Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
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Originally Posted by peppermint_jam
This rumour has been around for years, I was under the impression that Marshalls came up to look at Wyton with this possibility in mind and decided against it because of the state of the main Runway.
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Originally Posted by iank
I'm not sure I understand the rush to move '558 away from Bruntingthorpe and the 800 tons of spares and the test/service equipment that goes with it! Where ever it all ends up, someone will want paying for hangar rent and storage space and workshop facilities?
Surely the better bet would be for '558 to stay at Bruntinghtorpe and some sort of deal done with the Waltons for use of the hangar space (if that's really vital in taxi only condition) - once it's not a Marshalls outpost i.e. the 'Major' is finished, they should be able to reclaim some of the floorspace or park cars under the thing like they used to!
The issue come Aug 31st is very probably, the Trust failed and will have to dispose of the airframe according to the contract they signed with HLF and within UK company law, which usually means to an organisation or charity with similar aims - '558 club perhaps (it's still a separate entity to the Trust remember!). As Andy said, the other craft at Bruntingthrope are maintained in good (if not excellent) condition albeit taxiable only by enthusiasts and retired technicians - why shouldn't '558 be the same?
Surely the better bet would be for '558 to stay at Bruntinghtorpe and some sort of deal done with the Waltons for use of the hangar space (if that's really vital in taxi only condition) - once it's not a Marshalls outpost i.e. the 'Major' is finished, they should be able to reclaim some of the floorspace or park cars under the thing like they used to!
The issue come Aug 31st is very probably, the Trust failed and will have to dispose of the airframe according to the contract they signed with HLF and within UK company law, which usually means to an organisation or charity with similar aims - '558 club perhaps (it's still a separate entity to the Trust remember!). As Andy said, the other craft at Bruntingthrope are maintained in good (if not excellent) condition albeit taxiable only by enthusiasts and retired technicians - why shouldn't '558 be the same?
I don't know whether there's any "rush" is there?
Having said that, when you're shelling-out £15,000 a week for the hangar/office/storage space, I guess it makes sense to leave as soon as possible, but from what I've been told, this charge might well be due to the actions of one of the Trust members, so when the Trust (hopefully) folds next month, maybe (just maybe) the situation will improve in this respect.
Certainly, the more I learn about this saga, the more I think it might well be a good thing if the Trust does fold, and the project is taken-over either by the 558 Club or a completely new team. By all accounts the Trust no longer have anybody's support and the situation is becoming even more absurd with members of the 558 club trying to seek their own donations and sponsorship deals, in-fighting within the Trust and so on. Clearly, this is no way to run such a project and it might be better to put the whole thing on hold and effectively start again. The only thing that worries me is how HLF might perceive the situation.
As for why 558 shouldn't be mainatined and taxied like the other aircraft at Bruntingthorpe... well it hardly warrants comment! Nice though the aircraft may be, they're in a completely different state to the Vulcan which is almost "as new" now. It would be an act of supreme folly to allow a completely (and hugely expensively) restored aircraft to be left permanently outdoors in this manner.
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Tim,
The club was originally a key part of the project to return '558 to flight - at least that was my understanding back in '93 when I joined and the Waltons were going to do it themselves. The Trust only came along to satisfy Lottery requirements and does now seem to have lost it's direction - that another body exists that can try to raise the money the Trust should have raised is very laudable (and the total's over £100K in pledges in 10 days apparently).
It would be 'criminal' if the aircrafts fate would be to spend the remainder of it's days at Bruntingthorpe taxying every so often, lets hope the HLF project description
is stuck to?
The club was originally a key part of the project to return '558 to flight - at least that was my understanding back in '93 when I joined and the Waltons were going to do it themselves. The Trust only came along to satisfy Lottery requirements and does now seem to have lost it's direction - that another body exists that can try to raise the money the Trust should have raised is very laudable (and the total's over £100K in pledges in 10 days apparently).
It would be 'criminal' if the aircrafts fate would be to spend the remainder of it's days at Bruntingthorpe taxying every so often, lets hope the HLF project description
The programme will acquire Avro Vulcan XH558 for the Nation and restore it to full airworthiness. The aircraft will then be operated to provide maximum access for the public through display flights. Finally, it will be flown to the Imperial War Museum at Duxford, to become the best-preserved aircraft of its era in perpetuity.
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Wyton's runway was re-done far more recently than Scampton's. I cannot say what state it's in, but I would estimate that it would be good enough for 558 - bear in mind that 558 will be operating at light weights, not the max t/o AUW that it used to operate.
