Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
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If the project were a football club, then "we", the "fans" would have been demanding the "manager's" head by now. And the "club" would almost certainly have got rid of the person(s) in question and brought in someone else in a bid to improve "results"...
Maybe a lame analogy to draw, but certainly a thought... A new broom at the top would perhaps give the project fresh impetus?
Maybe a lame analogy to draw, but certainly a thought... A new broom at the top would perhaps give the project fresh impetus?
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Wasn't the trustees message in the last newsletter and the HLF comments the dreaded "vote of confidence" ?.
Hopefully HLF will grant a stay and impose some conditions on it that keep them and the supporters happy. Fingers crossed.
Why don't we see if we can get Mr Dickinson to donate a track for paid download to raise some money ?
Hopefully HLF will grant a stay and impose some conditions on it that keep them and the supporters happy. Fingers crossed.
Why don't we see if we can get Mr Dickinson to donate a track for paid download to raise some money ?
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If you pledge to the Vulcan 558 Club, and they call up the pledge you can pay them over a 6 month period. Worth a thought.
Major players are reviewing the project, one such is a very popular camera and photocopying company.
Major players are reviewing the project, one such is a very popular camera and photocopying company.
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Just for reference, I'm still monitoring progress on the saga, but i don't think there's any point in getting involved with any campaigns or anything like that, as it now looks like there are already too many people doing this already. I congratulate Airsound for his efforts, but I wonder whether it's a good idea to have people such as himself plus Pleming and Irwin (and maybe some others) all chasing different people (or worse still, the same people) for money or publicity.
Surely, it would be better if all of the people involved could appoint one person to do the job, otherwise it just gives the impression to potential sponsors that the set-up is too "amateurish" to take seriously. Likewise, I understand a PR company has now been appointed to tackle the job (although no word as to who they are, and if they're likely to be any good) but if this is indeed the case, then it would be counter-productive for anyone else to be doing their job at the same time.
My chief concern was the HLF's input, as regardless of all the admirable work that is being done to seek more donations, it's clear that only HLF are capable of supporting the project sufficiently to get the aircraft back into the air. From the information they've given me, they appear to be quite prepared to look at the provision of more money, but at the same time they also seem reluctant to discuss their views. They tell me that the matter is between them and the project managers which is fair enough, but you'd think that when nearly £3million of Lottery money is involved, it's also something that we all have a right to share?!
Oh well, I can only wish everyone involved the very best of luck - I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!
Surely, it would be better if all of the people involved could appoint one person to do the job, otherwise it just gives the impression to potential sponsors that the set-up is too "amateurish" to take seriously. Likewise, I understand a PR company has now been appointed to tackle the job (although no word as to who they are, and if they're likely to be any good) but if this is indeed the case, then it would be counter-productive for anyone else to be doing their job at the same time.
My chief concern was the HLF's input, as regardless of all the admirable work that is being done to seek more donations, it's clear that only HLF are capable of supporting the project sufficiently to get the aircraft back into the air. From the information they've given me, they appear to be quite prepared to look at the provision of more money, but at the same time they also seem reluctant to discuss their views. They tell me that the matter is between them and the project managers which is fair enough, but you'd think that when nearly £3million of Lottery money is involved, it's also something that we all have a right to share?!
Oh well, I can only wish everyone involved the very best of luck - I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!
Tim, whilst I concur with your view that too many cooks might spoilt the broth, at this stage it does at least show the level of commitment and enthusiasm which is out there.
However, once the funding to continue the programme has been secured, then a more professional PR company would indeed be A Good Thing. Robert, Felicity and the enthusiasts have put in an enormous level of effort, but there now needs to be a dedicated PR team involved.
I see 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space has flogged six dozen EuropHoons to the Saudis - perhaps he might now be persuaded to "stump oop a bit o' brass ferr 't 'owd bomberr?".
However, once the funding to continue the programme has been secured, then a more professional PR company would indeed be A Good Thing. Robert, Felicity and the enthusiasts have put in an enormous level of effort, but there now needs to be a dedicated PR team involved.
I see 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space has flogged six dozen EuropHoons to the Saudis - perhaps he might now be persuaded to "stump oop a bit o' brass ferr 't 'owd bomberr?".
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Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
Just for reference, I'm still monitoring progress on the saga, but i don't think there's any point in getting involved with any campaigns or anything like that, as it now looks like there are already too many people doing this already. I congratulate Airsound for his efforts, but I wonder whether it's a good idea to have people such as himself plus Pleming and Irwin (and maybe some others) all chasing different people (or worse still, the same people) for money or publicity.
