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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

WingNut60 26th Dec 2021 23:51


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11161187)
I'm in the 'at risk' group as well, my folks are well into the high risk age group and so on being well over 60 and some in their 80s. The vaccine does not 'stop working' at 5-6 months, it just starts to reduce in effectiveness, so where it had 90% protection it might drop to 60% protection, the booster just kicks it back up to higher levels. Really just depends on what you consider acceptable protection for the circumstance. If Omicron is as docile as stated then even with 50% protection(that one depends on who you believe also) it probably would stop any severe infection, just the problem if you encounter any remaining delta, which is still circulating in Melbourne.

Quite a few real & implied "probabilities" in your surmise.
And being, like your parents, in the high risk age group I am not at all impressed by a national directive to "just get vaccinated" when the same government will not allow me to do so.

Atagi 24 Dec

  • ATAGI recommends bringing forward the minimum interval between the primary course and the booster dose from 5 months to 4 months as soon as practical, noting the holiday period. It is understood that this is achievable from 4 January, although some providers may have flexibility to administer before that time.
  • In addition, as soon as practicalities allow, ATAGI recommends providing boosters to all eligible adults from a minimum of 3 months following the second dose of the primary course.

.....and the practicality is that the earliest that I can get a booster is 5-1/2 months after my last A-Z shot.

I can't help but suspect (strongly suspect) that either the vaccine, hardware or resources for administering same are simply not available.
But hey, you won't win a federal election by admitting that.



Australopithecus 27th Dec 2021 00:41

Yeah, the booster program for A-Z recipients is skewed against you. You can try your luck at a chemist. My wife went in and explained that she was a carer and she got the booster 3 weeks before she was due. Of course the next day they changed the recommendation from 5 to 4 months anyway.

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 00:45

I heard a Professor of Viral Disease ( or something like that) from UWA interviewed last week. He said that anyone that has had AZ should get a third shot ASAP as AZ is almost useless against omicron.

WingNut60 27th Dec 2021 01:00


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11161198)
Yeah, the booster program for A-Z recipients is skewed against you. You can try your luck at a chemist. My wife went in and explained that she was a carer and she got the booster 3 weeks before she was due. Of course the next day they changed the recommendation from 5 to 4 months anyway.

You would need to luck onto a pharmacy with vaccine.
All pharmacies & clinics in this area advise that they are not taking bookings until vaccine becomes available and that is not expected until the middle of January.

They can cut the recommendation to 3 days and it still won't get me a booster before 5-1/2 months.

C441 27th Dec 2021 01:30

If you're in Brissy and you're now eligible for a booster, shop around. I previously had an appointment for 5 months and a day after 2nd dose but was able to move that forward to Jan 4th (2 weeks earlier and closer to home) with a little search on Hotdoc.

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 01:51


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11161199)
I heard a Professor of Viral Disease ( or something like that) from UWA interviewed last week. He said that anyone that has had AZ should get a third shot ASAP as AZ is almost useless against omicron.

Useless as in preventing severe illness, or useless as in preventing infection?

Australopithecus 27th Dec 2021 01:54


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11161201)
You would need to luck onto a pharmacy with vaccine.
All pharmacies & clinics in this area advise that they are not taking bookings until vaccine becomes available and that is not expected until the middle of January.

They can cut the recommendation to 3 days and it still won't get me a booster before 5-1/2 months.

Why isn’t it available now? Some local chemists here have Moderna, and I got a Pfizer booster last week at a local clinic.

WingNut60 27th Dec 2021 02:22


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11161210)
Why isn’t it available now? Some local chemists here have Moderna, and I got a Pfizer booster last week at a local clinic.

Bl..dy good question. If you have an answer I'll be keen to hear it.

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 02:28


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11161208)
Useless as in preventing severe illness, or useless as in preventing infection?

Actually.. that is a very good question.

theheadmaster 27th Dec 2021 05:33


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11161213)
Bl..dy good question. If you have an answer I'll be keen to hear it.

I happened to be listening to the news when they announced that you could get a booster 5 months after initial vaccination course. As luck would have it, the announcement was made 5 months after my initial course, so I booked immediately and had my booster done at the local chemist a week later. The pharmacist told me they were surprised by the announcement, as it happened immediately AFTER chemists had to put in their vaccine order. She told me that I was lucky I booked straight away, as they were expecting demand would outstrip supply as they were unable to amend their order after the changed time frame announcement. Make of that what you will, being third hand information, but it appears consistent with people here not being able to get boosters this month.

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 09:39


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11161216)
Actually.. that is a very good question.

It's the kind of question you should be asking yourself before swallowing the crap the mainstream media feeds you and especially before regurgitating the same misleading statement to others

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 10:38


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11161296)
It's the kind of question you should be asking yourself before swallowing the crap the mainstream media feeds you and especially before regurgitating the same misleading statement to others

And your information comes from where? Information from YouTube?

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 10:41


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11161313)
And your information comes from where? Information from YouTube?

