Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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Back to the Vulcan.
I remember reading in a magazine article on the Vulcan a number of years ago, that one of the options being considered along with Skybolt, was to hang 2 nuclear armed Gnat figters under the wing, and to launch them against the Soviets from some point outside their airspace. No mention was made of how they were expected to return.
In the same article, there was mention of also fitting Skybolt to the VC-10 (3 Skybolt Missiled) and to the BAC 1-11 (2 Missiles).
Can anyone shed any light on this? I've long since lost the magazine article, else I would post more info. I think the Magazine was called "Take Flight" or similar.
Matty
I remember reading in a magazine article on the Vulcan a number of years ago, that one of the options being considered along with Skybolt, was to hang 2 nuclear armed Gnat figters under the wing, and to launch them against the Soviets from some point outside their airspace. No mention was made of how they were expected to return.
In the same article, there was mention of also fitting Skybolt to the VC-10 (3 Skybolt Missiled) and to the BAC 1-11 (2 Missiles).
Can anyone shed any light on this? I've long since lost the magazine article, else I would post more info. I think the Magazine was called "Take Flight" or similar.
Matty
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Matty,
I have the details at home.
I am not sure, from memory, but it may have been 3.
As a bomber-fighter escort on a strike mission recovery would not have been an issue. At least if we had accepted one-way missions which we, unlike the French, did not.
Not in the book, but a potentially more uesful function, would have been to tote the Gnats at a forward CAP station say 200 miles out and release them into an attacking bomber stream.
I also seem to recall that it was a plan for a Vulcan derivative, considerably larger than than the B2.
Another aircraft that would have rivalled the B70 was the Avro supersonic bomber. Again, details at home, but I seem to recall the best bit was the undercarriage. It needed 8 boggies rather than the Vulcan 4 but te plane was to jettison 4 of these so that the wheel bay would not be too large. The book didn't address the problem of arresting 8 boggies pairs travelling at 160 kts nor the problem of providing spare boggies at staging posts around the world.
I have the details at home.
I am not sure, from memory, but it may have been 3.
As a bomber-fighter escort on a strike mission recovery would not have been an issue. At least if we had accepted one-way missions which we, unlike the French, did not.
Not in the book, but a potentially more uesful function, would have been to tote the Gnats at a forward CAP station say 200 miles out and release them into an attacking bomber stream.
I also seem to recall that it was a plan for a Vulcan derivative, considerably larger than than the B2.
Another aircraft that would have rivalled the B70 was the Avro supersonic bomber. Again, details at home, but I seem to recall the best bit was the undercarriage. It needed 8 boggies rather than the Vulcan 4 but te plane was to jettison 4 of these so that the wheel bay would not be too large. The book didn't address the problem of arresting 8 boggies pairs travelling at 160 kts nor the problem of providing spare boggies at staging posts around the world.
Nope. they got rescued after going bust, and finally went bust again in 1989/90 after James Guerin and the International Signal hole in the books ($400 million, IIRC) as described by tornadoken. Ferranti sponsored me through University, and gave me my first job after graduation (I stayed at Crewe Toll for ten years and three name changes).Yes, they delivered systems. Seaspray for Naval Lynx (and occasional other platforms, including one fast patrol boat), Blue Vixen for SHAR FA.2, Blue Kestrel for Naval Merlin, ECR.90 (now CAPTOR) for Typhoon, AMSAR (now CAESAR) for Typhoon Tranche 3. All of these products were led from Crewe Toll except the last.Strictly speaking, Blue Vixen was a shared project with Ericsson, so the PS/05a in the early Gripen is very similar (but not identical) in hardware terms; the software is totally different between the two.You could argue that being able to design and manufacture an LTM for ground forces, the PGM that it guided, the LRMTS and LTM pod on the launch aircraft, the radar and nav system to get it there and the DASS to protect it, the system to plan the mission and record its success or failure, and all of the associated test equipment to make sure that these stay working - is a systems capability.On the Nav front, they won the nav system for early Ariane rockets, Jaguar, and Tornado (and nearly Challenger 2 until they decided GPS was the way forward.) In fact, several of the avionic subsystems in Tornado GR.1 was Ferranti design or responsibility - radar, INS, moving map display, LRMTS, LTM pod, not sure about the HUD.There was a succession of ATE equipments for use in RAF kit - if you've ever seen something with the power of a ZX-81 in a full-height 19" rack called FIST, then that was the Ferranti Inertial Systems Tester. I spent my summer vacations from University working with the mostly-Bellshill-based team that designed those and the AST-1000 and AST-1200 (a rugged test kit for Harrier GR.5).That was Silverknowes - who also went on to design DIRCM aka Nemesis, and the DASS for the WAH-64 before they moved along the road to Crewe Toll.At Robertson Avenue and then South Gyle, the Product Support, Electro-Optics, and Display Systems Divisions designed Mission Data Recorders and Mission Planning systems, not to mention Head-Up displays, NVGs, and high-brightness screens. They also designed and delivered TIALD, and were working on the Al Hakim PGMs for UAE. Somewhere in the mix was a artillery-sound-locating system.Before merger with International Signal, Ferranti Defence Systems employed over 6,000 people in Edinburgh, over half of whom were engineering graduates. They didn't just design the kit, they manufactured it too - the central machine shop at Crewe Toll was an impressive sight to behold. Five years later, it was down to 3,000 people. Strangely, there are a few technology firms based in Edinburgh because of the availability of engineering experience...
