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Who else would be interested? And with EK in the box seat, it is easy to assume that there are no other airlines and/or sovereign funds interested in buying into Qantas. However, what’s going down with VA might just be getting the belated attention of airlines also feeling somewhat threatened by what the Virgin Group may have in mind. Nothing like blood in the streets to attract onlookers and should Qantas management be successful in persuading the government to amend the Qantas Sale Act, long suffering unions and shareholders may yet need to consider what changes they could affect with any new leadership team directing Qantas. |
Why are there a lot of people asking for change to the QSA?
Why was the Act first put in place? What is Qantas to us Australians? How would that change if the QSA were change? The people in charge of this once great company are only caretakers, where will they be after, or will their super also get top up on their pasting. |
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Without the Qantas Sale Act there would be no Qantas today. Are we forgetting the 2007 Texas takeover bid?
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Petitions? Bollocks. What staff need to do (which probably wouldn't amount to much) is put in a united vote of no confidence in Joyce, Strambi and Clifford. Qantas needs new leadership, the past 5 years provides untold evidence of the reason why new direction is warranted.
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ALAEA Fed Sec,
Totally misleading. The "2007 Texas Takeover" bid was fully compliant with the QSA. The only reason it failed was a few shareholders got greedy and only 46% accepted the bid at $5.45 (versus $1.15 today) when the conditions required a minimum 50%.. From a shareholder perspective not selling at the top was a stupid thing to do. One can only speculate what would have happened if the bid had gotten up, but I suspect something like Ch. 9. Once the GFC hit it would have been overburdened with debt, so the lenders ultimately take control, it is recapped and relisted. But I suspect the airline and its staff would have gone through a whole lot more pain than has actually occurred since. |
Only logical major player that would have an interest in running an airline maybe EK. If they had the right to buy, the timing was right and the price was right, I can see a very strong possibility of an Emirates buy out of Qantas. The timing is right with Virgin showing the way to do it and action needed before Virgin become too strong. The price is going in the right direction. All they need is the Sale Act to be changed. They could sell off the Qantas Frequent Flyer business (why would they need it), sell off Jetstar if they wanted. And probably recoup their initial outlay in the process. An alternative may be a foreign private equity bid (free of the Sales Act) which would also split the business and maybe sell Qantas domestic to Emirates. |
They could sell off the Qantas Frequent Flyer business (why would they need it), sell off Jetstar if they wanted. And probably recoup their initial outlay in the process Engineering has been assigned to the domestic wing... surprise surprise. |
No doubt Emirates want to see a strong Qantas domestic for feeder traffic Don't believe the VAH, Eithad, Air NZ, Singapore will be a happy marriage either, some interesting times ahead in that boardroom. |
Totally misleading. The "2007 Texas Takeover" bid was fully compliant with the QSA. This entire thing is about two airlines and their egotistical CEOs seeking more money to fund an unsustainable airfare war. |
The only reason it failed was a few shareholders got greedy and only 46% accepted the bid at $5.45 (versus $1.15 today) when the conditions required a minimum 50% |
Qantas has been living a lie for at least Fifteen years.
The lie is that it is unprofitable and burdened with excessive costs. The lie was made with the intent of undoing the public float and to privatise the iconic airline, which has always been a licence to print money by screwing Australian travellers. The lie almost succeeded. The trouble however was that all the deliberately dubious decisions that were made to portray Qantas as a total basket case prior to the Texas offer needed to be immediately undone when it failed. However little Alan didn't understand that. Instead his mates Dixon and co egged him on to go further down the self destructive path they had planned. And when Alan finally saw the chasm opening up in front of him, he went to Emirates and not messrs Dixon and co. THAT was the source of the famous gnashing of Singletons teeth. "My precious" curses! Qantas has slipped through our fingers! As I said when this happened, Qantas will simply be a business name for a unit of emirates very shortly. Alan's outburst just confirms it. |
QF has been positioned for a takeover of its European routes by EK, and perhaps the whole lot.
