beaman,

So you'r one of those clever bugg@rs who slaves away on wednesday evenings restoring Tims Beafighter?

I have been there on many occasions glugging beer in the house when you've been working out there in the chuffing cold or Pi@@ing rain.

I hope that one day your efforts will be rewarded by seeing air under the wheels once more??

Please come and make yourself known to me at OW on one of the display days - get there early - and I'll take you for a chug around the houses in the Maggie. My pleasure. You deserve it.

Fear not about the recalcitrant Gippo - it was probably finger trouble on my part - the engine in it is an absolute jewel. THey are always a bit tricky when they are warm.

Still - I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

HP
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Old 1st Feb 2003, 03:09
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ATCO

Great clip.

Was that HP in the cockpit explaining to an ethralled spectator how to fly
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Old 1st Feb 2003, 10:28
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I just spent hours re-reading this thread - what fun! Like a time warp. And Hairy's taken it back to the thirties with his libidinous ravings about MM... (Maxine Miles).

Noticed a photo of the Mohawk in Feb Pilot that just dropped onto my desk. Maybe they cleared up the birdpoop for the shot.

Aerohack, your recollection of the Prentice then hauled himself half out of the cockpit to stand with one leg on the wing root, one hand steadying himself on the windscreen frame while the other polished vigorously at the 'screen with a bit of rag I half experienced Monday on the return to Shoreham in the Yak. The setting sun was to stbd (natch) and Tom needed to do the housework, so he set to with a duster on both side panels. I almost expected him to climb out to do the w/s, but he left it at that.
What I found very strange was the intercom button on the Mig-type sideways throttle. Coupla times got a thwack as I reached for it at the same time as Tom throttled back (mainly on the ground checks). Got a good look at Brighton's West Pier from all angles....Yak reminded me of a steam train when taxying!

Incidentally, how is Rex Smith obe? Believe he retired from the CAA recently? Knew him well from his time at Kidlington. And his Lordship Waterpark? He was a floatplane buff, wasn't he?!

Nice weekend all
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Old 2nd Feb 2003, 22:18
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MMMmmiles Hawk

Tease me if you will....

I have the serious hots (woof woof!) for a Miles Hawk trainer.

This is a Magister but pre-war, with a slimmer fuselage, Falcon U/C trousers and Falcon tail feathers.

MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!

It has to be the best looking aircraft of all time - next to the Falcon of course....!

Can you imagine how well this would fit in with my Falcon and Magister?? Can you imagine how gorgeous this would look on a warm Sumers day at Old Warden?

Rumour has it that the Brazilian Hawk project - well known to us buffs - might be wending its way to the UK.

Let me in on this pleeeeeaaaase!

Anybody out there with the inside track on this?

I may know more tomorrow.

I'll post as and when I get the info.

However, if anybody out there knows more than I do please shout early!

HP
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Old 3rd Feb 2003, 16:29
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Hairyplane: Spotted this classified ad. from W. S. Shackleton Ltd In the March 1948 issue of the short-lived magazine 'The Light Plane':
"£295. Miles Hawk Major. Only 10 hours since engine and airframe overhaul. Cream and red. Two other similar machines available at the same price.
£295. Miles M.18. One cabin and one open machine available. Both now undergoing C of A and have low hours.
£575. Miles Hawk Speed Six. Under 150 hours since new. Flown by Mr. Tommy Rose, it won last year's Manx Air Derby."

A news item in an earlier issue reports that Gemini G-AJKS was taken across the Atlantic aboard an aircraft carrier of the Royal Canadian Navy for a North American sales tour, and took off from its deck about 20 miles offshore. I know that a Messenger conducted landing trials aboard a makeshift deck set up on a merchant ship, but don't know if it flew off again. If not, 'JKS may have been the only Miles aircraft ever to operate from a ship's deck.
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Old 3rd Feb 2003, 17:23
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Hairyplane,

That'd be very kind of you, and greatly appreciated sir.

I am indeed one of Tim's volunteers; in fact, now the only one, as the other chap has decided to emigrate to France. Tim and I did ask him whether he'd be commuting back of a Wednesday evning, but reluctantly he declined...

