Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
Eddief
Eddief
First of all, many thanks for your critically timed financial support in helping the Vulcan do what we all want to see her do-FLY.
However, I am one of the 10000+ who helped keep her in the air this year, and I will not continue to donate to this project with the current management team in charge.
The longer DrP and his team preside over the sort of disaster which happened last weekend, the more the credibility of the project suffers. I ask you, how are you going to attract the new sponsorship and donations required to keep the aircraft in the air year on year when something as critical for the business a PtF renewal is as badly botched as this was?
What this project requires now is new leadership, with someone who has the degree of credibility required to restore public confidence and bring in the cash needed to keep 558 in the air.
Anybody got DT's phone number?
First of all, many thanks for your critically timed financial support in helping the Vulcan do what we all want to see her do-FLY.
However, I am one of the 10000+ who helped keep her in the air this year, and I will not continue to donate to this project with the current management team in charge.
The longer DrP and his team preside over the sort of disaster which happened last weekend, the more the credibility of the project suffers. I ask you, how are you going to attract the new sponsorship and donations required to keep the aircraft in the air year on year when something as critical for the business a PtF renewal is as badly botched as this was?
What this project requires now is new leadership, with someone who has the degree of credibility required to restore public confidence and bring in the cash needed to keep 558 in the air.
Anybody got DT's phone number?
So could it be that the owners of XH558 asked BAe Systems some time ago if they could have some bits from XM603 for Destructive Testing when it got scrapped. BAe did not have a problem with that for all they wanted to do was to get rid of a dead Vulcan covered in green gunge parked outside their Woodford empire and the bits would have been going to the scrapyard anyway.
Then BAe discovered that it was going to cost serious money to scrap XM603 so they were suddenly not in a hurry and the bits required for testing are now not going to be available for some time (unless someone meets the bill).
I last drove past XM603 on 23 June and it was still in one piece albeit looking quite sad.
Someone should have seen this coming.
Then BAe discovered that it was going to cost serious money to scrap XM603 so they were suddenly not in a hurry and the bits required for testing are now not going to be available for some time (unless someone meets the bill).
I last drove past XM603 on 23 June and it was still in one piece albeit looking quite sad.
Someone should have seen this coming.
Eddief, many thanks for all your exceptional support for '558. Without your invaluable and amazing generosity, the aircraft would never have flown this year - and probably would never do so again.
Thank you also for the communiques you've posted on the VTTS website - everyone must surely appreciate the clarity and transparency of those communications. I hope that VTST will hoist on board the lessons of last weekend as they have lost an enormous amount of goodwill from many supporters.
But they'll still get my monthly direct debit, nonetheless.
I hope that 558 will be at Yeovilton this weekend - and thanks once again for your exceptional support!!
Thank you also for the communiques you've posted on the VTTS website - everyone must surely appreciate the clarity and transparency of those communications. I hope that VTST will hoist on board the lessons of last weekend as they have lost an enormous amount of goodwill from many supporters.
But they'll still get my monthly direct debit, nonetheless.
I hope that 558 will be at Yeovilton this weekend - and thanks once again for your exceptional support!!
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Eddief, many thanks for all your exceptional support for '558. Without your invaluable and amazing generosity, the aircraft would never have flown this year - and probably would never do so again.
Thank you also for the communiques you've posted on the VTTS website - everyone must surely appreciate the clarity and transparency of those communications. I hope that VTST will hoist on board the lessons of last weekend as they have lost an enormous amount of goodwill from many supporters.
But they'll still get my monthly direct debit, nonetheless.
I hope that 558 will be at Yeovilton this weekend - and thanks once again for your exceptional support!
Thank you also for the communiques you've posted on the VTTS website - everyone must surely appreciate the clarity and transparency of those communications. I hope that VTST will hoist on board the lessons of last weekend as they have lost an enormous amount of goodwill from many supporters.
But they'll still get my monthly direct debit, nonetheless.
