Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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No way they were angled backwards. On the Vulcan B2's they were directly behind the starboard undercarriage doors and pointed straight down.
Pic from Andy Leitch's Vulcans in Camera. (Is Andy still around?)
Last edited by forget; 19th Jan 2010 at 09:44.
"There used to be this funny oil which when used on pink rubber sleeves enabled them to slide down over a soldered contact"
That'll be Hellerin Lubricant then (still available from RS & other electrical suppliers) often reffered to as virgin juice - the three pronged tools for fitting the aforsed pink sleeves over the cables & pins were called virgin splitters - probably too much detail
R2
That'll be Hellerin Lubricant then (still available from RS & other electrical suppliers) often reffered to as virgin juice - the three pronged tools for fitting the aforsed pink sleeves over the cables & pins were called virgin splitters - probably too much detail
R2
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alisoncc, not important I know, but I give you (very) well remembered facts and you keep coming up with your own (wrong) versions. See below, aircraft GPU connectors which, incidentally, are nowhere near the starboard main gear doors, are angled rearwards to allow ........... Never mind. 
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Bay, Vic, Oz
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but I give you (very) well remembered facts and you keep coming up with your own (wrong) versions. See below, aircraft GPU connectors which, incidentally, are nowhere near the starboard main gear doors, are angled rearwards to allow ........... Never mind. 
My wooly brain was mixing up two unrelated events that seem to happen together quite regularly. One was hanging on the GPU connectors in an attempt to dislodge them, and the other was balancing on the main starboard bogies and hanging on to the undercarriage door whilst attempting to refasten one of the Dzus clips that held up the Green Satin aerial cover. On one of our aircraft these seemed to regularly spring out, much to the annoyance of the Crew Chief. The airframe fitters had replaced a few of them, but I think the cover may have been warped in some way. I think I still have one of those double thickness Dzus penny washer devices in my toolbox. Not that I use it much these days.
On an unrelated matter, remember going way up in the sky to replace some corroded connectors on the ILS antennas at the highest point of the Rudder/Tail Fin, but cannot remember what the ILS boxes looked like or where they were. We also had a Leader Cable install on one aircraft, but don't think it was useable.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
the other was balancing on the main starboard bogies and hanging on to the undercarriage door whilst attempting to refasten one of the Dzus clips that held up the Green Satin aerial cover. On one of our aircraft these seemed to regularly spring out, much to the annoyance of the Crew Chief. The airframe fitters had replaced a few of them, but I think the cover may have been warped in some way.
The cover had a very special warping property - they all did.
You could open and close then 'fairly' easily provided the aircraft was not being refuelled. If you opened them and then the aircraft was refuelled there was sufficient warping of the GS bay that it was a sod to re-fasten the door.
Do you remember why you had to do this?
The low pressure air inlets for the GS aerials were on the GS and only accessed when you opened the panel. Then some bright spark, probably aircrew
as we had to recharge the airs when we did TRs, suggested extending the charging pipework into the undercarriage bay.
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Still wrong. Green Satin was port side.
to replace some corroded connectors on the ILS antennas at the highest point of the Rudder/Tail Fin,
- the ILS antennas (G/S, LOC) were in the wing tips. There was an antenna in the fin cap, but not ILS.
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Alisoncc,
Are you by any chance thinking of the Air Start connection from the Palouste, which did indeed live behind the Stb'd undercarriage bay, and did indeed connect vertically upwards as opposed to being angled??
This is all I can think of which lives on that side of the aircraft and indeed connected to the airframe in a vertical plane. As I understand it (but forget would be able to confirm or deny this) the Palouste would not have been used anyway in an alert situation, so the vertical connection was not relevant.
Hope that may have jogged the old memory!!
Flipflopman
Are you by any chance thinking of the Air Start connection from the Palouste, which did indeed live behind the Stb'd undercarriage bay, and did indeed connect vertically upwards as opposed to being angled??