Besides, the Nimrods were using it until about 11 years ago, and then it was in very good condition, having been completely refurbished in the mid-80s.
Perhaps a PPruner who uses Wyton would be able to comment?
Besides, the Nimrods were using it until about 11 years ago, and then it was in very good condition, having been completely refurbished in the mid-80s.
Perhaps a PPruner who uses Wyton would be able to comment?
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Originally Posted by iank
Tim,
The club was originally a key part of the project to return '558 to flight - at least that was my understanding back in '93 when I joined and the Waltons were going to do it themselves. The Trust only came along to satisfy Lottery requirements and does now seem to have lost it's direction - that another body exists that can try to raise the money the Trust should have raised is very laudable (and the total's over £100K in pledges in 10 days apparently).
The club was originally a key part of the project to return '558 to flight - at least that was my understanding back in '93 when I joined and the Waltons were going to do it themselves. The Trust only came along to satisfy Lottery requirements and does now seem to have lost it's direction - that another body exists that can try to raise the money the Trust should have raised is very laudable (and the total's over £100K in pledges in 10 days apparently).
Indeed, I'm sure they're doing a good job, it's just another indication that the project is in "melt-down" with various people all doing the same job. Clearly, it can't go on like this and if the Trust is effectively giving-up, then the 558 Club people ought to be able to set-up a new group of people who can hopefully work with the HLF and finish this project. If the Trust are hell-bent on closing-down next month then so be it, but I hope they (or at least some of them) are not going to sour relations with HLF before they depart.
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If anyone from the HLF reads these posts, they'll probably jump for joy. It seems everyone has turned their attention to where should we put the scrap, rather than continuing the effort to get her airborne.
You're practically giving them a get out.!!!!!
Nigel
You're practically giving them a get out.!!!!!
Nigel
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Tim
Can you make a final push as I asked you earlier to get an e-mail setup to THE SUN. Don't forget they usually come down on the side of the masses. If we can get 1000 e-mails to them they could run the story and also get on the case of the HLF.
All the brainwork in the above posts needs channelling into positive actions.
At the end of the day we only need 100,000 tenners.
How many people live in the UK that don't know about the problem????
Nigel
Can you make a final push as I asked you earlier to get an e-mail setup to THE SUN. Don't forget they usually come down on the side of the masses. If we can get 1000 e-mails to them they could run the story and also get on the case of the HLF.
All the brainwork in the above posts needs channelling into positive actions.
At the end of the day we only need 100,000 tenners.
How many people live in the UK that don't know about the problem????
Nigel
Wing and a prayer for £1m
Today's Telegraph Business News back page
"As well as getting Aer Lingus's float to fly, chairman John Sharman is trying to get Vulcan XH558 (pictured) airborne.
The Vulcan to the Sky Trust is looking for £1m to enable a fly-past of Buckingham Palace next year to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Falklands conflict. Six of the bombers flew in the campaign.
Heading the project is ex-Cobham chairman, former Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Knight KCB.
With help from Sharman and ex-president of BAE Systems Sir Charles Masefield, the trust has so far managed to persuade chums at Honeywell, Rolls-Royce and other companies to lend them spare parts but still need funds to restore it to full flight - until it docks in a national museum in 10 years' time.
[email protected]"
"As well as getting Aer Lingus's float to fly, chairman John Sharman is trying to get Vulcan XH558 (pictured) airborne.
The Vulcan to the Sky Trust is looking for £1m to enable a fly-past of Buckingham Palace next year to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Falklands conflict. Six of the bombers flew in the campaign.
Heading the project is ex-Cobham chairman, former Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Knight KCB.
With help from Sharman and ex-president of BAE Systems Sir Charles Masefield, the trust has so far managed to persuade chums at Honeywell, Rolls-Royce and other companies to lend them spare parts but still need funds to restore it to full flight - until it docks in a national museum in 10 years' time.
[email protected]"
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If the HLF realise that £100,000 + has been raised in 10 days there may be more incentive for them to put some additional grant in place, if only to extend our fund raising time for a couple more months.
The more people that know of 558's plight, the more chance we have and a lot of small donations will do the job just as much as one large donation.
The HLF may be prepared to loan the money, provided the fund raising is kept on a high priority.
The HLF are, as Tim keeps saying, custodians of our lottery money and as such should be able to make some sensible decisions on how to use it, based on public opinion.
Nigel
The more people that know of 558's plight, the more chance we have and a lot of small donations will do the job just as much as one large donation.
The HLF may be prepared to loan the money, provided the fund raising is kept on a high priority.