Once QF passengers get an eyeful of the service on EK, who will want to get on an old QF plane with slack attendants and bad service? They will take EK all the way, I know I would. Even first on QF is only about as good as business on the big players like SIA or EK. QF will bleed on those routes until EK make an offer that they can't refuse. QF may have the Pacific routes but, will that sustain them ? I don't think so as that is only about 25% of profits . It was told to me some time ago that, QF means nothing to the top management other than a ' brand that is worth about $60mill, and there are some assets'. They have trashed the brand, reducing the value to who knows what and most of the planes aren't worth much now. What is left? EK could take over all of the European routes from them and QF could try and make it as a boutique Pacific carrier or pretend to codeshare and give the lot to EK. Could they continue as a complying company and not operate any planes? I don't know but, I'll bet the QF management know. Why would EK want to buy out QF? Probably only worth the traffic to them but, remember that the Middle East has all the oil and they don't pay anything like what those outside pay. Fixed world oil pricing, sure! Aircraft leasing rates ......... no need to lease there. Think they are profitable? Global air domination with access to cheap fuel and new planes by the 3 carriers in the ME. Tell me I am dreaming. An EK buy out of QF would leave the Orange star to be operated by another company and continue supplying lots of income for the old QF guard through leasing planes from them, maybe with the "little one" doing very well out of it and bolting. Later Jetstar could also be sold off as a tidy corporate masterstroke. Lets face it QF has always been struggling as an end of line carrier and it has now been run into the ground. If it was a race horse, they would be putting up the curtain around it about now. Just my uneducated opinion. |
Once QF passengers get an eyeful of the service on EK, who will want to get on an old QF plane with slack attendants and bad service? They will take EK all the way, I know I would. It amazes me that some of the better paid staff in their industry seem to continually publicly bag their employer and its management, rather than revile in their good luck, and do their upmost to help the company stay profitable so they can stay on the gravy train. |
An unbiased comment
I don't think the sympathy cry to arms by Alan will do jacks#it these days.
Perhaps a couple of years ago, but not now. And you know why? Because quite simply Qantas is no longer Qantas. It has been assaulted, trashed, stained and completely ruined for the sole purpose of filling the pockets of a handful of interests. The general service, quality, standards and everything else that made it Qantas has been decimated. Why fly QF and receive that level of standard when I can fly Tiger at a cheaper rate Domestically for the same crap service? I recently flew to Dubai with Royal Brunei and the food, leg room and service was better than what I received with QF 3 months earlier flying to LA, I kid you not. And 2 months prior to the LA trip I flew again to LA but with VA, and that return flight also pi#sed all over QF hands down, on all levels! I say this as I was a VA hater and had loyally stuck by QF for over 20 years. Not anymore! For this traveller Qantas does not offer anything above the other carriers, except higher fares. As far as a lot of people are concerned there is no longer an emotional attachment to QF. QF is just another two cent airline that you fly with out of necessity. I do feel for the good staff who have had to endure 5years of the airlines decline in quality, mass redundancies, self induced grounding etc etc but the public no longer give a stuff. Only, or should I say possibly with a complete change of the executive management and a commitment from the new management team to rebuild the airline does the old Roo stand a slight chance of turning back the clock. |
But the Qantas meals are inspired by Neil Perry.... I can't work it out.
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Which part of Neil Perry though ?
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Steve, so what you are saying is that a ****ty chocolate biscuit and an orange juice for the BNE/ADL route is inspired by Perry?? Wow, what imagination!
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I guess sarcasm isn't your strong point. :rolleyes:
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Steve, so what you are saying is that a ****ty chocolate biscuit and an orange juice for the BNE/ADL route is inspired by Perry?? Wow, what imagination! |
Steve, Luke Mangan perhaps?? Then again the way QF is going if there are still meals on board in the next few years it will probably be a menu designed by the Southpark Chef!
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Petition
Why would QF staff sign a petition on a board and CEO who decided to shutdown an Airline for their own greed....
