Old partners British Airways show how it's meant to be done,by sacking its Chief Executive. With a far longer & worse track record of inconsistent (conflicting) media statements, lies & deception, not to mention the smoke & mirrors accounting, surely this has to be the next inevitable step for the QF (mis)Management?

Twins?
 

Too many similarities between Joyce and Ayling to mention!
Both had 4 to 5 years as CEO, both think their work ability was strong and were surprised at criticism, both have presided over massive profit losses, both have experimented with legacy parts of their airlines and have failed, both have/had nil trust or confidence from their employees, both have presided over incredibly damaging decisions that have cost their airlines dearly, both have taken reputable legacy airlines and national icons and turned them into cluster f#cks, do I need to continue...........Amaaaazimg stats. Long lost twins?

P.S And hopefully soon, very soon both can say their CEO was pushed!

Um, small point, don't think Robert Ayling was sacked today.That happened years ago.

I'm guilty of posting the Ayling/Joyce comparison on here a few years ago, I watched the Ayling BA debacle unfold when I was working in the UK, painful to watch but Joyce is worse, some say he started his Australian career helping to wreck Ansett :E now he is doing a fine job under the guidance of LC to do the same to Qantas?



I think it is pretty fair to say Joyce's days are numbered and let's hope LC and the board as well, in my view. They are very poor business leaders.

Don't worry he'll be gone soon as he will the next Governer General. Whatever.

The current situation is a re run of 2011.

I'm guessing the next dribble we will hear from AJ is: "the current uncertainty is causing a loss of confidence amongst our passengers. We are seeing a concerning collapse in forward bookings"

The guy needs to go before passengers loose complete confidence in the management team.

The AIPA really needs to support and back up comments by other Unions and the likes of Nick Xenophon that the only way forward is for AJ, Clifford and the board to be removed. They have not accepted ANY responsibility for the demise of qantas under their watch.

There is no way that these clowns can fix what they have all but destroyed because they simply refuse to acknowledge that their strategies are wrong.

The only hope for Qantas is that they go and are replaced by a new management team with the right vision.

A strong united voice from the majority of Qantas employees denouncing this abysmal team and expressing a vote of absolute no confidence would help cut through the BS excuses and blame everyone and everything else game that AJ is indulging in!!

The comparison between BA and Qantas is interesting, but not for the reasons given.

There was a time when BA had a competitor called Virgin that was running rings around it, but not anymore. BA went through a fair bit of pain to restructure itself, but is now expanding rather than contracting and made a profit of €477m in the last quarter. Virgin Atlantic is due to report three straight years of heavy financial losses.

The big difference between BA and Qantas is that BA decided to favour the 777 over the 747 in the late 90s. Since the end of the joint-venture between BA and Qantas BA claims that the financial performance of LHR-SYD over Q2 and Q3 of this year improved by £30m compared to the last financial year. A big factor in this is BA's decision to replace the 747 with the 77W.

Almost every new/reinstated long-haul route BA has added over the past few years (Seoul, Chengu, Tokyo Haneda, Buenos Aires direct, San Diego) has been served with the 777.

I'm not sure if everybody views this a seriously as i do. I believe the window of opportunity for Qantas to survive is getting smaller by the day. Firstly, the board by backing Joyce are saying we will all go down together. Instead of doing the correct thing and getting rid of him they are indicating that they know that if Joyce goes that as they have backed him and his strategies that they also must go. Secondly, by selling either Jetstar or the frequent flyer scheme, the books would be opened up especially if it was via a float a major accounting firm would have to sign off on the prospectus. Problem, in the case of Jetstar the truth would finally be revealed as to how much the parent was subsidising it and with the frequent flyer scheme the truth would be revealed as to what they pay for the seats they redeem on Qantas flights. I believe it is around about 50% of retail. Can i see a train wreck coming? Yes? Joyce and the board are liike a rabbit caught in the headlights. They are stunned. The aaaammmazzing management team dont know what to do.

Funny that the internal simon hickey webinar for the 9th got canned on Wednesday the day before this dropped. Perhaps not wanting to answer too many questions about their amaaazing pillar strategy. Muppets

It could be a strategy as Keg suggest but they would have to be clever to execute a strategy and I don't think they are. As for the general he has lost it. No ash he ain't.

In my earlier post I should have said `Australia New Zealand and the Pacific Forum' not this thread, which as someone else quite rightly pointed out has been going for less than a month.
Before diving into any thread about Qantas - you have to steel yourself for the whining.
The market will deal and is dealing with you guys - it's Darwinian.
The problem ain't the management or the Board.
Good on Joyce for grounding you - the little guy's got balls the size of watermelons.
Nope - he's not the problem.
The problem is the significant majority of the Qantas workforce that think they're entitled to a job no matter what, and led by moronic unions that have no grasp of the fundamentals of business or economics.
I suspect you're all going down, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Unless Abbott and co blink at the last minute and pull an Air NZ on you.
Personally, I'd leave you to the wolves.
And now I'll tell you what I really think...