I can assure you I use YouTube for more entertaining purposes

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 11:03


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11161315)
I can assure you I use YouTube for more entertaining purposes


So please inform us of what you know. And who told you what you know. My Doctor rang me today to tell me to get my third shot in two weeks.. as I have had AZ. I assume she is telling me crap, because she listens to MSM?

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 11:22

WTF are you on about?? I have not provided this forum any information or opinion regarding covid or the vaccine. You however provided us with a very significant and possibly misleading statement regarding the vaccine and Omicron, which I questioned you on. You then admitted to not knowing the answer. So I’m calling you out on spreading possible misinformation.

Connie Wings 29th Dec 2021 10:52


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11153248)
Permits permits permits! As there is a lot of focus on the world 1 male tennis player refusing to prove vaccination to be able to play in the slam in Melbourne, he has already been registered to play. I would of thought given the current rules of entry for international arrivals he would be sent to HQ for 14 days if he does not provide evidence, there fore not to much of an issue at state level unless he does go to HQ and still try’s to compete. How would victorians feel if DA made an exemption for NJ to play!

Well, I gess this pandemia has shown worldwide that simply we are all the same, so far. It seems to me that selfish attitudes do not fit in this world anymore, and getting vaccinated is a humanitarian reason and has made the difference, saving lives. My conclusion is that no exemption should take place, in respect to Australians, as well as wordlwide people. Talking about athletes, they should be the examples so far, with good attitudes, otherwise think about lockdowns as a consequence of new COVID waves, which also affects their activities. Let's say, a very good example is RF, full of titles inside and also outside the courts.

Troo believer 29th Dec 2021 11:06

After much fanfare and backslapping, Qantas will no longer operate to London from early January. Emirates code share tickets only. Loads have obviously plummeted on the back of the UK’s current infection explosion, crushing any demand for travel to London.

goodonyamate 29th Dec 2021 11:41


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11162064)
After much fanfare and backslapping, Qantas will no longer operate to London from early January. Emirates code share tickets only. Loads have obviously plummeted on the back of the UK’s current infection explosion, crushing any demand for travel to London.

source please…..

Chris2303 29th Dec 2021 19:06


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11162064)
After much fanfare and backslapping, Qantas will no longer operate to London from early January. Emirates code share tickets only. Loads have obviously plummeted on the back of the UK’s current infection explosion, crushing any demand for travel to London.

QF1 is still showing as operating 27JAN

goodonyamate 29th Dec 2021 19:37


Originally Posted by Chris2303 (Post 11162223)
QF1 is still showing as operating 27JAN


I also checked a number of dates, which showed flights still operating. They are definitely cutting the frequency, however I dont think stopping altogether. I thought maybe 3 days a week or something. Not great for the crew now every port is classed as a D

Chris2303 29th Dec 2021 20:39


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 11162236)
I thought maybe 3 days a week or something.

And in fact that's what they announced recently

Transition Layer 30th Dec 2021 05:44


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 11162236)
I also checked a number of dates, which showed flights still operating. They are definitely cutting the frequency, however I dont think stopping altogether. I thought maybe 3 days a week or something. Not great for the crew now every port is classed as a D

The fairly significant change to Tier D for all ports has been nicely slipped into the manual without any explanation, while the managers enjoy their Christmas break. Classic Qantas :rolleyes:

aussieflyboy 30th Dec 2021 08:21

Are Qantas and Virgin paying for the RAT kits for domestic staff overnighting at different ports?

compressor stall 30th Dec 2021 10:24

More importantly it sounds like close contacts causing a whole aircraft to isolate is a thing of the past (except WA). That’s got to give a lot of hope to the travel industry.

SOPS 30th Dec 2021 10:32


Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 11162471)
More importantly it sounds like close contacts causing a whole aircraft to isolate is a thing of the past (except WA). That’s got to give a lot of hope to the travel industry.

Except… when a whole lot of people are sick.. because of these “wonderful” new laws … who will be on the aircraft and going on holidays ?

Icarus2001 30th Dec 2021 10:37


Except… when a whole lot of people are sick.. because of these “wonderful” new laws … who will be on the aircraft and going on holidays ?
Most people will have a cold for about a week. I know two people who have had it, vaxxed, a bad cold they said.

Chad Gates 30th Dec 2021 11:06

Just for those outside WA who actually care what we think (I know, I’m certain nobody does), every mate I’ve spoken to over the festive season, all of whom are not in the aviation industry say “let it rip, it’s time”. SOPS is now very much in the minority. We are all looking forward to reconnecting.

turbantime 30th Dec 2021 11:36


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11162480)
Most people will have a cold for about a week. I know two people who have had it, vaxxed, a bad cold they said.

Friends of ours had a headache for 2-3 days with no other symptoms (fully vaxxed). The bedwetters like SOPS have had their time in the sun; time to go back to hiding in a cave.

