Soar2384

So what is actually happening at skippers re cadets, Have they just started this program or has it been operating for some time, What is this productivity bonus?
Reason for my interest! Is I am wanting to move on from GA into a regional airline, I am considering applying to skippers soon, maybe you could help me out here.

Is it a good company to work for and are they recruiting direct entry or is it just a cadet based airline?

Any advice would be valuable

Fair enough Biggles can't argue with a lot of your points. I just see it from a different angle. I see the system as the problem. I'm of the opinion that our government not only supports but promotes these types of schemes that keep wages as low as possible. Their long term goal is sweatshop style employment or an american system where people have multiple casual jobs with no holidays or benefits.

I'm hoping that the good Senator burrows deep and uncovers the truths about the very top end of town.

I don't see any point in giving individual pilots/cadets a hard time. You never know when taking skill and experience for granted is going to bite a company. I'm a huge believer in fate. It all comes around in the end.

Thanks for the link Biggles.

Watching those lads discuss the virtues of Fast-Track in front of the sim cut-outs reminded me of westerners being video taped by al-Qaeda hostage-takers, to negotiate a ransom.

Enough is enough
 

Mr Hat. Well done :ok: One of the few people on this website that can discuss and articulate on a debate or issue without turning it into a brawl. It seems that most on this website grow about 6 inches through the power of a keyboard.
I also agree with Capt Biggles' thoughts. I agree with you Mr Hat on not giving these individuals a hard time and the system IS letting us all down at ALL levels but surely they must be able to take responsibility for their choices ?
As Biggles said they can never plead ignorance. Cadets may be extremely green but they are not idiots. They know that starting as a single piston driver is hard work and they may encounter some scary dark clouds. They just decided it was tooooo hard and Mummy's and Daddy's money can get me anything. And if anyone says "What is wrong with that ?" My parents have been there from day one with an open cheque book to support me and most of my colleagues through life but I must have been brought up differently. I worked full time, studied in the downtime and payed for my training . I am now EXACTLY on the path I wanted to be on and have found myself to be surrounded by other hard working pilots who are great human beings who actually want to fly an aircraft VS telling the world that they are a pilot. On the subject, To the Skippers pilot that drives around Perth with the roof off the car,music up, bars blazing on the shoulder, looking around to see if anyone's watching you, YES, We are watching you and thinking one thing. Take the massive aviators off, look in the rear view mirror and then give yourself an uppercut. :ugh::mad:

SOAR 2384 - I know of 3 people (very well) that left Skippers to greener pastures and one of the major reasons was the Cadet system they have in place. It is laughable. Cadets that have paid $55,000 plus extras to be a wage of around 55k. Opps.... hang on, Superannuation is included in that figure, do we all know that ?!?! So take another 9 % off and you are left with a large loan, average pay,NO REAL EXPERIENCE but all you top guns can all tell the 18y/o girls you stutter at that you fly a pretty turbo prop while some great people actually took the time to do an apprenticeship and really learn the trade of Flying the aircraft and making critical command decisions. And to the ones did actually spend 2 seconds in the bush before collapsing in a crying heap- YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS INDUSTRY !!! :ugh::mad::ugh:
I know that some pilots with a GA background leave a lot to be desired as do some Cadets. This is a human condition. We are all different. However, the general attitude of Cadets, (JQ cadets included) is woeful at best. It is the biggest plane in the quickest time, usually for an embarrassing salary. If you didn't take the DISGUSTING terms , conditions and in a lot of cases pay, the programs would not exist. The terms and conditions you guys are accepting are continually setting the bar lower and lower for the entire industry !!!:D

Sickofitall00

You obviously work for Skippers! maybe you could assist me regarding my previous post to soar ?

Low and Fast - May have..and I may have left ASAP...
Look at the general feel of this thread. They have current employees bagging their own company and pilots out. It always bothered me in my Ab initio days how a bare CPL holder (Who had barely left the training area) could do an Instructor Rating and was allowed to teach brand new and extremely impressionable students. Keep asking questions and I wish you all the best on the job hunt.

Its highly probable a lot of flack will head my way for this post, and as I post using my own name, its fair to say I truely believe what I am posting:

I feel some of you are being quite cruel to MC, he is an employee of a profit making organisation, which has a culure and ethos applied from above,,,,,,,,,and takes instruction from above, if he did not follow instruction from above he would probably be removed from the position.

From my experience, he fought the fights he knew he could win, did his job to the best of his ability, with as much sympathy as he could muster for his pilots ( who often did themselves no favours ) without crossing the line, he no doubt has mortgages of his own and a family to feed.