Everyone in QF should boycott the petition and see who really actually signs it, not a heap of idiots that think Joyce will look after them. Tell him their dreaming! Joyce just doesnt want the domestic bottom line hurt otherwise he cant continue to prop up Jetstar Japan/Jetstar Asia/Jetstar Hongkong/Jetstar International... Why is it that every employee can see that Jetstar group doesnt make any money but the media swallow every word the CEO says as being totally believeable...its a joke! Where have all the people who really want to know the truth gone? |
Where have all the people who really want to know the truth gone? The public won't realise the truth until it is too late. If you don't believe me, look back to Ansett. Where's the petition to get rid of the current board? That's one I'd be happy to sign. |
Goddamslacker,
Gee, should I trust the legally required and issued accounts that say Jetstar IS making money or the rumblings of some Qantas staff who say that despite all the evidence showing otherwise that Jetstar makes no money??? |
1A_Please I'm sure the CEOs of the banks would just be delighted to invest $500M of shareholder funds into a company that has seen its value fall by 75% in 7 years.....not!!! You may or may not be aware that some banks already have a large stake in Qantas. From the 2013 Annual Report (page 165): CBA: 225,886,843 ordinary shares (9.97% of issued shares) / approx $259M NAB: 112,201,803 ordinary shares (5.01% of issued shares) / approx $129M The dollar values are based on today's close on the theory that they still hold the same amount of shares since the issue of the report which might not be the case. Now don't interpret my comments that because the banks own a stake in Qantas that it is a good buy. I am sure that they have made a lot of losses on various investments along the way to their major profits (CBA: $7B+, NAB: $5B+). And as for investment advice, I am not offering it and as all investment firms say, "this does not take into account your financial situation or goals, please consider if this product is right for you prior to making your decision" (or something to that extent). 404 Titan What part of Virgin Australia (International) being 51% Australian owned don’t you understand. It is Virgin Australia (Domestic) that is majority owned by Etihad, Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand. They are two separate companies with two separate listing on the ASX. Both airlines comply 100% with the foreign ownership rules. Lastly, on AIPA support on this issue: To me the AIPA is there to support their members. Now obviously they have had their issues with Qantas management over time representing whilst representing their members interest, but they must see the current Qantas ownership limitations as something that hinders their members interest, hence their support on this topic. I am not saying a change on this current legislation will save Qantas or that they can't be saved without the change but if it is not in AIPA's interest (and in turn their members) for Qantas to fail despite any grievances with the management. Just my humble opinion. |
Don't get too worked up over this guys... If the ABC and Fairfax have their way, you'll all be working for Garuda soon:)
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You know how selfish ceos are!!!
Id say he's really worried about his next bonus.
I guess he has spent last years $5 million bonus already and is now worried about his next. |
Checkthrust,
The "banks" themselves don't own part of Qantas - rather they form individuals holdings that are managed by the banks as part of managed funds (eg. BT - Westpac, Count - Commonwealth, MLC - NAB) or as part of Nominee acconts controlling super funds. See the NAB substantial shareholder announcement on 27/9/13 (search ASX) and you will see most of the shares are for MLC and Antares Capital. In almost any major Australian company you will see the banks and a few other Nominee companies in the Top 20 |
Qantas pilots seek to turn Joyce petition against Jetstar | Plane Talking
The stand announced by the new president of AIPA, Nathan Safe, has not been given any media coverage other than in the Financial Review, so in the interests of the bringing it into the open, this is the statement. The Australian and International Pilots Association has given its support to amending the Qantas Sale Act, provided that any new foreign investment streams are directed into Australia and not into unproven overseas ventures. “The current Australian aviation environment has evolved rapidly and AIPA recognises that this necessitates a shift in position. Therefore AIPA is now willing to support amending the Qantas Sale Act (QSA),” said AIPA President Nathan Safe. “The problem we have at the moment is an un-level playing field: Virgin is free to access foreign investment channels that Qantas cannot due to the restrictions of the QSA. It is therefore clear that the only viable policy approach is for the QSA to be reviewed. “However, if changes to the QSA are justified to ensure the Australian industry is not disadvantaged against foreign competitors, then it is absolutely vital that any advantages gained through its amendment must flow straight to Qantas’s Australian operations. “Therefore, AIPA would support changes to the QSA, but only if the foreign investment that flows from those changes is used to invest in Australian aviation and Australian jobs. Under such changes, new streams of foreign investment could not be used on the sort of unproven forays into Asia that we have seen Qantas Group pursue through Jetstar and other subsidiaries in recent years. “While specific ownership restrictions in the QSA may have become unsuited to the modern environment, the fundamental purpose of the Act – to ensure that the vital economic and social benefits that come from public ownership of national airline are still achieved under private ownership – is as important as ever. “So if Qantas management is truly seeking changes to the QSA in order to support its local operations, the local economy, and local jobs, then there is no reason that such a caveat should present a problem. “AIPA will be advancing the benefits of such a legislative change to the federal government. We would encourage all other Qantas stakeholders – including management – to do likewise. “Of course, AIPA recognises that amendments to the QSA may only be part of a suite of changes required to level the playing field adequately.” |
Also, does anyone know why VAH have incorporated Skywest in Singapore (page 135)? |
deaf ears in Canberra?