I hope that 558 will be at Yeovilton this weekend - and thanks once again for your exceptional support!
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I still quite can't believe the show weekend has passed with no vulcan. Thursday was so full of promise. The pain the base personnel and the Airshow office must have had to endure? I know people on the station who have been abused by the public for the no-show.The VTTS have damaged the reputation of the Stn, the Air show office and the RAF. There is a pile of embarrasing metal taking up operational space and personally I can't wait to see it leave and not come back.
I did hear VTTS even had the front to ask the RAF for hangarage!
nice try VTTS. You could really have made it for us enthusiasts of the plane, but instead you screwed it up for everyone.
Branson. Please buy the plane for a £1 and put in in trust, but have your engineering team run the programme. Stick as many Virgin signs on it as you want but for god's sake fly it professionally for us.
We will never forgive VTTS for this.
Why?
They never admitted to the late screw up and kept quiet and flew in pretending all was well.
They tried to blame everyone else but themselves.
They failed to inform Waddo, and now leave them babysitting the thing.
They never once apologised.
They still haven't apologised.
Oh yes, they STILL haven't apologised.
Oh. look at their latest website post. They STILL haven't apologised.
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Just watched the video of the 2008 show.
A perfect weekend of displays, As it should be when most of us J public pay 21.00 to go into Waddo!!!
Makes the 2009 show a 'Shambles' thru and thru!!!
The 2009 show 'Should' have displayed at the 'Minimum':
1 Vc10
1 Herc
1 Merlin
1 Seaking
1 Harrier or Tornado
And other possible displays available dependant on theatre op's.
As a previous poster said - 'They didn't even make an effort to even ground run or taxi XH558!!!
That would have at least shown the Paying J public that they were 'Genuinly' sorry about the whole state of affairs??
(I don't know what the surviving 'Old Boys' thought of it all)
I know what I think F**k!!!
The 2009 show is a show we 'The J Public' will never forget!!!
Enough said My rant over.
Try again in 2010.
A perfect weekend of displays, As it should be when most of us J public pay 21.00 to go into Waddo!!!
Makes the 2009 show a 'Shambles' thru and thru!!!
The 2009 show 'Should' have displayed at the 'Minimum':
1 Vc10
1 Herc
1 Merlin
1 Seaking
1 Harrier or Tornado
And other possible displays available dependant on theatre op's.
As a previous poster said - 'They didn't even make an effort to even ground run or taxi XH558!!!
That would have at least shown the Paying J public that they were 'Genuinly' sorry about the whole state of affairs??
(I don't know what the surviving 'Old Boys' thought of it all)
I know what I think F**k!!!
The 2009 show is a show we 'The J Public' will never forget!!!
Enough said My rant over.
Try again in 2010.
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Quite right BYALPHA
A ground run would've at least done some pr good.
I'll still give my money, but this just looks like the same old story. Bad/amateur management. Would not be allowed in my org.
I noticed the crowd reaction to the announcement at Biggin on the Sunday, I'm sure many would've been mollified by some of that awesome noise.
Glad I'm doing 2 days of RIAT..... ( & bothered to go to BZZ the other day
)
A ground run would've at least done some pr good.
I'll still give my money, but this just looks like the same old story. Bad/amateur management. Would not be allowed in my org.
I noticed the crowd reaction to the announcement at Biggin on the Sunday, I'm sure many would've been mollified by some of that awesome noise.
Glad I'm doing 2 days of RIAT..... ( & bothered to go to BZZ the other day
)
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A ground run would've at least done some pr good.
I'm considering myself very lucky to have been at Cosford last month...at least I'm one of the few to have seen it so far this year!!
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So just to clarify, the current position of TVOC, reading between the lines of the press release (because they aren't being explicit) is that they knew nothing and didn't understand any of the issues surrounding the Permits, and that the deferred in all these matters to Marshalls who understand them, and were thus shocked when it all went wrong.