Having once worked for MC, I would happily do so again in a different organisation.

Good luck to MC with his future endeavours.

Pun intended??

Nothing against WS, that however is what happens when you do not toe the line!

Sorry GG, edited that bit.

To answer your question, yes ( history is a great teacher ).

sickofiall00

hahaha well said!:D

oh and ive seen that guy in and around the airport too. In my previous experience in GA (5 hard fought years!) he is probably a cadet that thinks the aviation industry owes him.:mad: Those who want everyone to know what they do for a living are usually those compensating for something...:(

Low and Fast

there are so many posts on here as too why u shouldn't work for an outfit like Skippers so why bother?:ugh: If you get a job and then in 2 years complain its a sh!th0le to work for then you're as bad as the rest of them...serioulsy!

and on a final note, I think cadets are great. Without them who would we hang sh!t on?:ugh:

Is there any truth to the rumour that these 55g cheques are being made payable to something other than Skippers/Fast track????

Sounds a little bit dodgy...

It's a shame really. I would consider him a friend, and he was a great bloke to head around the corner to that bar on certain afternoons with :E

One possible scenario that may cause poeple to leave (or want to) may go a little like this:

A particular cadet/s transfer to another fleet (direct to command), glide in thinking they know everything, start transferring their bad habits to other easily influenced cadet F/O's and by pure nepotism find themselves in a position of political influence. Then those captains who actually worked their way up the aviation ladder get pissed off at having to regularly rein in these cadet F/O's who ,by no fault of thier own, believe SOP's were never meant for the brave and that they have a "better" idea that they saw the other day to make the operation a bit more "awesome".

A pretty hopeless situation for those trying to keep the priorities in order, yeah I think an exodus could begin there.


Just a random thought :}

WOW

I think I'll stay up north flying my 310 and consider applying elsewhere guys.

All the Best.

LOW AND FAST - There will be/are quite a few good options in the coming months if you are looking at WA. Alliance/Network/Skywest should all be considerations. All the best with the job hunt.:ok::)

Soar

Has the writing on the wall sunk in yet? Or still confused as to what this has to do with an exodus..?:rolleyes:

Wouldn't be the first....and definitely wont be the last!

Biggles, how many years has Skippers taken cadets for? I know for a fact that it has been at least five years. It hasn't always been fast track but they have been taking cadets for at least that long all the same. So again please explain to me how something that has been going on for at least five years is all of a sudden going to make everyone jump ship? And sickofitall where did your friends go to? Jetstar? Skywest? Try to remember guys that cadetships are a bigger problem than just at Skippers.

SOAR - They went to companies that operate the EXACT type of aircraft they were on at skippers. Directly because Skippers couldn't organise a root in a brothel and they consistently over looked highly qualified people with impeccable track records for upgrades etc to promote job thieves. I personally believe this is primarily done to inflate the egos of the cadets as they will then stay longer and bend over more regularly for the pineapple. When I say "greener pastures" I don't mean JQ. They did not leave to get on a "bigger and better" aircraft but to be content in the workplace and learn/train with some very experienced and very talented people. I agree whole heartedly that the cadet problem is industry wide. JQ check and trainers have told me directly of the current batch of cadets and their shortcomings. EG : Not knowing the difference between an A320 and a B737 when instructed to line up.(Yes, I know, they were TRAINING ON a :mad: A320 !!!)
Everything I have written is fact and my personal opinions are a result of those facts. I have made it my ambition to get to the top in a respectable and honest way. Then when I'm there, I can join the others (there are quite a few...) and have some direct and strong influence on this industry and who is allowed to operate in it.
It may be well too late. The fact that the Senate inquiry has been extended and AIPA is flexing some muscle on the off shoring etc may dictate otherwise.

Soar

You clearly have not stepped foot on the crew room
at Skippers. If you have it was prob very early days where the impact on the pilot body was minimal and they(cadets) were well and truly a minority. Just read again what Myself, sickofit and metrodashbraz have said. These are all primary factors ontop of SQ's T's abd C's as to the exodus. Name one other joint in Australia that bonds pilots then holds them to a 90 notice period for resignation?? An absolute disgrace!!!! How Fair Work let this kind of stuff get through is beyond me. Funny enough how you think 5 years of cadets seems harmless but most were probably spinless when SQ brought in the 90 day period.

So just quietly are there anymore reasons you would like to justify an exodus??:D:ugh: