They've had a taste, and now want something more palatable......
Jetstar to cancel Hamilton Island to Brisbane flights | Whitsunday Times

Interesting Qantas is cancelling Tasman flights due to "peaks and troughs" When Qantas is in a seasonal trough, it is due to light leisure travellers as business travellers generally only fall off over Xmas. This would mean Qantas is essentially a "leisure" traveller carrier.

What is also interesting is Qantas is reducing its schedule in October? This is due to lights loads, I'm guessing because of a lack of leisure travellers. The month of October generally isn't a trough? The really interesting thing is Jetstar is picking up those flights? Go figure, a leisure carrier picking up flights that are light due to a trough in leisure travellers.

What I'm trying to get at is, why would you replace your premium carrier when leisure loads are light with a leisure carrier only? It doesn't make sense? What's also interesting is both the AKL-ADL and AKL-CNS Jetstar services have been canned as they were a flop and failed. They won't let Qantas try these routes as Qantas management claim these routes to be leisure routes, Air New Zealand servicing these routes would claim not. If Qantas serviced these routes they would be the only carrier with business class giving them an advantage. Qantas has just proved with the Tasman reschedule the loads are light due to light leisure demand. Hence my point about Qantas being a leisure carrier. It's not only a leisure carrier, but a premium leisure and business carrier.

This is the current Qantas strategy, expand Jetstar, shrink Qantas. The more they expand Jetstar, the more they upset their loyal pax that will take their business elsewhere.

I think you will see a slow takeover of most Qantas services on the Tasman by Jetstar with the odd Tasman flight flown by Qantas. Emirates will fly the rest of the business traveller, what ever business traveller left over who is not peeved off with the lack of Qantas services will transfer their business to Air New Zealand.

Great strategy Qantas, you should all work in Air New Zealand's marketing department!

Most airlines operate a seasonal schedule and add/reduce flights according to demand throughout the year. SQ for example regularly fluctuates between 3 and 4 flights a day SINLHR depending upon demand - as do others eg CZ or KE adding supplementary flights to Oz during peak times, and reducing throughout the remainder of the year.

I agree it doesn't make sense adding JQ ILO QF in this case -- as the leisure travellers that fill the back of the bus probably just won't be travelling full stop during that period.. Then again, maybe JQ would lose less money than a QF flight at the same period, who knows.

Reduced flying is never good for the employees - but I think it is great QF seems to finally be taking some risks and working out where they can save money and grow revenue in a dynamic market -- supp flights to SCL/DFW over the holidays are one example.

Could someone please tell me, when JQ are stating people are choosing to fly with them on the 787 & they are most efficient when the aircraft are flying.

Why, when its now the start of the NSW school holiday. That some JQ Sydney-Denpassar services have 150 spare seats (JQ37)

Long haul LCC's can only be profitable if the employees of said LCC's are on 3rd world contracts.
I believe when the A321 NEO's become available to Jetstar, they will replace B787's on DPS routes from east coast.
By this time QF crews will be so beaten into submission that they will accept a B scale contract to fly B787's on long haul routes. The Jetstar 787 could well be wound up.
Either that or Jetstar pilots will be flying Red tails.
Australian businesses cannot compete on a low cost basis with the likes of Air Asia & Lion Air.
The only option for non LCC airlines is to compete on product & reputation/loyalty programs.

And the brilliance of their 'Management Teams'.

You lose the QF USP and the rest is out the door. You ******* IDIOTS!

Seems simple to me, dont accept 3rd world rates.......not hard realy:ugh:

No you're the ********* V-Jet, for thinking Qantas could possibly survive in their legacy incarnation when all others around the world have failed. The world changes, whilst you continue to pine for a flat earth.

All flights to DPs and HKt have generally been full and I'm netting between 12/13 clear a month, hardly third world wages, flying the latest aircraft out of one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
Long May it continue.

Not bad coin for a SO.

Qantas didnt fail, it was destroyed by people who do not understand Australia or airlines.

