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So it begins! It's finally open.
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Website now has details of min requirements, etc.
There is a link to register your interest but direct entry S/O doesn't yet appear. I suspect it will appear on Monday morning as those jobs often have date restrictions on the back end as to when they open and close. Seems to be the website has gone live and the EOI hasn't quite opened yet. Passes in English and one or more of: Mathematics; Physics; Chemistry; at a level equivalent to NSW Higher School Certificate (HSC) level 4 or Awarded a Bachelor's degree in a relevant discipline in Aviation, Science, Maths or Engineering. Level 6 English proficiency (Expert) Australian citizen or Hold Australian Permanent Residency Status Hold a current passport with unrestricted access to all Qantas ports of call with at least 12 months validity Hold an Australian Air Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence, or Passed the Aeronautical Knowledge Examination for the Australian Air Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence. Hold a Part 61 Multi Engine Aeroplane Class Instrument Rating (excluding a Private Instrument Rating) Hold endorsements for IAP 2D and IAP 3D on Australian (Civil) Instrument rating. Hold a current Instrument Proficiency Check (MEA) 500 hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane (excluding hours in Command Under Supervision), or 300 hours in Command of a multi engine aeroplane (excluding hours In Command Under Supervision), or 250 hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane and 1000 hours as Co-Pilot of a multi crew, multi engine turbine aeroplane (excluding hours In Command Under Supervision), or 250 hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane (of which up to 100 hours may be In Command Under Supervision) and 1500 hours as Co-Pilot of a multi crew turbine aeroplane or 250 Hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane and 500 hours in Command of rotary wing aircraft (excluding hours In Command Under Supervision) Hold a current CASA Class 1 Medical Certificate |
Why do they insist on those educational requirements? Do they honestly think that it makes a better pilot?
I'm past the point where I'd want to fly for Qantas, but going by those requirements, my >10 years industry experience and thousands of hours in turboprops and jets is useless because I didn't get a pass in a few subjects at school and didn't need a degree? Outdated indeed. morno |
Morno
It's just a filter. Imagine how many thousands more applications they would get if it was just yr10? Why does Tiger insist on a full Atpl when Virgin doesn't? |
Passing high school isn't really an outdated requirement morno!
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Apart from acting as a filter it's also a way to show determination. If you really wanted to fly for QF but didn't have the educational requirements then doing a year 12 Maths/Physics bridging course is a way to show your desire for the role. Don't complain if you don't, plenty of people who didn't meet the educational requirements in the past have been proactive and completed bridging courses in order to meet the minimum standards.
And let's be honest, almost all other professions these days require a degree (and many graduates aren't getting far in their careers in a lot of areas unless they have done post graduate study) so for a position with such a high level of responsibility a year 12 education should be an ABSOLUTE minimum. |
Steve Holding very good for Maths / Physics bridging course.
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Moron, It's just a filter. Oh, for those asking about first year pay, don't forget you have a training wage of around 800 odd bucks a week for the first 3-6 months. So for those first year figures of 'around 100k', they'd be after being Cleared to the line. |
I agree with you morno.
If I had of completed year 12 it would've been 27 years ago, how would that be relevant now? I would like to think my recent achievements, work history and experience would hold more weight than what I did in school so long ago. |
Is a post grad masters degree equivalent of a Batchelors degree ?
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QF is a seniority airline.
Expectations are that new external joiners will join at the bottom. Previous experience is largely, if not totally, irrelevant except to decide whether you may get a shot at QF when they take externals....or not. They set the experience criteria - and provide info as to how their minimums may be achieved in some areas. If you are really aggrieved at their minimums/requirements etc then simply don't apply....sure THAT will fix 'em!! ;) Cheers all. |
Looks like the bench mark in pilot pay has moved up a notch or two, and may result in better deals for those lower down the food chain. Improved conditions may be in order to retain current employees as a pilot joining QF pulls up a chain of people behind him.
It would be nice to meet up for a beer with the pilot who got your turboprop job and the one who got his piston twin job and the one who got his first job on a 206 in the Kimberley, all because you landed an airline job. Drinks on them. |
Originally Posted by Livin
(Post 9526574)
I agree with you morno.