Taking this strictly at face value, TVOC are publicly admitting that they don't know what they are doing, are they not? And that they are vulnerable to either being taken for a ride by, or (as allegedly in this case) let down by a supplier because they don't know what they are doing...
If TVOC are publically announcing that operating the Vulcan on the civil register is all too complicated for the TVOC operational people to understand and beyond their competence and experience to cope with, then why are individuals still holding down jobs that they are unable to fulfill the requirements of?
I thought the original idea was that TVOC was going to be a little one-plane selc-contained 'airline', doing its own operations and maintenance in its little shed at Brunty. Presumably on the evidence of TVOC's competence from this last weekend we can all be thankful that the maintenance is still in the hands of Marshalls...
Taking this strictly at face value, TVOC are publicly admitting that they don't know what they are doing, are they not? And that they are vulnerable to either being taken for a ride by, or (as allegedly in this case) let down by a supplier because they don't know what they are doing...
If TVOC are publically announcing that operating the Vulcan on the civil register is all too complicated for the TVOC operational people to understand and beyond their competence and experience to cope with, then why are individuals still holding down jobs that they are unable to fulfill the requirements of?
I thought the original idea was that TVOC was going to be a little one-plane selc-contained 'airline', doing its own operations and maintenance in its little shed at Brunty. Presumably on the evidence of TVOC's competence from this last weekend we can all be thankful that the maintenance is still in the hands of Marshalls...
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Some got seriously scarred by last weekend's screw-up but most of them now appreciate that 'black & white' rarely applies to complex project-management & decades old aircraft
). The operator has responsibility to directly oversee every aspect of the operation, including any delegated or sub-contracted activities such as maintenance or continuing airworthiness management.
Always.
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As a long term air show attendee, I would like to add my two cents worth to the debate.
Because of a serious illlness, I am no longer able to attend airshows as I can no longer enjoy strolling round the ground displays. I have enjoyed airshows from the fifties - starting with Turnhouse in 1954, then Farnborough in 1957 and so on through the years. For many years, I was an active member of the Canadian Warplane Heritage and visited airshows annually in Hamilton, Ontario; London, Ontario and at Toronto waterfront.
In short, I know airshows!!
This year my wife treated me top a birthday surprise. We were to do Waddington first class!!
We flew in by helicopter from Newark Air Musuem and were wined and dined at the Lord Trenchard pavilion, where the hospitality was superb, and then flew back to Newark. How superior I felt looking down on the traffic jams that I am usually tied up in!!
So far so good. Now for the actual airshow.
It was probably the WORST air show I have ever attended.
Apart from the Vulcan fiasco, the display was very poor. There was very little modern air force equipment from either the Royal Air Force, or the NATO countries. Surely they are not all in Afghanistan or Iraq? No F15s, F16s or F18s. There were too many aerobatic teams - some of dubious quality, and as a previous writer has remarked, the aircraft were very high and far away.
The grouind display was poorly laid out with the aircraft on display scattered haphazardly between the hangars, stands and funfairs
Oh, for the good old days when there was a lineup of static aircraft and a separate display of display aircraft.
The sound system was appalling - a non stop barrage of very loud music.
At least the sound was closed down for the last Lancaster/Spitfire/Hurricane
flypast (according the commentator, at the request of persons who were recording on camcorders) I want to HEAR Merlins not rock music, otherwise I would have gone to Glastonbury.
The promise of TWO Vulcans and a Concorde will not drag me back to Waddington
Because of a serious illlness, I am no longer able to attend airshows as I can no longer enjoy strolling round the ground displays. I have enjoyed airshows from the fifties - starting with Turnhouse in 1954, then Farnborough in 1957 and so on through the years. For many years, I was an active member of the Canadian Warplane Heritage and visited airshows annually in Hamilton, Ontario; London, Ontario and at Toronto waterfront.
In short, I know airshows!!
This year my wife treated me top a birthday surprise. We were to do Waddington first class!!