What they have done and are doing is a little like running McDonalds, seeing Pizza sales increasing and immediately deciding to ditch Big Macs for Pepperoni and Cheese family sized Pizza's. A brilliant strategy except McDonalds expertise is in burgers, not pizza's. All the restaurants and staff are set up and trained for making burgers and no one in the entire world associates McDonalds with Pizza.**

You spend nigh on 100 years selling and creating one thing in the marketplace and then deliberately throw it away and you immediately lose any edge you have in the marketplace. What reason do people now have to 'buy Qantas'? After 25+ years of working there, even I struggle to find one now!

I humbly suggest I'm not the one with 'Flat Earth' syndrome - I don't get paid enough for that. There are (again IMHO) parked aircraft and monuments around the world to that thinking, a spectacular example located at 203 Coward St, Mascot.





** Except McDonalds (or anyone aside from Elaine and Clifford I hope) wouldn't be stupid enough to not only make bad Pizza's, but offer their customers discount vouchers to encourage them to buy from Pizza Hut!

Classic example

http://www.slideshare.net/TapishPanw...ure-1-new-coke

Not quiet, simmering behind closed doors, probably a good bet that Albo has been visiting a private lounge or two since March .. watch that space between now and August.:rolleyes:

QF Shrinking BNE Flights?
 

Heard from a couple of ground staff in Brisbane yesterday that QF rumoured to be pulling out of BNE - SIN and BNE - HKG and giving it to JQ...

Really?

PG

I've heard the same rumour too :sad:

Fuel-Off :ok:

I heard it isn't going to Jetstar but going to EK with their current service Dbx-sin-bne becoming a 380 and one of their services continuing down from hkg-bne. Either way I heard both are gone. :ugh:

Its an amazing business when Execs can give away the house and get nothing for it yet again.

Surely it must be time for someone to ask what is going on here OR this place is in heaps of trouble.

ps Albanese reported as giving ground on QSA issues in today's press, so he is on board with what is going to happen.

That scenario with Emirates would not suprise, but do Emirates have anymore traffic rights to increase services to Australia using their own metal?

What effect would a China Southern buy in (with relaxed QSA rules) have on the EK partnership?

Food for thought at the moment I'd say...

The answer to your question Boe787 is no unless our dumb Government give in so we can export live sheep to the Al Maktoum Abattoirs where all the highest hygiene and labour standards are upheld(not!). 123 services a week and 137 from March 2015. The problem is there is no limit to the seats e.g. A380 services to ALL Australian capital cities including Darwin and Canberra(if it fits).:ugh:That limit is the UAE which includes Etihad and Emirates.

I believe EK have no further rights into MEL, SYD, BNE or PER but can add flights to other ports.

They can upscale from 77Ws to A380s at their will provided the airport can provide them with the gates. The next logical upscale will be another of the MEL flights going to A380 probably DXB-SIN-MEL at which stage QF can be expected to further lower their services on SIN-MEL.:rolleyes: MEL will have the A380 gate capacity with SQ moving its A380s onto Indian services.

So is Alan happy now?
 

Yeah, and not satisfied with his brilliant assault on the Asian market with "brand Jetstar" it appears now AJ & his "brains trust" are tinkering around with Jetstar Oz using the "roulette transformation planning method" he perfected over the last year or so. :D

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g...2-not-fair.jpg



And what did the market think on the last day of the FY?

... down 5.62 percent..




https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A...ay-of-year.JPG


Jetstar puts Uluru back on the map

Another "rock solid" strategy. :}

May traffic figures out. Dreadful. Only good point QF international load factor up 1.6% year on year. The worst Jetstar domestic down 3.2% and jetstar international down 4.6%. Standby for August 28 and the full year results. Il go around $1.5 billion. Very ugly I think.

So under the current arrangement, Emirates could upgauge the Dubai Singapore Brisbane return service to a 380, and Qantas drop brisbane singapore return, but Emirates would need an increase in traffic rights to as suggested extend the Dubai Hong Kong service to Brisbane?

Very beautiful for Elaine though, for it is obvious proof that his demands for change have been nothing short of needed and this latest triumph is evidence that his strategies need ramping up if Qantas is to survive at all.

If all else fails, a complete lack of ability to look facts in the face will see us (Management, not the Company) through.....

Tima: Not sure QF has that many chips left!!!! I did like the 'sinkhole' effect you got in the wheel with Jet* - why is it you can see it but those paid millions can't?

I think a lot of people on here have seen it coming for a while now VJet, including yourself, not just me, and none of us are paid millions.