Don't feed the troll... use the ignore button instead.

It's not trolling buddy.
It's just the view of many, many people watching this sad debacle :rolleyes:

Hey Tartare you silly git, you must have been born of the union of two siblings mate.

Tartare.

Why then was Qantas mainline making billion dollar profits before the little guy appeared on the scene?

The one constant has been the staff. In fact the staff have given pay freezes in difficult times. Whilst management financially rewarded themselves at the same time.

The variables are the Qantas strategy, Australian dollar, foreign and domestic competition, fuel costs etc

Alan Joyce's strategy for the Qantas group maybe the best strategy for the current environment. But he and the Qantas board are not the people to deliver it.

The CEO & board have lost the support of the entire workforce. There needs to be an entire clean out. Delivering new faces with fresh strategies. If the new board and CEO agree that the current strategy is working and the way forward for the Qantas group. Employees would join them for the ride. But I would be surprised if a new board of CEO would continue on the current path of self destruction.

In short. The board and CEO have lost the trust of their employees & nothing will change while they are still running the show.

MC

Step 1/ sack the board and the CEO
Step 2/ pay Rob Fyfe his asking price to run the show
Step 3/ watch Qantas become a proud airline once again

Really?
And not your overheads?
Or workforce productivity?
There are some great people at QF out on the line - but they're in the minority.
Tenretni's comment is indicative of the sort of mentality I'm talking about.
Oh - and Robbie Fyfe is not the answer.
The problems at QF would be far too difficult for him.
Trust me - I worked with him for two and a half years.

People avoid booking on airlines that are going to go bust.

Pitty your CEO is in the news saying the end is near.

Omni

True but to be honest I think there's a bit more to it than just airframes. Whilst we at BA had the Openskies debacle a while back we've now got a Union and more importantly two CEO's (Walsh and now Keith Williams), who whilst definitely being "hard" are prepared to indulge in meaningful debate with the workforce and have been prepared to give a bit in an attempt to keep the mainline workforce onside and a going concern. It seems to me (from afar) that those at QF have no such luxury, just an asset stripper (do I hear calls of "no **** Sherlock").

All that aside it pains me to see what's going on at QF. I lived in Oz for a while but I can't pretend to understand the deep seated politics of all this. I know you guys ( and girls) deserve better. Good luck.

Qantas Airways to slash 1,000 jobs!!
 

AP. Airline will also freeze pay for all employees and cut the salaries of executives

SYDNEY — Qantas Airways said today (Dec 5) it will slash 1,000 jobs and suffer half-year losses of at least A$250 million (S$284 million), increasing the likelihood that regulators will throw the flag carrier a lifeline by easing restrictions on foreign ownership.

Lower demand, a strong Australian dollar and steep fuel costs have put pressure on the airline, which warned that conditions are expected to remain volatile next year.
“The challenges we now face are immense but we will overcome them,” CEO Alan Joyce said in a statement. “The Australian international market is the toughest anywhere in the world.”
Qantas said it expects to post pre-tax losses of between A$250 million and A$300 million for the six months ending Dec 31.
In a bid to save A$2 billion over three years, the airline plans to ax at least 1,000 jobs within 12 months, freeze pay for all employees and cut the salaries of Mr Joyce and other executives.
The news sent Qantas stock plummeting, with the price dropping as much as 17 per cent.
A range of measures to help the airline have been considered.
Last month, Australia’s Treasurer Joe Hockey suggested the government may need to change rules that currently limit foreign ownership in the airline to 49 per cent.
Earlier this year, Qantas attempted to boost its struggling international division by signing a 10-year partnership with Dubai-based rival Emirates.

The group hasn't had any effective leadership for a long time. The staff can't relate to AJ or any of his immediate subordinates. Combine that with throwing good money after bad towards cock ups like Red Q ,Jetstar Japan, Jetstar Pacific etc while QF belt around in clapped out 767's to ever fewer destinations and you have what you see here now. I agree that the fact that Australian workers are heavily unionised makes it trickier to achieve the same productivity as overseas competitors, but Australian carriers can make money if run well. With strong leadership and a simple transparent strategy all QF employees would be pulling in the same direction. As it stands now most don't even know what their goal is because the posts seem to move every six months.
As for overheads, of course , all that is required is a competent board and CEO, I imagine the first thing a new team would do is to stem the flow of money into offshore start ups that return nothing. That's a given, what isn't a given is descent leadership.
Anyway, that's just my opinion, I hope the staff get some good news soon, something they can hang their hats on and work towards.

Perhaps they should sell out to the other UAE airline in Abu Dhabi if the cap is lifted. They seem to specialize in taking on lame ducks.

Trading halt is pending an announcement from Standard & Poors. I assume that this means QAN has been downgraded to junk status. Once an airline is downgraded, they rarely come back.