If I had of completed year 12 it would've been 27 years ago, how would that be relevant now? I would like to think my recent achievements, work history and experience would hold more weight than what I did in school so long ago. Lancer, I never said passing year 12 was an outdated requirement. What I said was why are they insisting that guys who are 30+ years old who have been in the industry for years (and so far I haven't fallen out of the sky because I spent most of my maths classes bludging), have this ridiculous requirement to have the education level of a 17 year old? As I said, I'm not even wanting to apply to Qantas (I see much better avenues overseas!), I just find it ridiculous that they still want that stuff. morno |
Maybe its the demographic they are after-without obvious discrimination!. They want under 30's with limited experience but who will give them a longer return on investment. In a Seniority based airline such as Qf, experience itself has zero value due to the nature of the system combined with the internal belief that they know better, so any previous experience is without value. It also works for the company rather than the workforce as it creates a captive pilot market, except for the few lucky enough to have timing that allows LWOP so they can go and gain some actual real world experience in far more challenging environments. If experience was valued a new hire with experience would expect a window seat similar to what BA does, whilst the inexperienced would start as S/O's.
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The reason for the minimas is to weed out the unsuitable.
To make it in this game you need to put the work in and continue to do so. The minimas merely reflect this. By meeting them, you demonstrate that you can study and put the work in that is required of an airline like qantas. Doing one TR is hard work on a jet. You'll probably do several in your first decade, then fly a new type for command. The company doesn't want to waste resources on somebody who could be a bad investment. |
Hold an Australian Air Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence, or Passed the Aeronautical Knowledge Examination for the Australian Air Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence. I know the traditional route is CASA CPL/MEIR + 7 ATPL written tests. However, for those in possession of ICAO ATPL, they are only required to complete only 2 written tests (AOSA and AHUF) provided they hold CASA MEIR for the purpose of CASA ATPL issuance.. Will QF accept CASA CPL/MEIR with ICAO ATPL + AOSA/AHUF passes? |
Will QF accept CASA CPL/MEIR with ICAO ATPL + AOSA/AHUF passes? Qantas used to require passes in Aussie ATPL subjects irrespective of whether you had converted an ATPL from o/s or not. The way I rea the requirement now is that if you've converted to an Aussie ATPL then that's enough and you don't need the subjects. If you don't hold an Aussie ATPL then you need passes in the Aussie ATPL subjects. Seems pretty clear really? |
I'll have a go at some of these.
Originally Posted by Berealgetreal
(Post 9525419)
NARROW BODY Q's: Can I ask, are allowances on top of that? Say 15k cash? How many days at home per 28 days are you getting? I assume you'd be clearing about 10-11k a month. How much duty per month/annum or stick per year? Depends on where you are in the rotation. I've heard of those at the top,only working as little as 9-10. They're big days no doubt. Those at the bottom can work 18- 19. Rotation is 13 months I think. Stick is well north of 750. I've heard of some crew pushing north of 900. More stick= more $$$. Note. I'm not a SH pilot and never have been. I've worked on the LH award for nearly 22 years.