We flew in by helicopter from Newark Air Musuem and were wined and dined at the Lord Trenchard pavilion, where the hospitality was superb, and then flew back to Newark. How superior I felt looking down on the traffic jams that I am usually tied up in!!
So far so good. Now for the actual airshow.
It was probably the WORST air show I have ever attended.
Apart from the Vulcan fiasco, the display was very poor. There was very little modern air force equipment from either the Royal Air Force, or the NATO countries. Surely they are not all in Afghanistan or Iraq? No F15s, F16s or F18s. There were too many aerobatic teams - some of dubious quality, and as a previous writer has remarked, the aircraft were very high and far away.
The grouind display was poorly laid out with the aircraft on display scattered haphazardly between the hangars, stands and funfairs
Oh, for the good old days when there was a lineup of static aircraft and a separate display of display aircraft.
The sound system was appalling - a non stop barrage of very loud music.
At least the sound was closed down for the last Lancaster/Spitfire/Hurricane
flypast (according the commentator, at the request of persons who were recording on camcorders) I want to HEAR Merlins not rock music, otherwise I would have gone to Glastonbury.
The promise of TWO Vulcans and a Concorde will not drag me back to Waddington
Last edited by Gordon Fraser; 9th Jul 2009 at 18:40.
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I still quite can't believe the show weekend has passed with no vulcan. Thursday was so full of promise. The pain the base personnel and the Airshow office must have had to endure? I know people on the station who have been abused by the public for the no-show.The VTTS have damaged the reputation of the Stn, the Air show office and the RAF. There is a pile of embarrasing metal taking up operational space and personally I can't wait to see it leave and not come back.
I did hear VTTS even had the front to ask the RAF for hangarage!
nice try VTTS. You could really have made it for us enthusiasts of the plane, but instead you screwed it up for everyone.
Branson. Please buy the plane for a £1 and put in in trust, but have your engineering team run the programme. Stick as many Virgin signs on it as you want but for god's sake fly it professionally for us.
We will never forgive VTTS for this.
Why?
They never admitted to the late screw up and kept quiet and flew in pretending all was well.
They tried to blame everyone else but themselves.
They failed to inform Waddo, and now leave them babysitting the thing.
They never once apologised.
They still haven't apologised.
Oh yes, they STILL haven't apologised.
Oh. look at their latest website post. They STILL haven't apologised.
I don't think the reputation of the station has been damaged has it? surely people are intelligent enough to know it's not don to Waddington.
The reasons for the late anouncment were given, not saying i agree but they were to be fair stuck between a rock and a hard place.
As fro branson buying the plane, well thats realy rather funny! he would have to shell out considerably more than a quid and it is in trust already
and besides i don't think Branson is into woodwork is he?
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I don't think the reputation of the station has been damaged has it? surely people are intelligent enough to know it's not don to Waddington
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Afraid i've got to agree.
Whether you like it or not Lincolnshire is the home to the Vulcan and the same with the Lancaster and the media,organisers play on this fact.
Waddo Airshow has been pretty dire for a few years now but it won't stop people from attending as most of them are not aviation enthusiasts but just looking for a good day out and trust me round here they're few and far between.The Vulcan is still news at the moment and just makes the show that much more interesting and even non aviation people can relate to it.For how much longer if any more issues like last weekend occur is anyones guess.
Whether you like it or not Lincolnshire is the home to the Vulcan and the same with the Lancaster and the media,organisers play on this fact.
Waddo Airshow has been pretty dire for a few years now but it won't stop people from attending as most of them are not aviation enthusiasts but just looking for a good day out and trust me round here they're few and far between.The Vulcan is still news at the moment and just makes the show that much more interesting and even non aviation people can relate to it.For how much longer if any more issues like last weekend occur is anyones guess.
Some activity around 558 this afternoon - car, transit van and an apu; was hopefully might see her depart (in a good way - nice to see her fly etc. not get rid of her!) but alas to no avail. After all that has been said, do hope she flies at Yeovilton,when all said and done, we all want the same thing - to see this beautiful bird grace the skies!