Thank you WorthWhat for putting that right, great post! :ok:
For those who missed it, Qantas cries will fall on political deaf ears The escalating hostilities between Qantas and Virgin Australia indicate that, while the Australian domestic aviation market might be a duopoly, it is an intensely competitive one. In the near term, that says Qantas’ pleas to Canberra for help are going to fall on deaf ears. Qantas cries will fall on political deaf ears | Business Spectator |
AIPA's statement is a subtle round about way of telling Joyce to fob off elsewhere, good work Nathan! The amount of money QF has been pi$$ing against a wall with mass loss making overseas ventures with Joyce at the helm is just ludicrous, no other company would get away with it. Meanwhile QF is now burdened with mainly 80's era fuel guzzlers, even Garuda couldnt make a buck out of...
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9th August 2012
"Qantas is now free to run our business as we see fit and not be dictated by union officials who do not have the airlines best interest at heart." Olivia Wirth And what a fine job of managing the airline they have done! So why the need to ask employees for help now? |
With the weak & very poor nature of our pathetic judicial system one has to wonder how much of a chance Virgin really have in the courts here. Even though the QF employees know the real truth behind the facade that now is QF the great almighty name of QANTAS still has some clout in the eyes of the uneducated, however misguided that is I suspect that the courts will at all costs do what the Asians do, save face.
I feel for only one sector here, the QF employees, the once loyal & proud team that now have had the "Spirit of Australia" beaten out of them. Wmk2 |
Why? Because Alan has no cred in Canberra
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Wally, If Alan thought he had even the tiniest shot at court action, he'd already be there. He doesn't, and he knows it. That's why he's trying to browbeat the Government. Fat chance.
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Olivia Wirth, now there's a name you don't hear much anymore, Mstr Caution.
Ever since the little fella got his teeth fixed up he seems to be the only QF person you hear and see. The funny thing from the statement not be dictated by union officials who do not have the airlines best interest at heart |
Fairfax is reporting today that QAN is under investigation for abuse of market power in its defence of GD's famed 65% "line in the sand." Apparently Strambi's comments that for every plane VA added, it would add 2 has drawn the ire of the competition watchdog.
As a strategy, the 65% was always flawed. It now threatens QF domestic's profitability and if the ACCC is angry, QF can't expect much sympathy with its current campaign against VA. |
From my recollection the then government was pretty P!ssed off with Alan when he grounded the company and only under sufferance supported him because he had probably acted within the bounds of the law and were reluctant to challenge his fabricated "safety" based argument, even though blind freddy could see through it.
I suspect that even in opposition, the current government would have had a fairly dim view of what transpired as well. I reckon Alan has got close to zero chance of getting any support from Canberra, and they may well be looking for an opportunity to even the score. |
Oh crumbs, the ACCC is angry! Oh no! Will they write an angry letter to Alan? Perhaps they will tell him off in a stern voice? Toothless tigers.
As for Alan being angry at VA, poor poor Alan. It would seem his beloved empire is starting to fall in around his ears. Never mind, these executives are so unbelievable that they probably even get a 'decline in profit' bonus! Nothing would surprise me. I can't wait for the next installment of 'The men who killed Qantas'. It should hit the shelves within 2 years. New names, new players, an old story, a final eulogy for the Roo. |
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