Originally Posted by Berealgetreal
(Post 9525419)
WIDEBODY Q's:
Is it fair to say that if you are on the 330 you are away a lot (no day trips)? How does it work? Two big trips a month or multiple small trips? How many days at home? Will a new-hire sit on reserve or what you call a "blank line" in Sydney the whole time? When will recruitment to 330 stop and become 787 recruitment? So a first year so gets 100, could you expect overtime and allowances on top and if so how much? How much would a new hire be clearing? How many trips depends on the fleet and your seniority in it. A330 trip length for S/Os varies from 3 days to 9 days at the moment. S/O trips tend to be a bit more dense so normally at least half days at home. New hires are likely to do one full roster, then a blank line (8 weeks) of reserve and then it'll be 12-18 months before they're on reserve again. I'd be very surprised if there was much sitting around on it given the shortage at the moment. Recruitment to the 787 is likely May(ish) next year at the earliest. Approx first 100 new joiners go to the A330. Pay figures including allowances were mentioned a couple of pages back. There will be a bit of overtime on top but not huge and not worth budgeting for. If shortage continues it could be more. If it eases so will the additional $$$. If you work on $100K into the ATO rates and divide by 26 that will be what you clear. Allowances are essentially tax free on top. Hope that helps. |
Originally Posted by Berealgetreal NARROW BODY Q's: Can I ask, are allowances on top of that? Say 15k cash? How many days at home per 28 days are you getting? I assume you'd be clearing about 10-11k a month. How much duty per month/annum or stick per year? Minimum 10 days per 28 at home, but if you're at the top of the bidding rotation and doing high density flying you can be home for closer to 18/28 and only work 9-10 as Keg said. You can also elect to work on those extra days off for extra $ $10k clear/month is about right for 1st year F/O, can give more accurate numbers if you need them from the EBA. I've averaged a little under 800hrs stick a year in the past 5 years. Cheers |
Bridging courses
I failed Maths /Physics at school.
Getting a job in QF was my ultimate professional dream. I enjoyed the road there,,,, Cape York bush pilot then Regional Turboprop. What I yearned for though was financial security, to fly well maintained equipment, to be trained by some of the best in the Profession, an opportunity to contribute to a proud 90 year history, an Australian Capital City base to finally put down roots, finally be able to commit fully to finding love, get married and live happily ever after. Happy to report 20 years later I still thank my younger self for having the drive, dream, tenacity and courage to put in the hard (but enjoyable nevertheless) yards. It's been all I hoped for. Whilst others bitched and moaned or partied their young days away I did Steve Holdings Maths over a 4 week annual holiday and completed a Physics bridging course with Rocky Uni via correspondence. I consciously surrounded myself with like minded individuals with positive outlooks and goals. My personal motto was (borrowed from the World Cup winning Wallabies of the day) "Long after the pain is forgotten - the quality remains" A job in QF doesn't come easy. QF wants highly motivated self starting individuals. Can't be bothered doing everything it takes to get a shot at the title? (You can't say you haven't had enough time to get everything organised) You're not what QF is looking for then IMHO. |
QF wants highly motivated self starting individuals. Hold a current CASA Class 1 Medical Certificate |
I don't know.
You're the one with the incentive to find out. Have you taken the first step and called / contacted the appropriate individuals in CASA / QF to ascertain an answer? My younger self without hesitation would have booked an Avmed exam online and flew to Aus on days off to tick the box after confirming this was the only option available. |
Originally Posted by EY_Airbus
(Post 9527406)
So how does a highly motivated Aussie individual stuck in the sandpit with a current GCAA medical apply for this position? :ugh:
Designated Aviation Medical Examiners - Overseas |
Keg,
I don't think lee_apromise's query is that clear cut, I have had the same one for a few months. Holding a CASA CPL MEIR and the 7 ATPL conversion exam credits leaves you with the flight test to sit to obtain the license. Holding a foreign ATPL MEIR and the 2 ATPL foreign conversion exam credits also leaves you with the flight test to sit to obtain the license. Two candidates with either qualifications are in same position with respect to obtaining their ATPL when time permits. Now I understand there is a difference in theory content between the two avenues - not necessarily lesser - just different, depending on which overseas ATPL syllabus you have completed. The QF website now only states passed the 'ATPL aeronautical knowledge examination' or similar words. This leaves is open to interpretation as to what theory credits are acceptable. I have queried a number of other major Aussie carriers recruitment departments and their reply has generally been, 'apply and we will consider your application on an individual basis'. Not so clear cut. It would be great if someone has a definitive answer or has an experience to share regarding this? |
Holding a CASA CPL MEIR and the 7 ATPL conversion exam credits leaves you with the flight test to sit to obtain the license. Holding a foreign ATPL MEIR and the 2 ATPL foreign conversion exam credits also leaves you with the flight test to sit to obtain the license. Two candidates with either qualifications are in same position with respect to obtaining their ATPL when time permits. Just to be clear, to be in the same boat as traditional CASA CPL/MEIR + 7 ATPL subjects, ICAO ATPL holder must have CASA CPL with MEIR with passes in AOSA and AHUF. When does QF S/O receive ATPL flight test? Is it done concurrently with their type rating if one meets Part 61 ATPL minimum flight experience? I emailed QF and am waiting for their reply. It would be nice to know a definitive answer for Australians working in overseas with ICAO ATPL for future reference. |
I don't think QF do your ATPL flight test. Anyone?