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Vulcan pilots who attended 230 OCU at Finningley
Is there anyone still alive and kicking out there who remembers me I wonder? Having flown with 1X Sqn from 62 to 66 at Coningsby and Cottesmore, I then went to 230 OCU at Finningley as a Ground School instructor (66 to 69). Does anyone remember helping me to push the ruddy great plywood Vulcan mock-up round Room 20 at Finningley while I explained the MFS switching for all manner of approaches including the dreaded back-beam ILS? Those were the days of chalk and talk and man-sized visual aids!
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I thought you had a house in Spain?
We were with Selectia and a very nice salesman mentioned this ever so nice retired wg cdr in Alicante.
Then there was Captain Crighton who recounted how a very young BenM had a go at killing him in a Canberra, oh, must be about 50 years ago.
We were on the same course when you opted for the posting to Scampton.
No more clues. PM me if you are lost.
We were with Selectia and a very nice salesman mentioned this ever so nice retired wg cdr in Alicante.
Then there was Captain Crighton who recounted how a very young BenM had a go at killing him in a Canberra, oh, must be about 50 years ago.
We were on the same course when you opted for the posting to Scampton.
No more clues. PM me if you are lost.
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Wader2: Sorry. You've managed to lose me.
One, I never had a posting to Scampton in all of
my 35 years in the Service.
Two, I did fly Canberras 50 years ago (1X Sqn again)
but this Captain Chrighton was obviously so shaken
by the incident that he's forgotten who the pilot was!
One, I never had a posting to Scampton in all of
my 35 years in the Service.
Two, I did fly Canberras 50 years ago (1X Sqn again)
but this Captain Chrighton was obviously so shaken
by the incident that he's forgotten who the pilot was!
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Benmac?
If you are the Benmac that I gave a lift to a couple of times between St M and Kinloss in a Canberra sometime about 1980; the I remember you!
Regards.
Regards.
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Greetings!
Apart from the fact that I can't spell "then" I thought it might be! I feel that I may know you as well. We seem to be of a similar age and background but, as "saltminers" sets in, and after an afternoons sunshine enhanced refreshment, I might need more clues as to your real persona! (Spelling may have let me down again!)
Cunning Artificer
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All this talk of upgraded Vulcans, TSR2 and the like ignores the fact that the "V" Bomber Force was part of a NATO Strategic Force that provided Mutually Assured Destruction as a deterrent against a Soviet first strike nuclear attack. The V Force also served as an independent deterrent against an attack against the UK, regardless of whether the rest of NATO joined in or not.
The fact that I can sit here writing this post suggests that the nuclear deterrent worked perfectly well as it was constructed and without building any fanciful new aircraft. To all those detractors who suggest that the Victors, Vulcans and Valiants never saw active service, or that the Vulcan's first and only operational use was in the Falklands, I say "Nonsense!" The V Force was in permanent full-time active service from the first operational Valiant Squadron until the deployment of Polaris.
Speaking as just one chap who stood on a deserted QRA dispersal reflecting upon the fact that there were no standing orders for what to do next (except perhaps to pray), we did the job we were asked to do - our duty - and like those who went before us and those who came afterwards, we were prepared for the consequences if our efforts failed. I'm eternally grateful, both for myself and for the human race, for the fact that our defensive efforts were successful and it never came to that.
The fact that I can sit here writing this post suggests that the nuclear deterrent worked perfectly well as it was constructed and without building any fanciful new aircraft. To all those detractors who suggest that the Victors, Vulcans and Valiants never saw active service, or that the Vulcan's first and only operational use was in the Falklands, I say "Nonsense!" The V Force was in permanent full-time active service from the first operational Valiant Squadron until the deployment of Polaris.
Speaking as just one chap who stood on a deserted QRA dispersal reflecting upon the fact that there were no standing orders for what to do next (except perhaps to pray), we did the job we were asked to do - our duty - and like those who went before us and those who came afterwards, we were prepared for the consequences if our efforts failed. I'm eternally grateful, both for myself and for the human race, for the fact that our defensive efforts were successful and it never came to that.
Yes, Him
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reflecting upon the fact that there were no standing orders for what to do next
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Every time I hear a reference to a Vulcan reminds me of the time when I was at school (many years ago).