I battle on because none of the staff did anything wrong, particularly the operational staff. OK, some of the senior pilots earn a good wack, they deserve it, it's the way it is for all legacy airlines who have been around for nearly 100 years, but they are productive and would fly 900 hours a year if the management ordered the right fleet in the first place. Instead, here we are in 2014 sharing out 600 hours a year roughly, for mainline pilots because of the poor fleet decisions going back to 2005, betting the farm on what were essentially "experimental" aircraft and both were very late. Not one fat cat manger, all clearly lacking "common business sense" could see that they needed to order in small numbers "proven technology" (B777) to protect the established LH business. Anyway, we have been over and over this on here many times... it didn't happen even when they were offered B777s only a couple of years back. What pi_ _'s me off is the fact AJ & co turned their bad mistakes around to make the operational staff look bad claiming the pilots etc are too expensive and that they are non productive.... which is just plain wrong. They shirked responsibility for their poor decisions, blatantly front loading all the redundancy costs, Jetstar costs etc onto this years results destroying good peoples lives along the way, and to make it worse, bonus's all round next year for saving money, just a horrible way to do business.

Why? Because Jetstar International/Asia was going to save the day... hindsight is a wonderful thing, now we know it was all pie in the sky stuff, LC and AJ failed. The media fell for it, (not their fault) but the well paid "aviation/market analysts" fell for it or went along with it, not one of them setting off alarm bells that LC/AJ were on the wrong course. Great example here, just read the comments from TH & Co

Tigerair Mandala to cease flying on 30 June | Plane Talking

Says it all.. and those alarm bells should have been set off from those well paid aviation/market analysts at last years AGM when both LC & AJ said everything was "all good" and Qantas group was on track

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...ml#post8421055

http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/...essAGM2013.pdf

http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/...essAGM2013.pdf



Here we are in 2014 and look at the mess they have got themselves into, it's now all the staff's fault...but it's clear to many they didn't have a clue what was going on with their business at the time.. they seem to just say anything to get them through that day... a great sign of short term-ism management.

Over last weekend when Albo popped up in the media I knew that things were stirring again... they are all in on it, here we go again...

People, its simple.
The likes of Clifford and Joyce will always blame someone or something, never themselves, for their failures.
International is currently rooted and now you are seeing the demise of domestic side of the business, which up until recently could almost be guaranteed to produce a $500 mill profit.
Combine that with their need for consultants to be employed as "change managers" (bain boston and whoever else is in on this band wagon) and also the continued belief that management requires a bonus scheme to attract the "right people" and you have these results.
The recovery is simple.
Every Consultant project on the floor is stopped.
The executive bonus scheme in any form, i.e. short term and long term incentive plan is stopped and never returned in any ugly form. Salaried positions from the top down.
The continued mirroring of Qantas and Jetstar services domestically is stopped.
The immediate need for international aircraft orders to right the ship.
Get the ceo's of boeing and airbus on the phone now, we need to talk.
Call in the heads of all the unions, we need to talk.
Number one priority is flying people safely from a to b in decent equipment and feeding said passengers.
No need for town hall meetings at the campus, with the happy clappers marching down the street, nor the need for the glossy brochures pinned up in every crew room talking up some nett promoter score bs or how important our people are.
And whilst I'm at it, No need for the ceo to be in canberra with cap in hand asking for assistance, when all the problems can be placed at his and the boards feet.
Will it happen? Of course not, because its not Leigh or Alan's fault!:D:ugh::mad:

TIMA9X,

Agree, CEO and the board have, and no doubt never will take any responsibility for their bad decision making!!

However re the 380 and 787, the 787 was 5 years late and then suffered a subsequent grounding once it finally entered service!!
The 787 problems have been far worse than the 380s entry into service!

And the jury is still out on the lithium batteries, with 330 mins ETOPS, would you be comfortable on a 787 say Sydney Johannesburg or Sydney to Santiago?

I believe Qantas were aiming eventually for a simplified fleet of 3 types, 380, 787 and 737, to run both International and Domestic operations.