This is all I can think of which lives on that side of the aircraft and indeed connected to the airframe in a vertical plane. As I understand it (but forget would be able to confirm or deny this) the Palouste would not have been used anyway in an alert situation, so the vertical connection was not relevant.
Hope that may have jogged the old memory!!
Flipflopman
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
FlipFlop, I think you're right about the Palouste although it could certainly be used as a backup.
The HP air would probably have been the first choice, epecially a mass-rapid, if speed overrode safety.
The HP air would probably have been the first choice, epecially a mass-rapid, if speed overrode safety.
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flipflop, good to hear from you. I think you've put alisoncc right on his fading memories - too much Oz plonk perchance. I do remember Paloustes on the odd pan but I don't think they were regularly used, and certainly not for QRA/ORP starts. There was some mention of Mass Rapid Start earlier. I thought this was disabled early on. No?
PS. alison, you specifically mentioned B2 Ground Power. I think you may have been thinking of 1(A)s - which were much different. Take a look at this. ( Only trying to help - Oz plonk can't be that damaging. )
British Pathe - SCRAMBLE IN 2 MINUTES
PS. alison, you specifically mentioned B2 Ground Power. I think you may have been thinking of 1(A)s - which were much different. Take a look at this. ( Only trying to help - Oz plonk can't be that damaging.
)British Pathe - SCRAMBLE IN 2 MINUTES
Last edited by forget; 21st Jan 2010 at 09:40.
Vulcan B2 Rapid/Sim Start
There was some mention of Mass Rapid Start earlier. I thought this was disabled early on. No?
What you lost was the simultaneous start of the PFCUs that occurred when the "Sim" button was pressed, but as this required an external supply, not the AAPP it could lead to problems if the ground power failed at the critical moment (always seemed to in the sim!). The procedure that you adopted when using the 2,3,1,4 start was to press the R start button on the PFCU panel when first alternator came on line and all the PFCUs would then start in sequence.
Having said all of the above, the "mass rapid" procedure was normally only used on displays or demos. The normal exercise procedure on the ORP was to start one engine with rapid air and then do a simultaneous cross-feed start for the remaining 3.
They must have taught me well in the groundschool if I can remember all that after 40 or so years!
YS
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As mentioned much earlier, mass rapids and sim starts were used in the 60s and usually from a cold, no external or internal power, display starts.
I remember a Mk 1 scramble at BB Open day. One aircraft rolled on 2 engines, got the 3rd up on the runway and the 4th once airborne.
On the Mk 2 the problem was the engines would all start but there were no engine instruments until the AEO connected the power to the BUS. After a couple of engine fires, IIRC, the practice was stopped.
I remember a Mk 1 scramble at BB Open day. One aircraft rolled on 2 engines, got the 3rd up on the runway and the 4th once airborne.
On the Mk 2 the problem was the engines would all start but there were no engine instruments until the AEO connected the power to the BUS. After a couple of engine fires, IIRC, the practice was stopped.
Crew scrambling on board resplendent in SD hats, I see. Well, can't look scruffy in front of the Russkies when you're walking back from Siberia I assume
On the Mk 2 the problem was the engines would all start but there were no engine instruments until the AEO connected the power to the BUS. After a couple of engine fires, IIRC, the practice was stopped.
*IIRC this was related to the availability of cartridge start when the non-essentials had had been shed.
YS
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yellow Sun, the AAPP would not be available because on the VIP Display scarambles the aim was to show the 2-min capability and it was always done from a power-off stance, ie the airfield would be completely silent only the 28v power would be online IIRC, and only the intercom live.
A mass-rapid power off start was quite something as the 1st aircraft would be rolling within 25-35 seconds.
As for SD Hats, indeed we did. We might have been in flying suits but we stil had to salute. Even on routine training flights we always wore hats to the aircraft. The two windows in the rear were ideal for the radar and AEO hats until they put some kit in the AEOs window.
We also used to take a service-issued suit travel bag on every flight. After changing in flying clothing we would all pack trousers and jacket into the bag - all 5 sets in one bag. We didn't need shirts however as we wore the blue wooly aircrew shirt and, until the risk of being throttled, we wore ties too.
