Yep, I think it's going to be a very long wait.

This post may be waaaay off base, I might be reading some sort of pattern into randomness, but what the hell, I'll speculate on the Douglas R. Hofstadter / Escher negative space "There exist formal systems whose negative space (set of non-theorems) is not the positive space (set of theorems) of any formal system" that posts #2446 & #2247 leave anyway.

The speculation is this. There is trouble with crewing the 737 for First Officers, particularly out of the East Coast. There is also a problem with Qantas being able to recruit directly to the 737, every pilot must be employed initially as a Second Officer Under Training (SOT). However, if one looks very closely at the Qantas EBA9, one notes a SOT pay is $6,545 per 56 days or approx $42,700 pa. A first year 737 FO could expect around between double & triple that number.

Therefore, if an offer of employment is made to a recruit, on the basis of becoming a B787 SOT, without a course Second Officer course date until 2020 (all initial recruits should be assigned to the 787 anyway), they could expect to languish on $42K based in SYD as an office gopher for an extended period of time. However, if the immediate possibility of a 737 FO slot becomes available and the recruit actively bids for that position, they may well be able to start a 737 course on day two of employment, For those that have their heart set on being and SO only initially, and they renege on bidding for the 737 in return for an offer of employment, then it is a poorly paid flying position doing ground duties for quiet some time as there won't be any 787 SO course for a while.

In short, an offer of employment is likely to be made to those applicants with the requirements to become a 737 FO in any base, who indicate they would immediately & actively bid for a 737 FO position once employed, there is an embedded penalty (a significant period as an SOT) for those who choose to exercise their right to not bid once employed.

However, just speculation on my behalf, consistent with the known facts and limitations. Quite a creative & diabolical solution to their problems if it is becomes reality.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a36384922e.jpg

What are the requirements to bid for an 737 FO position?

CPL with credits in all ATPL subjects is the only hard and fast requirement. There would also need to be an assessment of previous experience to be deemed suitable. Bare minimum single pilot time is not going to be enough, multicrew of Dash8 size, LHS time or significant RHS time would cut it.

So hearing whispers of external applicants on hold files potentially for 2.5-3 years and no more external recruitment for quite some time. Is this true?

Hi Keg,

Are those courses likely to go ahead or could possibly be pushed back again as they are over stocked in the SO ranks?

Also, are all the courses going forward likely to be B787 or will there be some A330 slots in there as well?

Thanks Keg

Anyone in the know able to comment on the medium/long term plan on external hiring? ie would there still be external hiring once the in-house flight schools are running at full steam?

Gligg, if you look very carefully at the word used, you will able to decode QF's intent: Qantas Group Pilot Academy In partnership with FTA . Everything you need to understand is on that page, you just need to consider the inferences.

Group is the operative word. Within the group, the biggest shortage is on the DASH-8's. Graduates from the Academy could reasonably expect to go to DASH land to gain sufficient experience to go into the RHS of a B737 or an A32x. That is the current pipeline, and I would expect it to continue fore the foreseeable future.

Externals will still be important to moderate the flow out of the regionals, particularly if you have experience to enable direct to the 737 RHS . QF have to throw a bone to the regionals through mainline opportunities in a reasonable time so they don't leave the group once they have experience, but they have to balance the attrition rate to be able to keep the aircraft flying, which I believe is quite a challenge.

Quite right CT.

A little bit of product placement (The Qantas reference) is the bait...The fine print tells a different story...The switch sees the newly indebted graduate at any of the increasing number of entities flying derelict machines for less money than the glossy brochure intimated.

Caveat emptor.

Is there a better option?

Airline job logging multi-crew hours from day one. Onto a 6 figure salary quite quickly. Employed within Australia's major airline group. Quicker to to command, major airline or jet employment.

Alternative: No guaranteed work upon graduation. Multitude of casual or non permanent GA jobs to begin with. Spend an indefinite number of years there before getting into a major airline group. Any saving on training costs would be quickly offset by lower wages. Fly aircraft that are definitely more derelict than option A.

A quick look around shows the cost of an average CPL in Australia roughly about $70k, IR about $20k, and ATPL theory and MCC about $5k each.

From the FTA website it's about $125k from zero to CPL, IR, ATPL and MCC as part of their Academy course.

Not too much of an extra expense for a more defined career path IMHO.

Nothing is guaranteed in life. Don't meet the standards on the course? Not getting through. No argument there.

Economy in the gurgler upon graduation? Probably won't get employed, but then GA employment will be in trouble too.

Still a better prospect than a random flying school with nothing really guaranteed at the end, at least there's a more defined path here. And I would probably guess a higher priority in employment for Academy graduates than those who aren't. If not all of those who graduate the academy have a position within the group upon graduation then that means there's a minuscule chance for non Academy graduates.

If you don't go to a big money grab school you should be able to get a CPL with NVFR for $60k or less. MEIR is about $20k and ATPL about $5k if you mostly self study (it is possible). No need to waste money on an MCC. So $85k versus $120k isn't something I can rationalize by thinking that a big name school will help you with a job. It won't and can sometimes hurt you as some employers have bad experiences with sausage factory grads