Surely, it would be better if all of the people involved could appoint one person to do the job, otherwise it just gives the impression to potential sponsors that the set-up is too "amateurish" to take seriously. Likewise, I understand a PR company has now been appointed to tackle the job (although no word as to who they are, and if they're likely to be any good) but if this is indeed the case, then it would be counter-productive for anyone else to be doing their job at the same time.
My chief concern was the HLF's input, as regardless of all the admirable work that is being done to seek more donations, it's clear that only HLF are capable of supporting the project sufficiently to get the aircraft back into the air. From the information they've given me, they appear to be quite prepared to look at the provision of more money, but at the same time they also seem reluctant to discuss their views. They tell me that the matter is between them and the project managers which is fair enough, but you'd think that when nearly £3million of Lottery money is involved, it's also something that we all have a right to share?!
Oh well, I can only wish everyone involved the very best of luck - I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!
Surely, it would be better if all of the people involved could appoint one person to do the job, otherwise it just gives the impression to potential sponsors that the set-up is too "amateurish" to take seriously. Likewise, I understand a PR company has now been appointed to tackle the job (although no word as to who they are, and if they're likely to be any good) but if this is indeed the case, then it would be counter-productive for anyone else to be doing their job at the same time.
My chief concern was the HLF's input, as regardless of all the admirable work that is being done to seek more donations, it's clear that only HLF are capable of supporting the project sufficiently to get the aircraft back into the air. From the information they've given me, they appear to be quite prepared to look at the provision of more money, but at the same time they also seem reluctant to discuss their views. They tell me that the matter is between them and the project managers which is fair enough, but you'd think that when nearly £3million of Lottery money is involved, it's also something that we all have a right to share?!
Oh well, I can only wish everyone involved the very best of luck - I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!
Tim
You have to see it from an enthusiast/supporters point of view.
The offical route is FI at VTTS Wimbourne. She is on a 6 week annual holiday in the South France.
This certainly rasies an eybrow with the aircrafts supporters and indeed the signal is sends into the hangar at Bruntingthorpe and outward to other areas monitoring the project.
The supporters Club, has had enough, under the regime, and just like in 1992 - 1993 is playing an active role to the public at large. They have enthusiasm and the will, and under direction could recover this project.
This leaves a void in the corporate area, which to date has not proved successful anyway, under the current policy of "give us a million and you can have a sticker on the aeroplane".
The clear message from the Trustees of VTTS is that they are happy for the current Org to remain otherwise you would have thought they would make the necessary changes. They all seem to be towing the line and feel no guilt if the project folds and the charity is wound up.
One trustee has broken ranks though, and he happens to be in charge of the supporters club who are now a 'splinter' group and receiving pledges.
The total to date I do not have yet.
No one person can yet direct the recovery plan, because that position is currently in post. I am not sure what the current post holder is doing.
I think the trustees will need some sort of security if they bother to turn up at the Rollout on the 31st August at Bruntingthorpe.
Of which - she has declared as invite only. But if anyone wants tickets PM me and I have a source that can get some. And if the trustees are there on the 31st, we can 'ave a word' with them?
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I'm not criticisng anybody - it's commendable that so many people are doing their best to save the project from disaster. I'm just a tad concerned that the creation of so much duplication and confliction will ultimately allow the project to slip between two (or more) proverbial stools.
Likewise, I've been banging-on about getting another PR company for months so I'm delighted that they have finally done so. I just find it odd that Dr Pleming seems reluctant to even discuss the subject and nobody seems prepared to say who the company is, whether they're going to charge yet more money for their efforts, or if they're any good. Having had one bad experience with a PR company, one hopes that this time things will work-out better.
But as I keep saying, the key to all of this is HLF and no matter how much fund raising continues, or how much the PR company might (or might not) achieve for the future, it's the short-term task of getting the aircraft back into the air that counts, and clearly it's HLF that has the power to do this. Although it's good that the guys at Bruntingthorpe are evidently trying to "take charge" of the project, I hope that they will also do their best to come between the Trust members and the HLF to ensure that HLF funny understand the enthusiasm for this project. My dark vision is of a meeting between HLF and Felicity Irwin where she allows HLF to walk-away from the project. If all the comments and rumours about her lack of committment are correct, it could well happen, and if it does, then I fear the project is well and truly dead.