Fonz121 30th Dec 2021 12:52


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11162343)
The fairly significant change to Tier D for all ports has been nicely slipped into the manual without any explanation, while the managers enjoy their Christmas break. Classic Qantas :rolleyes:


If this is an attempt to stem the loss of crew I think they will find it achieves the opposite. 14 day trips contained in a hotel room? No thanks.

Clare Prop 30th Dec 2021 14:11


Originally Posted by Chad Gates (Post 11162496)
Just for those outside WA who actually care what we think (I know, I’m certain nobody does), every mate I’ve spoken to over the festive season, all of whom are not in the aviation industry say “let it rip, it’s time”. SOPS is now very much in the minority. We are all looking forward to reconnecting.

Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

goodonyamate 30th Dec 2021 17:47


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11162343)
The fairly significant change to Tier D for all ports has been nicely slipped into the manual without any explanation, while the managers enjoy their Christmas break. Classic Qantas :rolleyes:


all reverting to Tier C 👍🏻


I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.
very much looking forward to seeing who state daddy blames when it all turns to **** over there. The picture he paints about ‘the east’ is not quite accurate. Has he spent a single dollar on extra beds in hospitals etc? It’s amusing. I’ll give Maogowan one thing, he’s better at marketing than Scotty from marketing! Come feb 5th I guess you and SOP’s will be running in circles with steam coming out of your ears. Granted, perhaps the last 2 years have been relatively ‘normal’ for you over there, I wouldn’t know, I’d rather be amongst ‘the chaos in the east’ than the plethora of meth heads I used to come across in Perth city, but all you’ve done is kick the can down the road. Bought some time to prep your health system. But all he’s done is have press conferences.

Transition Layer 30th Dec 2021 18:39


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11162613)
Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Did you even listen to what happened today with the announcement from ScoMo? 14 days is a thing of the past.

You and SOPS should build a big house with a moat and ride this out there. The rest of us will catch it in the next few months and live happily ever after. Even your hero Lord McGowan said today that we can’t keep the borders closed forever. Finally I agree with him on something! February 5 will happen whether you like it or not.

P.S. We must move in very different circles. Friends of mine outside aviation realise the time has come to open. McGowan’s fear mongering is wearing thin.

Maggie Island 30th Dec 2021 19:27

As a West Australian I don’t trust the Emperor to honour that 5 Feb date, but do agree that he’ll have to capitulate sooner rather than later. I have a feeling the Iron Ore price won’t be particularly helpful to us this year either. Whoever wins federal government is in for an unpleasant mess.

Australopithecus 30th Dec 2021 20:00


Originally Posted by Maggie Island (Post 11162754)
As a West Australian I don’t trust the Emperor to honour that 5 Feb date, but do agree that he’ll have to capitulate sooner rather than later. I have a feeling the Iron Ore price won’t be particularly helpful to us this year either. Whoever wins federal government is in for an unpleasant mess.

Yesterday I was wondering how soon we can expect to see the GST start to creep up to 20%. My guess is within a year of the election.

Fonz121 30th Dec 2021 20:47


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 11162709)
all reverting to Tier C 👍🏻


Where was this seen or heard?

morno 30th Dec 2021 21:20


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11162613)
Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Mate it’s a lot harder to be considered a close contact anymore (WA excluded right at this very moment, but your emperor has even agreed with the new definition in principle), so the chances of ending up in 7 (what most of the country are reverting to for the vaccinated) days quarantine is much less.

How much longer would you like to hide under the bed covers for?

Tucknroll 30th Dec 2021 21:52

So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

rattman 30th Dec 2021 21:55


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11162800)
So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

Dont worry it will get better, there will be less testing so the numbers are going to go down

dr dre 30th Dec 2021 22:56


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11162800)
So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

NSW ICU Beds total: 1550

Estimated baseline non Covid ICU beds occupied at any one time: 387

September peak at 50% fully vaxxed: 242 (meaning all occupied ICU beds at 41% of max capacity)

Now: 69 ICU beds occupied, meaning total occupied ICU beds at 29% of capacity.

Now can you please define "breaking point" and "collapse" because that to me seems to be very far away from "collapse".

This is backed up by Prof Peter Collignon (he says NSW can get up to 2000 ICU beds if needed):

Pandemic is now 'endemic' on Australia's east coast - ABC PM

dr dre 30th Dec 2021 23:04


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11162613)
I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

I'm in WA and not a single person I've spoken to has said that. I've had medical professionals who have told me they're desperate to start traveling again. And Police sick of manning border checkpoints as glorified customs and wanting to get back on the street and hunt real crooks.

Poll also showing 2/3rds of West Aussies want to open Feb 5 or sooner so that's the majority opinion:

WA border: West Aussies keen to reopen on February 5 - if not sooner

Even McGowan yesterday was talking tougher internal restrictions in masks and vaccine passports because of surging cases post Feb 5 reopening, not one hint dropped that the border opening would be cancelled.


Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.
McGowan also confirmed WA would move to the looser definition of close contact and shorter isolation periods after the opening as cases increase.


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