The HLF are, as Tim keeps saying, custodians of our lottery money and as such should be able to make some sensible decisions on how to use it, based on public opinion.
Nigel
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Xh558.
I have read through this thread with interest though at some points tinged with alarm at the discontinuity of thought.
XH558 is currently 70%+ completed, thats not too say it has all it,s bits in place but all are currently either with OEM, repair or overhaul facilities which by the way all but a few require cold hard cash before the job can be considered done.
As for the airframes current and proposed locations and the float about moving it too another location, not really a viable proposition for any number of reasons not least of which is the requirement layed down by the CAA in their original assesment of the projects request for oversight in their aims to gain a C of A for the airframe and the building is a major part of that, as too the major finger pointing exercise over the hangar/office/storage rental contract with the Waltons, well a lot has been said and remains to be said about that and I am sure those responsible will be asked to account for their conduct on the matter in the near future.
The Trustees have and affiliation with the supporters group and they are the direct interface between the various contractors, the CAA and the HLF so in short they stay in situ no matter what happens too the VOC as an entity, however the operating companies employees and assistants will of course have to move out should the company be allowed to fold.
And yes the Supporters are looking independently for funding and sponsors, and yes they are pretty pissed off at certain VOC members actions both past and present, not least of which has been the almost total lack of communication on progress and problems from some areas, but having said all of this, this Bun aint cooked yet and won,t be unless the heats turned up a ways.
HLF contact email address for the East Midlands is [email protected]
Emails should be breif and too the point on the subject please.
XH558 is currently 70%+ completed, thats not too say it has all it,s bits in place but all are currently either with OEM, repair or overhaul facilities which by the way all but a few require cold hard cash before the job can be considered done.
As for the airframes current and proposed locations and the float about moving it too another location, not really a viable proposition for any number of reasons not least of which is the requirement layed down by the CAA in their original assesment of the projects request for oversight in their aims to gain a C of A for the airframe and the building is a major part of that, as too the major finger pointing exercise over the hangar/office/storage rental contract with the Waltons, well a lot has been said and remains to be said about that and I am sure those responsible will be asked to account for their conduct on the matter in the near future.
The Trustees have and affiliation with the supporters group and they are the direct interface between the various contractors, the CAA and the HLF so in short they stay in situ no matter what happens too the VOC as an entity, however the operating companies employees and assistants will of course have to move out should the company be allowed to fold.
And yes the Supporters are looking independently for funding and sponsors, and yes they are pretty pissed off at certain VOC members actions both past and present, not least of which has been the almost total lack of communication on progress and problems from some areas, but having said all of this, this Bun aint cooked yet and won,t be unless the heats turned up a ways.
HLF contact email address for the East Midlands is [email protected]
Emails should be breif and too the point on the subject please.
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I think some of you guys are chipping-in with replies before you've actually read what I and others have said. We're not downbeat at all. I'm not going to repeat everything again (God forbid - you have to say everything a dozen times on Pprune it seems!) but please read what I've said.
As for hounding The Sun, I believe that an attempt has already been made but with no success, so I think we'd have to have something more concrete to shout about before we even tried, otherwise the paper would almost certainly want to know the facts... and seen as both the Trust and HLF patently don't want us to have the facts, we're kinda stuck! But as you can see from the quote I provided from HLF, they're evidently not going to discuss the project with anyone other than the Trust, so I think the only thing we can probably do is to simply wait and see what happens when the Trust wrap-up the project next month. Clearly the supporters club want to keep-on with the project, so it's probably best to let Felicity and her colleagues disappear and let another (more able and enthusiastic) group take-over and re-open negotiations with HLF.
As for hounding The Sun, I believe that an attempt has already been made but with no success, so I think we'd have to have something more concrete to shout about before we even tried, otherwise the paper would almost certainly want to know the facts... and seen as both the Trust and HLF patently don't want us to have the facts, we're kinda stuck! But as you can see from the quote I provided from HLF, they're evidently not going to discuss the project with anyone other than the Trust, so I think the only thing we can probably do is to simply wait and see what happens when the Trust wrap-up the project next month. Clearly the supporters club want to keep-on with the project, so it's probably best to let Felicity and her colleagues disappear and let another (more able and enthusiastic) group take-over and re-open negotiations with HLF.
Will you PLEASE stop telling the Trust and HLF how to conduct their business.
All you are doing is to cloud the issue with veiled innuendos and smartarse "I know more than you" comments.
DO SOMETHING MORE POSITIVE!
All you are doing is to cloud the issue with veiled innuendos and smartarse "I know more than you" comments.