As I've said, I'm right behind anyone who tries to save this project, but my personal view is that all efforts should be directed towards HLF right now. Anything else just isn't going to work, and if all the rumours are right, I'm equally concerned that HLF should not be allowed to simply act on the advice/attitude of the Trust, as I get the impression that some of the Trust team are wanting to wash their hands of the project. When so much Lottery money is involved, we shouldn't allow the Trust to dictate the aircraft's future any longer, as in essence it's not their aircraft - it's the HLF's and therefore as Lottery punters, it's ours!
Likewise, I've been banging-on about getting another PR company for months so I'm delighted that they have finally done so. I just find it odd that Dr Pleming seems reluctant to even discuss the subject and nobody seems prepared to say who the company is, whether they're going to charge yet more money for their efforts, or if they're any good. Having had one bad experience with a PR company, one hopes that this time things will work-out better.
But as I keep saying, the key to all of this is HLF and no matter how much fund raising continues, or how much the PR company might (or might not) achieve for the future, it's the short-term task of getting the aircraft back into the air that counts, and clearly it's HLF that has the power to do this. Although it's good that the guys at Bruntingthorpe are evidently trying to "take charge" of the project, I hope that they will also do their best to come between the Trust members and the HLF to ensure that HLF funny understand the enthusiasm for this project. My dark vision is of a meeting between HLF and Felicity Irwin where she allows HLF to walk-away from the project. If all the comments and rumours about her lack of committment are correct, it could well happen, and if it does, then I fear the project is well and truly dead.
As I've said, I'm right behind anyone who tries to save this project, but my personal view is that all efforts should be directed towards HLF right now. Anything else just isn't going to work, and if all the rumours are right, I'm equally concerned that HLF should not be allowed to simply act on the advice/attitude of the Trust, as I get the impression that some of the Trust team are wanting to wash their hands of the project. When so much Lottery money is involved, we shouldn't allow the Trust to dictate the aircraft's future any longer, as in essence it's not their aircraft - it's the HLF's and therefore as Lottery punters, it's ours!
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Tim
Sounds about right.
Dr P is currently resting on doctors orders. Andrew Edmondson is the hangar manager and will be there on the 31st for Roll Out.
I spoke to Robert a couple of weeks ago, he assures me the HLF are behind the project and are being understanding to the current problems, though no extra money will be given on top of the allocated grant.
So we are back to getting 'the house in order' closure of the chapter. A pause, then start the next one.
Sounds about right.
Dr P is currently resting on doctors orders. Andrew Edmondson is the hangar manager and will be there on the 31st for Roll Out.
I spoke to Robert a couple of weeks ago, he assures me the HLF are behind the project and are being understanding to the current problems, though no extra money will be given on top of the allocated grant.
So we are back to getting 'the house in order' closure of the chapter. A pause, then start the next one.
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From http://www.ukar.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarbo...;&#entry257963 this thread on the UKAR forum, it appears another Vulcan, XM603 at Woodford, is in dire straits too...
Not a good year for Vulcans.
Not a good year for Vulcans.
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Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
But as I keep saying, the key to all of this is HLF and no matter how much fund raising continues, or how much the PR company might (or might not) achieve for the future, it's the short-term task of getting the aircraft back into the air that counts, and clearly it's HLF that has the power to do this. Although it's good that the guys at Bruntingthorpe are evidently trying to "take charge" of the project, I hope that they will also do their best to come between the Trust members and the HLF to ensure that HLF funny understand the enthusiasm for this project. My dark vision is of a meeting between HLF and Felicity Irwin where she allows HLF to walk-away from the project. If all the comments and rumours about her lack of committment are correct, it could well happen, and if it does, then I fear the project is well and truly dead.
As I've said, I'm right behind anyone who tries to save this project, but my personal view is that all efforts should be directed towards HLF right now. Anything else just isn't going to work, and if all the rumours are right, I'm equally concerned that HLF should not be allowed to simply act on the advice/attitude of the Trust, as I get the impression that some of the Trust team are wanting to wash their hands of the project. When so much Lottery money is involved, we shouldn't allow the Trust to dictate the aircraft's future any longer, as in essence it's not their aircraft - it's the HLF's and therefore as Lottery punters, it's ours!
As I've said, I'm right behind anyone who tries to save this project, but my personal view is that all efforts should be directed towards HLF right now. Anything else just isn't going to work, and if all the rumours are right, I'm equally concerned that HLF should not be allowed to simply act on the advice/attitude of the Trust, as I get the impression that some of the Trust team are wanting to wash their hands of the project. When so much Lottery money is involved, we shouldn't allow the Trust to dictate the aircraft's future any longer, as in essence it's not their aircraft - it's the HLF's and therefore as Lottery punters, it's ours!