Sitting in a boring history lesson, my mate who was sitting a couple of rows down from me put up his hand for the teachers attention and stated
"Sir, there's a plane on fire and it's crashing"
All of the class rushed to the window and sure enough, there was this delta winged plane obviously out of control, with smoke/flames emanating from it and was hurtling to the ground. What was also noticable was one of the occupants ejecting. Apparently there were two crew, however, due to the distance, only one was visible to us.
It transpired that the Vulcan pilot had attempted to guide the malfunctioning plane out to the North Sea, however, it came down near a village (Wingate, Co. Durham) just missing a school, however, fortunately, there were no casualties.
Could have been disastrous, however, it turned out to be one of our better history lessons!
Sitting in a boring history lesson, my mate who was sitting a couple of rows down from me put up his hand for the teachers attention and stated
"Sir, there's a plane on fire and it's crashing"
All of the class rushed to the window and sure enough, there was this delta winged plane obviously out of control, with smoke/flames emanating from it and was hurtling to the ground. What was also noticable was one of the occupants ejecting. Apparently there were two crew, however, due to the distance, only one was visible to us.
It transpired that the Vulcan pilot had attempted to guide the malfunctioning plane out to the North Sea, however, it came down near a village (Wingate, Co. Durham) just missing a school, however, fortunately, there were no casualties.
Could have been disastrous, however, it turned out to be one of our better history lessons!
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ZH875
Thanks for that.
Although I was aware that there were two crew members on board at the time I saw the plane in distress, I was not aware or certainly could not recall that there were another three who ejected earlier over Northumberland.
The report by Jim Rutland is very detailed and brings back memories of that day. Bearing in mind some of the densely populated areas within the unintended flight path of the stricken plane, that incident could have been catastrophic.
Thanks for that.
Although I was aware that there were two crew members on board at the time I saw the plane in distress, I was not aware or certainly could not recall that there were another three who ejected earlier over Northumberland.
The report by Jim Rutland is very detailed and brings back memories of that day. Bearing in mind some of the densely populated areas within the unintended flight path of the stricken plane, that incident could have been catastrophic.
Cunning Artificer
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It was catastrophic from the Crew Chief's point of view. They spent more time with their beloved than they did with their wives...
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Help with any info pls
I'm not military background, this is really just a request for information if at all possible.
My dad was a navigator in the Raf and flew in the SAC bombing competition in the seventies in a vulcan, he then moved onto phantoms and was unfortunately killed in a training accident in 1978. I have spoken to a couple of ex RAF guys to find out a bit more about him, as the information I have prior to those conversations was sketchy to say the least.
Does anyone have any pictures of the actual Vulcan used, my dad or any stories at all of base activities or even just of memories that can all help me to keep building on the information I have of my dad.
His name was Chris Meade, I have already spoken to Geoff Coop who was part of the aircrew who took part in the succesful SAC comp.
The point of asking this question now 30 years after my dad's death, is to know him better so i can let my kids know about him.
Any help or information given, no matter how seemingly insignificant - is greatly appreciated.
Kind regards
Nick
My dad was a navigator in the Raf and flew in the SAC bombing competition in the seventies in a vulcan, he then moved onto phantoms and was unfortunately killed in a training accident in 1978. I have spoken to a couple of ex RAF guys to find out a bit more about him, as the information I have prior to those conversations was sketchy to say the least.
Does anyone have any pictures of the actual Vulcan used, my dad or any stories at all of base activities or even just of memories that can all help me to keep building on the information I have of my dad.
His name was Chris Meade, I have already spoken to Geoff Coop who was part of the aircrew who took part in the succesful SAC comp.
The point of asking this question now 30 years after my dad's death, is to know him better so i can let my kids know about him.
Any help or information given, no matter how seemingly insignificant - is greatly appreciated.
Kind regards
Nick
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Nick_Me, yes, I knew Chris but not very well. He was on one of the sqns when I was in the wing at Waddo. I don't really have any memories that I can share except to say he was a good bloke.
I don't remember him going to F4s nor that he had been killed. Still, a long time ago and one of many killed in those days. Very sad.
I don't remember him going to F4s nor that he had been killed. Still, a long time ago and one of many killed in those days. Very sad.
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Hello nick me,
I am sorry I can't help you in your search. My involvment with Vulcans was as a test pilot for the testing of Autamatic/Blind landings.at RAE Bedford.
However I would direct you to VULCANS IN CAMERA if you have not already tried them. Go through GOOGLE
Best wishes Paddy Grogan
I am sorry I can't help you in your search. My involvment with Vulcans was as a test pilot for the testing of Autamatic/Blind landings.at RAE Bedford.
However I would direct you to VULCANS IN CAMERA if you have not already tried them. Go through GOOGLE
Best wishes Paddy Grogan