As for the old girl herself, she's a big job, as I'm sure you've seen. Her nose thankfully is on a stand which is frequently being shunted around the hangar to accommodate all sorts of wonderful old aeroplanes. I seem to recall both the Maggie and your Falcon being in from time to time, along with such diverse items as a Mosquito fuselage and a Russian spacecraft. Honestly, I must lose a good hour of productivity every Wednesday night just looking to see what gem's Tim's turned up this week.

Talking of the hangar, a quick TV heads up for UK viewers for tonight - Channel 4, 2100hrs, Leonardo's Dream Machines. Tim's chaps build Leonardo's glider. Watch out for the dog chews.
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Old 4th Feb 2003, 12:59
  #137 (permalink)  
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Military Messengers

A forwarded EMail from the Wings Over Warwickshire Website -

I have been discussing the Messenger v Auster for Army Cooperation. The consensus is that politics rather than any fault of the design led to very few military orders for the Messenger.

Barry Clay writes -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Just been researching the military production of the Miles Messenger,it speaks for itself 250 ordered,only 21 actually built,this is the breakdown-

RG327 & RG333 two prototypes built at Woodley.
RH368-378 built at Reading.
RH379-409 Cancelled.
RH420-429 built at Newtownards,Northern Ireland.
RH430-468 Cancelled 01-1944
RH483-525 ''
RH539-580 ''
RH595-635 ''
RH648-680 ''

(RG333 was Monty's Messenger of course...HP)

So why were these aircraft cancelled,and where were the 21 aircraft built for the R.A.F actually based ?'

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me consult The Oracle and post a reply!

HP
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Old 4th Feb 2003, 20:05
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Well, atb1943, your post about Stapleford 23 May 1964 (I was one day short of my first birthday) made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end, since my grandfather had, by that point, owned two of those planes.

He had AIDE in the late 50s, winning the Goodyear trophy in it, and AJYZ which he bought new from Woodley after Handley-Page bought the bits left over from the Miles liquidation. Somewhere recently I saw the original invoice for the plane: I am hoping my mother has not thrown it out with a lot of rubbish!

Anyway, here are a few pix.









Pix are from A J Jackson's amazing photo library

If anyone knows any more history of these planes, I'd be very interested to know.

Last edited by dde0apb; 4th Feb 2003 at 21:03.
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Old 4th Feb 2003, 21:05
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More on Miles, with photos

Just wondering if any of you know any more of the late 50s and 60s history of

G-AKBN : Messenger
G-AJYZ: Messenger
G-AKDK: Gemini - now in a museum in Denmark - apparently available to anyone with money, two Cirrus engines and undercarriage

All of these belonged to my grandfather Walter Bowles, some of whose photos are at http://www.beney.org.uk/personal/oldair.html

And just for luck: here's a lovely one of KBN, taken my John Yoxall.



On another note, you might enjoy G-AECC, Jimmy Rush's Falcon. I spoke to a friend of his widow recently, and gave her a copy of this picture (below)



And finally, how about this? Not strictly a Miles plane, but the winner of a Royal Aero Club design competition for a racing / touring aeroplane. Financed by Nat Somers, and designed by Hugh Kendall, it was the Somers-Kendall SK-1. Fuselage languishes at Breighton, I believe.



Here we have the dinner menu, as defaced by the attendees, for the 1954 Air Racing Dinner, in honour of Harold "Timber" Wood winner of the King's Cup Air Race in AKBO and Miss Freydis Leaf, winner of the Championship.

Towards top right you will note Lettice Curtis, of ATA fame, just about the then Civil Aviation Minister, someone who gained altogether different notoriety a little later.

Fred Dunkerley is top left below Jimmy Rush, and below him AJ Spiller of AKIN fame. Then Nat Somers who raced Geminis, and others whose names I can decipher if you wish.




Now another: Here's Ann Lindbergh in the Miles Mohawk



And finally: the handsome man on the right is my grandpa - anyone know who the man on the left hand side is?



Thanks

Last edited by dde0apb; 4th Feb 2003 at 21:50.
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Old 5th Feb 2003, 07:08
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Many thanks dde, an enrichment indeed. What a pretty little thing the SK1 was! I spotted it somewhere, way back in the 50's or early sixties, registered to a Miss M. Magalow. Wonder why it didn't get further than one off, or did it?

Could the autograph at the bottom of the card be Jacqueline Cochran's?

Not often I cause goose bumps, but happy to oblige!

cheers
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