Winco

It's just been announced on Lincs Fm that 'they' are hopeful that the paperwork will be signed today and the aircraft will leave Waddo tomorrow. By 'they' I am assuming it's those jokers called TVOC or VTS or whatever name they want to go by! I myself am quite hopeful that I will find a large pot of gold at the bottom of my fairy garden this afternoon, the one that I inhabit with gnomes and goblins.

If it is the case that it gets signed today, then it's an even bigger kick in the nuts for the supporters than before. All this for the sake of a day or two and just a modicum of thought, unbelievable.

My personal feeling is that it's just another publicity stunt and the paperwork won't be complete and 558 will remain at Waddington for a while yet. We will see. Spoke to the organisers last night and they told me that the number of complaints that had been received by them was 'significant' I guess that's a diplomatic way of saying lots.

Lets hope it buggers off back to Bruntingthorpe and stays there. Unless of course we can find a spare Chief Exec, Senior Engineering person, Admin Director and anyone else, who can muster more than a couple of brain cells between them all and run this project properly. The current lot clearly cannot. Infact the the current management couldn't manage the proverbial pi$$ up, even if they all lived in the brewery!!

Why won't the trustees get rid of them all and lets start again?

TW

staplefordheli

Well it was that good a weekend that BBC East Midland Today never even mentioned Waddo on todays lunchtime news, despite record crowds.
I get the impression the Vulcan saga has p!!! them off so much now that they wont comment on it either way now.

Real shame as if you look at the Tornado A1 steam loco project that cost more than TVOC to build from new and all the hurdles and paperwork that is needed to run steam on the main line today and yet all achieved, and not one negative story or begging letter saying it was being shipped to the states or else!"!

Real shame that the RAF couldn't have kept her running under BBMF type umbrella with some financial support structure in place.
still I suppose once they got rid of her, that was it

Cant ever see any other "complex" types being entertained for private preservation again and god knows what the CEO of the companies sullied by this sorry affair are thinking now. Not the best PR is it

forget

The ‘paperwork’ is hardly likely to be a renewed Permit to Fly and C of A for airshow displays. From what I’ve read here the CAA required materials sampling from XM603. Presumably that hasn’t even been started. In which case the ‘paperwork’, if it ever is signed this side of Xmas, will be a One-Off permit back to Bruntingthorpe.

Dr Pleming will certainly go down in aviation history. Orville and Wilbur would probably have stuck with bicycles if they could have foreseen 558.

kiwibrit

I have been puzzled by the suggestion that the permit to fly could be nodded through whilst the outcome of the sampling was pending, too.

side salad

No more money from me, not until changes at the top are made.

SFCC

I trust that the Waddington Airshow Committee haven't paid this shower of shoite for displaying?

chev1

The member of ground crew I spoke to who's name I will keep to myself said that getting 558 out of Waddo wasn't a problem and that they would simply call it a "test flight". It sounds like some of the spannermen are falling into the way of the management, sad really cos they had earned a great deal of respect for the work they had done. Mind you I did notice a few posers with black overalls swanning around 558 and ignoring the crowd as well. Sadly that's me done with 558, shame really because she was part of my life for 7 years and was I actually quite chuffed when she was back in the air, oh well.

kwh

...elsewhere this week? If so, and if this is as wildly unrealistic/impossible/fanciful/incredible as people here seem to think it is, then what would you say to somebody wooed to one of these airshows and convinced to part with cash on the promise that the Vulcan will display, unless something unforseen prevents it? And if they went to the police, alleging that they had been defrauded out of their gate money because TVOC knew or should have known a week in advance that they were never going to be allowed to display as long as they had holes in their backsides, what defence would you mount for TVOC?

Nopax,thanx

Chev

You can only fly with a Permit in place. The usual procedure is to get a Permit to Test as a first step, usually following restoration or importation. A Permit to Test is also needed if an aircraft has had a Permit to Fly expired for more than 12 months. If 558's Permit has run out, they need another one. It will not get air under its wheels any other way, except on jacks in the hangar.

No matter how much fuss there is, the CAA will not let the aircraft fly until they are satisfied. They have only their own regulations to satisfy, commercial interests and public feeling do not enter into the equation.

Trust me, I know.........

mark36

Vulcan Permit renewal Update


Just posted on the official site.Make up you own minds.
Mods if not allowed please remove


Edit: It's font size is almost unreadable. See below that I have taken it from the size and re-sized it.

hurn

As I said earlier in the thread, surely Marshalls must have some responsibility for this. And so it proved.

I just hope this can be sorted without further fuss and we can move on.

andrewmcharlton

Doesn't that just say it all. Take someone else's word for it that we can get around doing it on time despite knowing for months and still "launching" without any clue it would be declined.

Imbeciles.

