No. And I’m told the recruitment was entirely from within the group, no externals.

Whoever is telling you that isn’t being entirely truthful. There are externals. Anyway, good luck to them

These externals, are they pilots off the street?

The job ad was on the QF jobs website until only a few days ago, type rated pilots only.

Excluding anyone without 717 time despite the externals probably needing an endorsement anyway is odd indeed. Especially when (I believe) Alan assured the pilot group that there would be no external hires.

Well if AJ has assured the pilot group this won't happen , then it is a done deal
It could be done without pomp & ceremony , no need for "authorities" , precedents or instruments or case law
or singing & dancing by the AIPA ; it really was a very simple thing to accomplish
The point I was making was that it didn't make a whole of sense to see the position advertised to externals
Think some of the big men & legends of pprune need to get a job/do further study as you won't be back for a couple of years

"Jetstar will NEVER be more than 12 aircraft"
"All F/o's and S/o's will have the chance to bid for promotion in the next 5 years"
"Jetstar will never fly internationally"
"Jetstar Hong Kong is amazing"
"Red Q is amazing"
"Jetstar Asia is amazing"

Trusting Management to not go back on their word...worked out well for the Ground Staff, most who are having their last day today.

You really are naive and lack any experience in IR negotiations Telfer

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....87e0f4f46.jpeg
Don’t forget, they don’t care about us

I can't work out if you're being facetious or just really naive. A gentlemen's agreement with the company is only valid for as long as it suits them. As soon as it doesn't—all bets are off and they won't bat an eyelid.

100% correct,u have to remember they are never wrong,its always the passengers or the media or the opposition(airline) or the employees or just the person that speaks up against them that is wrong.
They are a pack of right fighters & above all criticism & many laws also,money talks.

All great pilot fraternity jingoistic stuff , just unlikely to reflect reality

"Jetstar will NEVER be more than 12 aircraft"

Who & when said this. Obviously JQ had to reach 20 to 30 plus aircraft in the early days
This was never said by QF senior management

"All F/o's and S/o's will have the chance to bid for promotion in the next 5 years"

Again who & when was this said ? Doubt it was ever said
Even it it was, it is more of an economic forecast, which is what pilot promotions are ,depend on economic drivers , the world economy.
Which nobody at QF controls. Using such strong words of "all" & "will" - doubt it

"Jetstar will never fly internationally"

Again who said , and when ? Would obviously preclude them from going to NZ.
Challenge you to produce the time/day/person - it was never said

"Jetstar Hong Kong is amazing"
"Red Q is amazing"
"Jetstar Asia is amazing"

Have to concede the QF management, made every rookie error that could be made when they went to HK
& shot their mouths off about what they were going to do with JQ HK. When they had none of the ducks lined up.
You can get away with that kind of sh*t in Australia , but not in Asia. Don't turn up in Asia and do the "Aussie, Aussie , Aussie"
it just doesn't go down well. The end result , the local players lost face & went after QF, the end end result - no AOC granted
Think they lost $100 M (AUD) maybe even $200 M - Aussie Aussie Aussie

1. Geoff Dixon, South Leagues Club, AIPA meeting 2002-ish.
2. Geoff Dixon, he didn't "say" this one, he wrote it, in a letter to all mainline crew in about 2003. I threw mine out but I know at least one copy still exists.

1. Maybe it was wayyyy more successful than they thought. They’d be stupid not to pursue it further then.

2. Come on, surely you blokes at QF have been around long enough not to hang your hat on that furphy :hmm:

The wording is important, and they’re not stupid. They wouldn’t say, for example, ‘Jetstar will never fly internationally’. What they say instead (and certainly did, in this case), is ‘There are no plans for Jetstar to fly internationally’. Which translates to ‘We have every intention of doing this, but haven’t quite finalised the plans yet.’

Telfer, I don’t know what your game is here, but the only person you’re convincing is yourself. Oh, and here’s the letter in question (not that I knew anyone who really believed it at the time):


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2390c4bfe.jpeg

To be fair on old Geoffrey, the GFC kicked off about 2 weeks after the ink on that letter dried.

Wording is important, exactly. “Expect” means nothing.

If anyone made financial decisions based upon “expect”, then fools they are.

Your very letter there says that JQ would be getting 787’s. What did you think they were going to do with them? :hmm:

:rolleyes: That’s exactly the point that we’re trying to make. Telfer believes that handshakes, gentleman’s agreements and the like would produce a worthwhile outcome here. History suggests otherwise, as does the wording the company likes to use in its assurances.


WTF are you on about? Where did anyone say that the assurances about JQ not flying internationally happened at the same time as that letter came out? (They were about 3 years apart, from memory.) I think you’re missing the point here for the sake of being argumentative.

The comments about JQ not flying international were early in the piece. May have even been the same meeting where they talked about 12 aeroplanes. I recall something like ‘international flying doesn’t fit the low cost model’ or similar?

Is that ‘12’ the same as an Alliance ‘3’ or even ‘14’?

Amazing how 14 years later the rhetoric hasn’t changed. Yet bit by bit, the chipping continues.

What amazes me the most is that mainline pilots have sat back and accepted this with little more than a whimper, a PA and a red tie.

Correct Keg, those statements were made earlier, in 2004/ 2005, about the same time as the infamous "polluting our culture" occurred when AIPA's President (Woods) "negotiating" (that's one word for it) Mainline Pilots request to crew JQ.
Arthur D- also correct, whilst most of LH and over 1/2 of SH continue to be Stood Down, "Useful Work" is found for other crew in the Group. Yesterdays announcement will accelerate the reduction in crew numbers in B737 ADL base, whilst Perth B737 base continues to see a reduction in flying due to the arrival last week of another A320 for Network- does that make it 9? AIPA response? "We have a few questions..."...that from the email..is hardly reassuring..reach for the pineapple...again.


Back on topic- Qantas Mainline Recruitment? My opinion ...Not for the next 8 years.