As the long johns, with rubber button, were grandad cast-offs many would wear uniform trousers under their flying suits.
A mass-rapid power off start was quite something as the 1st aircraft would be rolling within 25-35 seconds.
As for SD Hats, indeed we did. We might have been in flying suits but we stil had to salute. Even on routine training flights we always wore hats to the aircraft. The two windows in the rear were ideal for the radar and AEO hats until they put some kit in the AEOs window.
We also used to take a service-issued suit travel bag on every flight. After changing in flying clothing we would all pack trousers and jacket into the bag - all 5 sets in one bag. We didn't need shirts however as we wore the blue wooly aircrew shirt and, until the risk of being throttled, we wore ties too.
As the long johns, with rubber button, were grandad cast-offs many would wear uniform trousers under their flying suits.
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SIM Start
In the early mid 60's Sim Start was introduced. We lost the ability to cross feed start from the AAPP when it came in which was shame as we were self sufficient until then on the ground although we did use the Palouste routinely. It was used on QRA when the readiness state went to 02, I think, and it never failed in my experience. (The flashy B of B displays were a secondary issue) The biggest problem was getting the throttles retarded - they all had to be fully forward and could not be retarded until each engine reached a given percentage (60%??). As we were often facing another aircraft on the QRA pan getting them retarded was quite a necessity!
I did not know about the interlock for a cartridge start immediately after turning on the batteries - obviously our AEO had forgotten about it as he started the AAPP on a compass swing just as the Captain was stood under the AAPP exhaust. It cartridge started and his SD hat was turned green. He was not amused but I seem to recall the rest of us thought it very funny.
ACW
I did not know about the interlock for a cartridge start immediately after turning on the batteries - obviously our AEO had forgotten about it as he started the AAPP on a compass swing just as the Captain was stood under the AAPP exhaust. It cartridge started and his SD hat was turned green. He was not amused but I seem to recall the rest of us thought it very funny.
ACW
Last edited by ACW418; 23rd Jan 2010 at 15:26. Reason: I meant a palouste not a houchin.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
[QUOTE=ACW418;5464615] The biggest problem was getting the throttles retarded - they all had to be fully forward and could not be retarded until each engine reached a given percentage (60%??). As we were often facing another aircraft on the QRA pan getting them retarded was quite a necessity!/QUOTE]
Why? The obvious answer, jet blast, is not correct as the jets were facing each other.
Why? The obvious answer, jet blast, is not correct as the jets were facing each other.
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SIM Start
PN
Two reasons. One we were usually about to taxi to the threshold and doing that with 70 or 80% set would probably have meant hitting the other aircraft. Two I do not recall the brakes were that good with 103.5% running on the engines. The pans were often wet and oily so we would have launched into the opposing aircraft but more likely fail to make the turn.
I do recall on one demonstration on the ORP one of the four aircraft did not make the turn and went onto the grass on the other side of the runway.
ACW
Two reasons. One we were usually about to taxi to the threshold and doing that with 70 or 80% set would probably have meant hitting the other aircraft. Two I do not recall the brakes were that good with 103.5% running on the engines. The pans were often wet and oily so we would have launched into the opposing aircraft but more likely fail to make the turn.
I do recall on one demonstration on the ORP one of the four aircraft did not make the turn and went onto the grass on the other side of the runway.
ACW
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ACW, I thought that might be the reasons.
As for the run on to the grass, IIRC, it was a nose wheel steering failure and it didn't turn in time.
As for the run on to the grass, IIRC, it was a nose wheel steering failure and it didn't turn in time.
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PN
I never believed that as he had wheel brakes. More likely he was trying to keep as much power on as he could to save having to wait for the engines to spool up again! He overcooked it and had a convenient nosewheel steering malfunction.
ACW
I never believed that as he had wheel brakes. More likely he was trying to keep as much power on as he could to save having to wait for the engines to spool up again! He overcooked it and had a convenient nosewheel steering malfunction.
ACW