DO SOMETHING MORE POSITIVE!
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Yep, good idea, let's just not get involved and let the saga plod-on like it has done for years until it grinds to a halt next month. Imagine actually giving a damn about the aircraft and £2.7 million of our money, silly me
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Guys
We can do without this internal fighting.
Tim
I am not criticising your ideas, the HLF may be a good way forward and I basically agree with most of what you've said.
However I have contacted the Sun on a couple occasions and they do not seem interested, possibly due to the fact that they haven't been innundated with the same request from a good number of people.
I still believe that they would run the story if enough requests landed on their desks. What can it hurt to try. Why did you set up the HLF e-mail system.? Perhaps you thought that most people are basically lazy, so you had to make it easy for them to just click and done. Well you're probably right on that one too. So I am asking you, Can you please do the same again. You seem to have the base and facility to do it.
We have nothing to lose by trying and everything to gain. Especially if the Sun put their muscle into the HLF too.
Everyone
If Tim can't do this, has anyone else got an operational website where this could be achieved.
Someone else suggested Marshalls and BAe also be contacted. Perhaps again the same setup could get the amount of e-mails needed to make someone take notice.
Nigel
We can do without this internal fighting.
Tim
I am not criticising your ideas, the HLF may be a good way forward and I basically agree with most of what you've said.
However I have contacted the Sun on a couple occasions and they do not seem interested, possibly due to the fact that they haven't been innundated with the same request from a good number of people.
I still believe that they would run the story if enough requests landed on their desks. What can it hurt to try. Why did you set up the HLF e-mail system.? Perhaps you thought that most people are basically lazy, so you had to make it easy for them to just click and done. Well you're probably right on that one too. So I am asking you, Can you please do the same again. You seem to have the base and facility to do it.
We have nothing to lose by trying and everything to gain. Especially if the Sun put their muscle into the HLF too.
Everyone
If Tim can't do this, has anyone else got an operational website where this could be achieved.
Someone else suggested Marshalls and BAe also be contacted. Perhaps again the same setup could get the amount of e-mails needed to make someone take notice.
Nigel
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You'd have to take it up with Gary at Airscene as it's his website through which the email link to HLF can be sent.
However, as I said previously, I think it would be a waste of time at this stage, as we don't know what's going-on. Even if The Sun (or any other paper) took any notice (which I doubt) they'd simply go directly to the Trust and HLF, who would spew-out the same stock reply. That would be the end of it.
I really don't see how we can do anything significant until the Trust has been wound-up and the aircraft's future can be addressed more openly. I guess the most useful thing we could try and establish at this stage, is to whom the aircraft now actually belongs. It must have a legal owner but who does it actually belong to when the Trust finally folds?
However, as I said previously, I think it would be a waste of time at this stage, as we don't know what's going-on. Even if The Sun (or any other paper) took any notice (which I doubt) they'd simply go directly to the Trust and HLF, who would spew-out the same stock reply. That would be the end of it.
I really don't see how we can do anything significant until the Trust has been wound-up and the aircraft's future can be addressed more openly. I guess the most useful thing we could try and establish at this stage, is to whom the aircraft now actually belongs. It must have a legal owner but who does it actually belong to when the Trust finally folds?
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I see UKAR is drifting-off into the realms of nonsense yet again. If somebody gets a chance, maybe they could add something to their Vulcan thread and point-out what a load of rubbish it is, none of which is doing the project any good at all. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to access the site (seems I didn't suck-up to the moderators enough - oops!)
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Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
I really don't see how we can do anything significant until the Trust has been wound-up and the aircraft's future can be addressed more openly. I guess the most useful thing we could try and establish at this stage, is to whom the aircraft now actually belongs. It must have a legal owner but who does it actually belong to when the Trust finally folds?
If upon the winding up or dissolution of the Company there shall remain, after the satisfaction of all its debts and liabilities, any property whatsoever, the same shall not be paid to or distributed among the members of the Company but shall be given or transferred to a charitable institution or institutions having objects similar to the objects of the Company...
Good news
A smidgeon of good news from the meeja front. BBC Breakfast (BBC1 0600-0915) is planning to do a piece from Bruntingthorpe tomorrow Wednesday. As ever, there are no guarantees it will happen, because a big story could always push us off the running order - but they are planning to take their kit to Brunters first thing. Once it's there, they'll probably use it!
You'll probably see Dr Rob Pleming - he's on temporary furlough from hospital.
airsound
You'll probably see Dr Rob Pleming - he's on temporary furlough from hospital.
airsound