As great an Aircraft as the 777 is, Qantas needed a wide body that could do several roles, wide body domestic, regional asia and long thin international routes.
The 777 is simply too big in any variant to work domestically, and Qantas is unique in requiring a fleet of wide bodies to operate domestic services.
Very few airlines anywere, run 767/330 flights hourly over a 1.5 hr sector!

So Qantas chose the 787, as unlike the 777, it could do all 3 roles, and if it were not for Boeings problems, the 787/9s would have been in service for several years already!

It is very obvious that Clifford & Joyce have no intention to purchase any more aircraft for mainline and thus as more aircraft are sent to the graveyard, services will have to be withdrawn.

They are smart enough to know that the institutional shareholders will query pulling out of profitable routes so they have to engineer the situation so that it appears unprofitable. This is currently happening to the JNB route - Joyce cancelled the Joint Agreement with SAA citing that the ACCC is unlikely to allow the agreement to be renewed (he didn't even try to get it renewed). Since the cancellation, SAA have been putting all their pax on their services to PER with East Coast feeds on Virgin. This has totally changed the dynamics of the daily QF SYD-JNB-SYD service, reducing from a very high (& profitable) load factor to an unprofitable load.

I expect that there will soon be an announcement that the services will drop to 3 or 4 per week and some months later, QF will pull out of the route totally. Thus a couple of B747's can go to the desert without having to be replaced. There will be more jobs lost as Clifford's plan to dismantle Qantas continues. :ugh:

with predictions now being talked about around $1.5 billion loss - at what point does the Group become insolvent? there is now talk about debt facilities, bonds etc etc - a year ago the talk was about sufficient cash reserves in the bank this talk is now all very quiet, has the money now gone??

Yes, it will be a huge reported loss this year.
AJ will blame others then reinforce his plan.....yada..yada..yada.
If at the end of the day QF don't commit to 787 next year then it's all over.

Can Qantas even find the money for more 787s when they have a heap of A320s still looking for a home?

That's the million dollar question. The 787-9s are optioned at a very good price but with no money who knows. Perhaps the options can be transferred to another airline smart enough to know their real value. Elaine flew to China several weeks ago in VH-FMG. Probably trying to do a desperate deal with China Southern.

I think Ben Sums it up well here

As for the mainstream media.... it will take them a while longer to catch on... can't risk a front page full colour Qantas ad... they too are doing it tough.. and money talks...:ok:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-e...701-zsrko.html

Going Boeing,

Agree re Johannesburg, another free kick from Qantas!
Most of the Passengers who previously booked via the South African code share on the Qantas flight Sydney to Johannesburg, are now flying VA to Perth, and then South African Perth to Johannesburg.
So extra passengers for both Virgin and South African, all because "they thought the code share agreement" would not be extended!!
Well why not run with it till it expired, and apply for a continuation?

It is the vision and agility of this particular collection of clowns that got the airline in this situation in the first place Mr Sandilands, although you do know that, many others don't. Like flying, you should never NEED exceptional skills to get you out of trouble - those situations should be avoided, especially by people with such brilliant skill sets that command multi million dollar remuneration packages...

Nope, part of the super pricing deal with Boeing precludes the trading of options or the selling of the purchased aircraft within 4 years (maybe 5??) of delivery. They don't want good customers making profits by selling new aircraft against the OEM.

Flew PER-MEL on VA A330 a couple of weeks ago. Plane would have had 50+ South Africans onboard who had transitted of SAA in PER. VA must be very pleased how that deal has worked out!!!

Insolvency is inability to pay debts as they fall due. There is no indication that QF are in that position though a substantial loss may trigger some debt covenants though it is unlikely a bank/creditor would follow through. QF still has access to cash via undrawn facilities as well as fully owned aircraft that could be sold and leased back. The issue is that following the downgrade to junk status, the borrowings are much more expensive than before.

I notice EK are now actively selling Aust to the USA via DXB at attractive fares with a free stopover.

The 787's offer an opportunity.An opportunity that only a vision will realise.
Unfortunately there is a distinct lack of vision at the moment.
I'm praying something changes before the deadline next year.


Can QF afford it? It has too!
Whatever needs to be done must be done.
Everyone else by the end of the decade will have 787's or 777's with the new one around the corner.
QF will be at a competitive disadvantage.
God it is at the moment with 744's and mid life A 330's.
What will it look like in five years!
They need the 787. There is no option.