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An update on the Vulcan to the Sky website has been posted:
Permit Update
08 July 2009 - Robert Pleming
The draft report has been delivered to BAE Systems, who have requested a number of minor alterations. The revised (final) report with a covering letter from BAE Systems should be with CAA tomorrow for their consideration.
Therefore, the chances of flying at Yeovilton are 'fair' - (not guaranteed but by no means out of the question either).
We will update just as soon as we are certain of the position.
08 July 2009 - Robert Pleming
The draft report has been delivered to BAE Systems, who have requested a number of minor alterations. The revised (final) report with a covering letter from BAE Systems should be with CAA tomorrow for their consideration.
Therefore, the chances of flying at Yeovilton are 'fair' - (not guaranteed but by no means out of the question either).
We will update just as soon as we are certain of the position.
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News Update – Thursday 9th July 2009
A key conclusion from the reaction to the cancellation of the Waddington displays is that VTST did not have an effective and timely-enough way of telling our supporters what was happening.
When the decision was made at midnight on Friday 2nd July to cancel the following day’s display, whilst the airshow organisers and local radio stations were informed, there was no mechanism in place to instantly update the website.
From today, any future announcement of a change of plan, for example, the non-appearance of XH558 at an event, will be made not only via an urgent news flash on our website, but also via a message on the XH558 Twitter feed, as well as through conventional media.
We remain very sorry to have caused so much disappointment at Waddington last weekend.
Best Regards,
Robert Pleming
A key conclusion from the reaction to the cancellation of the Waddington displays is that VTST did not have an effective and timely-enough way of telling our supporters what was happening.
When the decision was made at midnight on Friday 2nd July to cancel the following day’s display, whilst the airshow organisers and local radio stations were informed, there was no mechanism in place to instantly update the website.
From today, any future announcement of a change of plan, for example, the non-appearance of XH558 at an event, will be made not only via an urgent news flash on our website, but also via a message on the XH558 Twitter feed, as well as through conventional media.
We remain very sorry to have caused so much disappointment at Waddington last weekend.
Best Regards,
Robert Pleming
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So he issues an apology and still you moan. Seriously, who do you propose to take over?
I don't know Bob P personally, but from what I can gather he's dedicated to the Vulcan. He'd have to be with all the crap that has flown his way over the years.
He could probably double or triple his salary if he walked away or was pushed, but where would that leave the project?
Would anyone come along who would be any better or have the dedication to stick with it through thick and thin?
There seem to be plenty of 'experts' here, but would YOU do the job any better?
Mistakes have been made, we all know that, this latest one comes just when things were starting to get better, but for Gods' sake get over it and move on.
If you don't want to donate any more then that's your prerogative, but be careful what you wish for, because if the witch hunt succeeds then you might find there's no-one willing to take over and no Vulcan flying in the UK anymore.
I don't know Bob P personally, but from what I can gather he's dedicated to the Vulcan. He'd have to be with all the crap that has flown his way over the years.
He could probably double or triple his salary if he walked away or was pushed, but where would that leave the project?
Would anyone come along who would be any better or have the dedication to stick with it through thick and thin?
There seem to be plenty of 'experts' here, but would YOU do the job any better?
Mistakes have been made, we all know that, this latest one comes just when things were starting to get better, but for Gods' sake get over it and move on.
If you don't want to donate any more then that's your prerogative, but be careful what you wish for, because if the witch hunt succeeds then you might find there's no-one willing to take over and no Vulcan flying in the UK anymore.
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Obviously he cannot see the part on most forums that he should quit!
No but he can see where they went wrong on the comunication side of things and will make sure it improves, can we not at least give some credit?
With all these calls for Doc Bob and co to go i was wondering who would replace them? Amid all the calls i havent seen a single mention of a replacement. Is there anyone to fill the roles? and would anyone actually want the job?