The sole raison d'etre is to fly at air displays and their funding requirements, however true or otherwise they are, are based on being at said airshows.

I can probably write the script now for the next pass the hat appeal.

pulse1

It doesn't look very hopeful for Yeovilton next Saturday then?

Winco

When your sole job in life is to ensure that your aircraft is ready for display at an airshow, you check, check and check again that all of the necessary paperwork is in place and everything is OK (just like Pleming told us on the TV last week) How wrong can you be?

It would appear from the statement that the fault lies squarely with MA (no big surprise there then) but the responsibility still lies with Pleming and his bunch of chroney directors for not checking for themselves with the CAA that everything was on course and running fine. What else does Pleming have to do for God's sake? Does he make the teas? wash the pots? It's his number one job and priority and he failed, miserably!

It doesn't look good for Yeovilton next week, and if it fails to get to and display at fairford, it must surely signal the end of the project. How can it survive with such losses of income? One thing is certain, the British public will not support it financially ever again under this management.

Pleming, thank you for your apology. It's a shame it's taken you only 4 days to do it, but for what it's worth (and it's not worth much) thank you anyway. As forget says, you will certainly go down in aviation history for sure. Unfortunately, it won't be for anything good.

And to airsound, who has gone very deep and very silent: where are you?
What is your latest defence strategy for the good doctor?? or have you at last seen the light maybe?

chev 1
It simply shows the lack of understanding on the part of those groundcrew who think you just take an aircraft, without a P to F and get it airborne under the guise of a 'test flight' - what rubbish. You cannot, FACT. It just shows what a bunch of amatures they really are.

The Winco

NutLoose

This Phleming, the Engineering Director and the Chief Engineer , indeed the rest of the managment team need to resign, Again they are blaming other people for their incompetance, they knew it was not going to fly yet did nothing to disuade or inform those that were paiying out hard cash in the current climate to travel to the show just to see it fly when they knew it would not happen, they then should go.

I have full support for the rest of the people that give their time for free, and the engineers that work on the aircraft.

BUT the management and Chief Engineer should resign!

There one role is to ensure this aircraft funded by the public to displaay to the public at shows is available to do this, neither of which has happened on more than one occasion. You have more chance of Amy Whitehouse turning up to perform than the Vulcan under the management of these peoiple.

airsound

Thank you, Mark 36, for publishing Robert Pleming’s message.
Vulcan To The Sky News
That message was, of course, published with the approval of Marshall Aerospace. It confirms what Eddie Forrester said on Saturday, quoted in danohagan’s post #2508.
What Pobert Pleming’s message does is to add more substance to that. In particular, he says
(My bold)

In simple terms, Marshall Aerospace is , effectively, the operator of XH558. VTST can only do anything to the aircraft, including fly it, on direct authorisation from Marshall Aerospace.

Basically, that was what the many VTST people at Waddington, volunteers and staff, were telling anyone who wanted to know. As I tried to explain in my post #2510, I was part of that extremely difficult operation. And over the whole of the weekend, there were very few air show visitors who didn’t feel sympathetic towards the whole sad situation once they had been told the proper facts. The only thing the team wasn’t doing was mentioning Marshalls by name.

This now demonstrates that many people on this and other forums, who hide behind a cloak of anonymity, have grossly misrepresented the actions of the VTST team. Many posters have been particularly critical, not to say insulting, to Robert Pleming and Andrew Edmondson. I look forward to seeing those posters’ retractions and apologies in their next posts.


sean
airsound
commentator for Vulcan XH558

forget

I say again ........

Responsibility. Robert Pleming and Andrew Edmondson.

Sook

That's just an unfortunate coincidence. The weather required for the test flying was always going to be more likely in the summer and that means the Permit to Fly was issued in the summer months. I doubt it was planned that way.

jindabyne

airsound,

I disagree. If you choose to PM/e-mail me, I'll tell you why - my views aren't allowable on this forum.

NutLoose

No retraction here, they allowed people to travel to the show and waste their money knowing full well that the Permit would have expired, end of the day they are in charge of this whole farce and had the opportunity to put it right via the media, the also fund Marshalls work to the aircraft ( who hold the Design Authority) and it was up to them to ensure the Aircraft was both available and ready for the display season, the one reason they are employed by the public donations to carry out....... THIS THEY FAILED TO DO and as such should go and a proper management be put in place that can and will have the competance to do the task in hand..

"The level of detail required by CAA and the need for endorsement by BAE Systems meant that this could not be provided without significant additional work."

then that work should have been carried out..... It is not as if they were unaware of what was reqd and when it was required to be done by!

Why has this all drivel been relayed by some person that stands on a dias with a mike in his hand and not by the senior management of the VVTG ?

are they scared to meet and speak to the people that employ them, namely the Joe Public.........

RESIGN!