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
(Post 9527419)
I don't know.
You're the one with the incentive to find out. Have you taken the first step and called / contacted the appropriate individuals in CASA / QF to ascertain an answer? My younger self without hesitation would have booked an Avmed exam online and flew to Aus on days off to tick the box after confirming this was the only option available. |
I'm applying. EK 777 captain. My mates are too.....
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Motley,
It would be great to see many of you back here. Lifestyle is great, money is good, not doing 100+ stick hours, no back of the clock night returns to the sub continent, no armed escorts to your hotel to/from some airports, and you will have a life expectancy past 60years old. Good luck with the application! :ok: |
Happy to be corrected, but don't believe any regulatory sims/checks conducted in QF can be counted as an ATPL flight test. It needs to be done off your own back.
If you are working overseas, its not as simple as some make it sound, esp. if your test needs to take place in one of the heavy jet sims. A mute point, but can anyone shed light on QF staff travel policy / benefits? |
Originally Posted by motley flight crue
(Post 9527451)
I'm applying. EK 777 captain. My mates are too.....
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Qantas will do the flight test for ATPL when they require one for your promotion course. Longhaul F/O or Shorthaul Command if you have not already got one.
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Ok. Thanks for the clarification re the issues WRT the Aussie ATPL. If someone can PM me a synopsis I'll cut and paste it,top and tail it and try and get a definitive answer.
Further, on Friday and this morning the link that says register your EOI doesn't yet show up Trainee S/O when you search it. The intent was to not go live for external applicants until later this coming week. In the mean time the website was updated with current information and was supposed to say to expect the EOIs to open soon. The link was added before the vacancies have been 'opened' in the Taleo job site. Expect it after Wednesday. I'll update more when I know. |
Sorry to ask the same question twice but would a post grad Masters degree in a science related subject cover the education requirement without the Bachelor degree?
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Originally Posted by bangbounceboeing
(Post 9527675)
Sorry to ask the same question twice but would a post grad Masters degree in a science related subject cover the education requirement without the Batchelor degree?
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Originally Posted by bangbounceboeing
(Post 9527675)
Sorry to ask the same question twice but would a post grad Masters degree in a science related subject cover the education requirement without the Batchelor degree?
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On the bright side, for those who leave EK to QF-be it the LWOP guys or experienced Captains, at least there will actually be some international experience in the cockpit again on a QF flight, something that has been sadly lacking in QF since it withdrew from most international routes. :}
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On the bright side, for those who leave EK to QF-be it the LWOP guys or experienced Captains, at least there will actually be some international experience in the cockpit again on a QF flight, something that has been sadly lacking in QF since it withdrew from most international routes. |
C2L,
It's a bit of a cheap shot to disparage QF crew because they may not have the network that you enjoy, if it was left to the crew we would be going to every point on the planet, but unlike some other operators owners who think their fleet size is an extension of their appendage, we, as a publically listed company have to be responsible to the multitude of share holders and i guess at this point of time unlimited international destinations isn't a viable proposition. Oh, and Good luck with getting your dogs home. http://www.snoopypets.com |
Pilots. What a unique breed we are. Only pilots can turn a positive subject about more jobs for all into pork ruler measuring exercise.
How is it that YOU, as so-called professional pilots be charged with the carriage of hundreds of paying customers (including members of my family) and PAID to not rush decisions, make such awful, flippant, quick-to-judge comments to your fellow colleagues (under the guise of so-called wit?). And you wonder why pilots are losing professional credibility these days? You only have yourselves to blame. Fuel-Off :ok: |
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