I would think it very possible that with the support of the guys at Wellesbourne, Southend & Bruntingthorpe - '558 could be returned to taxiable condition and the Waltons would be happy for it to remain although not neccesarily taking up the hangar!
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Vulcan XH558 Milestone Day - 18th August
" For the first time in Six, yes, SIX years, XH558 Vulcan has had her landing gear fully restored and she is finally standing tall and proud. The team have worked extra hard on this part of the project and we are all so very grateful."
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1,000 e-mails now sent to the HLF in just over a week from the Air-Scene UK webpage - if you haven't added your support, do so now! 
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1,001 now.
Having seen Vulcans fly myself, I really believe that this is a treat that should not be denied to future generations of aviation enthusiasts.
A truly awe-inspring sight and sound.
Having seen Vulcans fly myself, I really believe that this is a treat that should not be denied to future generations of aviation enthusiasts.
A truly awe-inspring sight and sound.
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Originally Posted by iank
I would think it very possible that with the support of the guys at Wellesbourne, Southend & Bruntingthorpe - '558 could be returned to taxiable condition and the Waltons would be happy for it to remain although not neccesarily taking up the hangar!
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I've reached something of a dead-end in my investigations. Although the HLF people seem very approachable and insist that nothing has been ruled-out as yet, they say that they cannot enter into discussions about the project, as it's a matter for private discussion between themselves and the Trust.
All very well, but when we have tales about Felicity Irwin wanting to effectively abandon the project, you wonder what will be said behind closed doors. The frustrating aspect of this is that we seem to be left without any means of either knowing what is being proposed, what is being said, or what the Trust will say if HLF refuse to offer any more cash.
I find this position quite remarkable when the project has relied on donations from members of the public and money from lottery donations. You'd think that we would all be entitled to know exactly what discussions are taking place. As ever, the whole project seems to be disappearing behind closed doors...
All very well, but when we have tales about Felicity Irwin wanting to effectively abandon the project, you wonder what will be said behind closed doors. The frustrating aspect of this is that we seem to be left without any means of either knowing what is being proposed, what is being said, or what the Trust will say if HLF refuse to offer any more cash.
I find this position quite remarkable when the project has relied on donations from members of the public and money from lottery donations. You'd think that we would all be entitled to know exactly what discussions are taking place. As ever, the whole project seems to be disappearing behind closed doors...
Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
You'd think that we would all be entitled to know exactly what discussions are taking place. As ever, the whole project seems to be disappearing behind closed doors...
After the way the project PR has been handled since day one, are you really surprised at any of this?
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Nope, not surprised, just frustrated! HLF's official (quotable) line is:-
"HLF's relationship with the Trust remains positive. We are unable to comment further due to ongoing negotiations with the Trust and other interested parties. The Fund is very aware of the public interest in the project and remains committed to ensuring that the best possible conclusion is reached for all directly involved in the project and the many lottery players who continue to express interest."
Make of this what you will.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "best possible concluison". I still think the best route would be to apply direct pressure on HLF to at least finance the project to the stage where the aircraft can be flown out of Bruntingthorpe to Duxford. At least this would give the aircraft a fighting chance of preservation, rather than being left to rot at Bruntingthorpe. I just hope the rumours about certain Trust members are wrong and that they are not proposing to simply let HLF walk-away from the project. Shame on them if they do.
"HLF's relationship with the Trust remains positive. We are unable to comment further due to ongoing negotiations with the Trust and other interested parties. The Fund is very aware of the public interest in the project and remains committed to ensuring that the best possible conclusion is reached for all directly involved in the project and the many lottery players who continue to express interest."
Make of this what you will.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "best possible concluison". I still think the best route would be to apply direct pressure on HLF to at least finance the project to the stage where the aircraft can be flown out of Bruntingthorpe to Duxford. At least this would give the aircraft a fighting chance of preservation, rather than being left to rot at Bruntingthorpe. I just hope the rumours about certain Trust members are wrong and that they are not proposing to simply let HLF walk-away from the project. Shame on them if they do.
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Dr Pleming
Just went to the bottom of a page, to see who was on line, and Dr Pleming is among us! Profile quoted a "tvoc" website address and that is is about it. He hasn't made any posts (I think) let us hope he is doing some reading!