Originally Posted by Gunner747400 (Post 11321230)

Stop quoting this figure like it actually means something significant.

The real pay rise is NOWHERE near 20%.

Originally Posted by EXEK1996 (Post 11321253)

Correct....as a CCB its north of 30% by 2025, even more depending on how much you work. The 787 people will do even better with the Highline allowance changes and their multi day trips.

Do your own sums but what the AFAP have delivered is way more than I thought possible particularly given the wages policy.

Each to their own of course but I am voting YES and will happily take the extra 55K min per year and live in Oz.

Originally Posted by Gunner747400 (Post 11321230)

Stop quoting this figure like it actually means something significant.

The real pay rise is NOWHERE near 20%.

Originally Posted by GA Driver (Post 11321312)

You sure about that??

Originally Posted by GA Driver (Post 11321322)

Divide increase from current wage by original= increase in %. Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by RealSatoshi (Post 11321329)

Increase from Current Wage / (Original Wage + What should've been added over the last couple of years if you were NOT Shafted) = More Accurate

Originally Posted by Roller Merlin (Post 11321324)

Paxed on duty recently after nil hotel booking nor transport booked for me on arrival. Been allocated a middle seat in row of four. Min rest then operated again early next morning. These are the issues that need to be fixed to warrant considering a YES vote.

Originally Posted by GA Driver (Post 11321333)

Sure, I agree with you.
But I asked this question a few posts back (not at you obviously) what are you wanting? Realistically?

The above post regarding hotels and transport, the current EBA ALREADY has stipulations in the agreement and they STILL don’t follow it. It will take someone with some balls to take them to fair work over it. No one’s bothered as yet and that includes me. I have serious doubts that voting no to an EBA is going to cure all hotel and transport issues.
I’ve bought it up with my manager and zero was done about it so I don’t bother doing those duties, because I CBF with those headaches mentioned. I leave it to the guys chasing the WDO’s and there seems to be plenty on those patterns…..

So back to issue, what would be an acceptable pay rise amongst everything else on offer?

Originally Posted by LostontheLOC (Post 11320855)

You’re right, it is simple FOI:

1. If you’re a fool and don't realise that there’s the worldnis a significantly bigger than Australian aviation and that job was about to give you a 20%+ payrise by mid 2025 which is FAR below the industry average locally and internationally, which still doesn't make way for the 2015 pay freeze which was promised to be recovered and only given that much because it's directed by the award, you’d vote YES,


2. If you realise that in fact being on an EBA where you don't have easy access to different arrangements, Flexi and carers lines, highline which is unreasonable as a level 2/3 FO, financial protection when delayed into a DDO at half rate and still no protection of your DDO because **** you all, the minimum increases in all allowances because again it's derived off what the minimum requirement, then you’d vote YES,


3. If you consider the companies investment in additional state of the art new aircraft where you might get a command in 8-10 years and you will never see the left seat of a wide body, where compared to QF with turn over and resignations you will get a WB command with in 16-18 years making it a feasible and broad range work environment compared to max overnights and paxing, no protections with rosters and no duty travel protection and a bidding system that's broken and a guaranteed 75.1 hours a month to make you take 4 standby days, you’d vote YES,


4. If you recognise the leave system has been broken for decades and now the company will make you take time off when you don't want it, you’d vote YES. However, if you’re sick of putting out fires every day you go into work because of lack of support, resources and manpower, want a better work life balance and a lower EFA, better protections for your work, duty travel, roster, OT and DDO's, hotels and transport standards and a cultural shift then potentially this isn't the deal for you.

Weigh up the priorities, read the document, don't believe anything that's not in writing and dismiss "promises"..

FOI you're not helping anyone when you spread misinformation like you are.

Originally Posted by ManillaChillaDilla (Post 11321367)

Considering there has been no pay rises for at least 4 years, in theory you could use 12% loss incurred plus that little thing about not being payed at all for 2 years.

That being the case, its easily argued that the current offer is really where we should have been as a starting point for negotiations for the current EA.

To bring the pilot group up to a realistic point of pay ( given the other conditions involved or lack thereof ) about another 10 to 15% would be reasonable. On top of what has been " negotiated ".

I guess the " special guests " at the roadshows can explain why we arent worth what others in the industry are.

Should be VERY interesting indeed.

MCD

Originally Posted by FOI (Post 11321928)

Ok, so by going through all your points one by one, I ascertain that you just want a lot more money without the inconvenience of the working for a living bit.

And it certainly isn’t me spreading misinformation. The only people I’m “not helping” are those like yourself that are intent on self destruction and bringing all of us down with your miserable outlooks on life.

If Qantas and your match box calculation theorem is correct and a left seat of one of their wide body aircraft in 16 years is feasible, then apply, pass their tests, join the queue and start the moaning process over there.

Originally Posted by LostontheLOC (Post 11321935)

​​​​There's not much to the substance you're bring to this conversation.

The base money isn't too far off, but it is lower than a threshold I personally would accept, I would like a significant rewrite of the protections around lifestyle - Your assumption is wrong.

Majority of the points you made are factually incorrect, hence why myself and others have corrected your misinformation - original statement stands, stop spreading misinformation, you're not helping anyone.

"If you don't like it, leave" rhetoric seems to be your go to. I'd rather make this employer a better place to work for everyone.

The pilot base has shown quite strongly that they can survive hardship from the last EA through to covid and now the QF IR bullying, if that take the pilot base to vote no and go to PIA then so be it, but again FOI, I would caution your decision before you read the, ironically delayed document.

Originally Posted by LostontheLOC (Post 11321935)

​​​​

The base money isn't too far off, but it is lower than a threshold I personally would accept, I would like a significant rewrite of the protections around lifestyle

Originally Posted by The Banjo (Post 11322341)

The reality is you will find few people earning our level of salary and having "a lifestyle". The company owns them 24/7 with demanding hours and corporate deadlines. Not sitting by the pool on a layover. Most of us have had a taste of reality during covid as a check and trainer stacking shelves at woolies etc. No responsibilty, great lifesytle but with a matching pay packet.
There are choices available in life.

Originally Posted by Willie Nelson (Post 11321904)

It may seem like an aside but hear me out. I listened to an interesting discussion on "The Money" the other day:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...times/14090348

This discussed central banks worldwide dropping historically low inflation targets of old such as the 2-3% band of the RBA in part, because policymakers are working against them (monetary policy versus fiscal stimulus) with ever increasing spending and in part, becase it leaves no lever left to pull when interest rates go to zero as they did. Governments are now also looking for inflation to cure the debt problem, which it can do to a large degree.