WHAT IDIOT WOULD BUY QANTAS ?
 

You'd be buying one huge debt !!!

I read I think in the Fin Review that if this happens Qantas might have to hand back to credit card companies up to $2Billion for airfares purchased but not flown.

Virgin only gets the money when the flight is taken.

Got any figures to back that up bnea320?:confused::rolleyes:

The news just gets better and better:uhoh:

About time AJ and the board got the flick

Dear Mr Strambi,

As a long serving Qantas employee, I am devastated by what is happening to this great airline. You have asked for ideas and suggestions to help turn Qantas around and save the airline. I must request the first thing the senior executive management of the airline do is reflect on their own decisions and leadership and how those decisions, leadership and strategic direction has led to the current situation.

The strategy under Mr Joyce has clearly failed. The Qantas mainline operation has suffered from a lack of focus since Mr Joyce became CEO. It is only when the reality of the dire situation facing Qantas became evident, that any effort was turned towards Qantas mainline. This lack of focus has enabled Virgin to not only catch up to Qantas, but surpass Qantas in customer experience, equipment and most importantly innovation. Qantas was once very good at innovation that enabled it to be ahead of the market and permit a premium to be charged. Under the current management, Qantas is now reactionary and falling increasingly behind. A simple example is trans-continental flights. Virgin is now far ahead in cabin amenities with Qantas more than 12mths behind in offering a similar consistent product.

Mr Joyce says Qantas is fighting with one hand tied behind its back and the playing field is uneven. Qantas frontline staff have been doing exactly the same and facing exactly the same situation because of management for years. Our product is inconsistent, aircraft dated and uneconomical. We are often short in catering and our frontline staff and cabin crew are forever forced to apologise to customers spending more time on "customer recovery" than just about anything else. I acknowledge there has been considerable recent effort to address these shortcomings but unfortunately it is too little too late and I feel employees have now completely lost trust with senior management.

Mr Strambi, you now have a choice. Mr Joyce needs to go and you need to show your hand. Do you support Mr Joyce and the five years of failed strategy, if so you should honour the failures of management and offer your resignation along with Mr Joyce. Alternatively, you can step up and publicly offer yourself as an alternative CEO and outline a vision to save Qantas.

It's crunch time Mr Strambi and time to stand up.

Regards,

A loyal Qantas employee

Qantas Int to become QanStar or Jetas ?
 

sounds like Qantas Int is soon to become all Jetstar.


Can a 787 easily do SYD/LAX ? or more importantly LAX/SYD ?


This has be coming for a long time.


Sounds like the plan is to bankrupt Qantas Int & then pay Jetstar type salaries to everyone.


Will Jetstar Int have 2 "divisions", ie. old Qantas routes like to LAX be an upgraded version of JQ at lower than VA/DL/UA prices ?

the the

did you sign it, date it and stick it in the post?

What a disaster. Obviously geography does not favor Qantas (Australia doesnt make a good connecting hub). That said, blame Joyce and the previous 2-3 CEOs who made so many strategic blunders over the last 10-15 years. Why did Qantas not order 777s in the latter 90s and establish a stronger international network exploiting expanding Asian markets? So many questions and few good answers...

Well done IT, your ignorance is spot on and reflective
of the deep thinking and investigative skills of Australian
Media reporting on this simple issue.

Watch as Alan outsources all international flights to EK and establishes Jetstar as the sole domestic carrier.

If there is a ratings downgrade watch the share price plummet as funds are required to sell due to their investment mandate.

Wouldn't be surprised if announcement is made after 4pm so bad news gets lost in the weekend/Mandela's passing etc.

The The,
You do make some good points re catering, transpac product and recovery.
QF is way too late with its upgraded A330 product in particlar.

But on the flipside innovations that the customer has seen including the QBagTag, QCard, ipads on 767/717. But on the whole despite slipups I still think the overall customer experience is better on QF - meals, drinks for all, better food in the lounges, alcohol spirits in the lounges, but undoubtedly Virgin has closed the gap (as it should when converting from an LCC)

---

BNEA320

The rot for QF Domestic started when VA started on lower wages and costs, then JQ picked up Impulses's lower cost base, then TT started with an even lower cost base.

That is true, but geography (and population) favors New Zealand even less, yet they seem to be able to support a progressive national carrier with a modern fleet.

Pilot Redundancies?
 

So another 700 jobs to be cut in addition to the previously announced Avalon engineer positions...

Are pilot redundancies likely?

PG

If the geographical location of Australia is an impediment to Qantas operating profitably, perhaps Joyce and his cohort may care to explain THIS aberration?

Xenophon is right, sack Alan Joyce and the Qantas Board – immediately!

BNEA320, I know you must be bored now uni is over for the year, but leave the conversation to the grown ups. Your posts across multiple threads, particularly today, show you are not as informed as you believe.

My guess if your at bne on the 12 month contract your done for in feb or march