Virgin pilots
Southwest Airlines new EA - A 5th year 737 FO will make $350K (Australian dollars). Company contribution to retirement account is 18% of gross earnings.
For example, what is the difference between the above statement about SWA pay, and a scenario where a Vietnamese hairdresser posts on PHRUNE that Ausi hairdressers are earning 1 billion dong per annum and suggesting it is worth considering as a Vietnamese Hairdresser? Other than organising a move to Australia , the Vietnamese Hairdresser can’t enter that market and take advantage of those specific market forces. I suppose they could use the comparison to point out the benefits of stronger collective power of workers, but that’s about it. That’s what I take away from the post, Americans bargain effectively based on the current market so we should make sure we do the same.
Airlines making record breaking billion dollar profits.
Rapid growth (demand) for air travel.
Shortage of pilots (supply), yes an actual shortage.
One of the highest costs of living in the world.
Market forces are there.
Rapid growth (demand) for air travel.
Shortage of pilots (supply), yes an actual shortage.
One of the highest costs of living in the world.
Market forces are there.
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I agree GFR.
Are the market forces comparable to those at play in the USA? If they are then our bargaining power/ techniques/ systems are what we need to look closely at.
Are the market forces comparable to those at play in the USA? If they are then our bargaining power/ techniques/ systems are what we need to look closely at.
Depends on how you measure it. The US has a much larger industry but if we park an airframe for a week in Australia it would cost pretty much the same (revenue wise) as it would in the US. Possibly even more as their economy of scale would lessen the over all
impact to the airline. The question for Australian airlines is can they afford to not pay pilots those sorts of figures?
I completely agree with your last sentence. We need to back ourselves and empower our unions to stand firm, now more than ever.
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Thread Starter
mate whinging is better than nothing. We all need to speak up , A and others have taken that away.
If every VA Pilot did it , didn’t work on days off , didn’t cave in to the company , told the union to do their job , had the ability to be brave and had really good leadership from the union , then it would be possible to make significant gains.
And yes I totally understand why many are not in a position to be brave. The other half, home loans and kids to mention a few.
If every VA Pilot did it , didn’t work on days off , didn’t cave in to the company , told the union to do their job , had the ability to be brave and had really good leadership from the union , then it would be possible to make significant gains.
And yes I totally understand why many are not in a position to be brave. The other half, home loans and kids to mention a few.
mate whinging is better than nothing. We all need to speak up , A and others have taken that away.
If every VA Pilot did it , didn’t work on days off , didn’t cave in to the company , told the union to do their job , had the ability to be brave and had really good leadership from the union , then it would be possible to make significant gains.
And yes I totally understand why many are not in a position to be brave. The other half, home loans and kids to mention a few.
If every VA Pilot did it , didn’t work on days off , didn’t cave in to the company , told the union to do their job , had the ability to be brave and had really good leadership from the union , then it would be possible to make significant gains.
And yes I totally understand why many are not in a position to be brave. The other half, home loans and kids to mention a few.
You can bleat all you want to the union but their only real lever is a full blown shutdown strike which in Australia has never really ended well as Governments of either persuasion are essentially pilot haters. Compare that attitude to the comments made from Labor Ministers about the Wharf dispute recently and it will tell you why Wharfies, marine workers and railway employees get paid similar to or more than airline pilots.
Ultimately it’s an uphill battle which will only end when there is a capitulation of an airline in this country similar to what happened to Republic and other US Regionals. Maybe then you might get some traction.
A real pilot shortage will be fixed by Africans and expats with easy Visas.
The numbers are just not there. Stay strong and believe in holding for a better outcome.
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Australia really only has the two, and provided one doesn't blink first then other doesn't need to react either... and I dare say they both know it.
IF there was a real pilot labour supply crisis either due market forces or a prolonged strike and the government decided to waiver Visa restrictions for anyone with a ICAO ATPL they would be inundated with applicants. Just about every single country in the world has an airline and you don’t really need that many people in reality. Standards will be thrown out the window just to keep the show on the road.
Thread Starter
The psyche of pilots must change re pay and conditions if they want real improvements in both.
This must be lead by the Unions.
Both the Cabin Crew and Pilots Union haven’t done their job. Why didn’t they join up last year to negotiate together better pay and conditions for their members.
Again because they do not employ Professional Negotiators.
This must be lead by the Unions.
Both the Cabin Crew and Pilots Union haven’t done their job. Why didn’t they join up last year to negotiate together better pay and conditions for their members.
Again because they do not employ Professional Negotiators.
Professional Negotiators.
I think what people are inferring is that pilot unions go down the path akin to the US Pro Sports Unions where they get full time lobbyists and professional negotiators who spin a whole campaign and negotiation for you. It would include media and contract negotiations. Not sure what the likes of ALPA and Allied do in the US but I would assume they would be on the same trajectory. It would require people in Canberra getting in the ear of politicians and a bit of schmoozing. As we have all seen in the media over the past year one airline in particular has had a bit of a monopoly on Canberra lobbying.
There will never be a better time than now to go for the throat. With a weak labor government totally beholden to the unions, you guys need to press your reps for industrial action asap. If you miss this opportunity and the Coalition is returned, then who knows when the next chance will come. As far as i understand it, you don't need to wait for the vote, if the Company is deemed to be stalling, time wasting or just generally not being realistic, then a ballot can be held for industrial action. Hell, at this point i would find any excuse just to hold a ballot and scare the crap out of Hardlicker and Bain.
The main problem here in the Galapagos is that everyone thinks that airfares should be cheaper than their Uber ride to the aiport. If they don't want to pay for the service then F*** em, let them drive. There is a worldwide shortage of pilots that has no obvious soluition, there will never be a better time to try and drag Australian conditions back to somewhere on par with the rest of the world.
Just remember, it won't come easy. More money only comes from two things, supply not meeting demand and/or industrial action. At the moment the first condition exists, you need to create the second one.
I'm sure you're aware that the STOP/GO people in Melbourne are on $130k plus! As a previous poster said, get your TWU rep to really start rattling some cages and behave more like crane drivers and less like shop assistants.
The main problem here in the Galapagos is that everyone thinks that airfares should be cheaper than their Uber ride to the aiport. If they don't want to pay for the service then F*** em, let them drive. There is a worldwide shortage of pilots that has no obvious soluition, there will never be a better time to try and drag Australian conditions back to somewhere on par with the rest of the world.
Just remember, it won't come easy. More money only comes from two things, supply not meeting demand and/or industrial action. At the moment the first condition exists, you need to create the second one.
I'm sure you're aware that the STOP/GO people in Melbourne are on $130k plus! As a previous poster said, get your TWU rep to really start rattling some cages and behave more like crane drivers and less like shop assistants.
Thread Starter
RobCL
I sent u my cell, but have not heard from you.
I know DC and PL at the AFAP. Nice people .
But they are industry lawyers not professional Industry negotiators.
That is the problem.
And just a timely item. The government is helping those who get caught in Bracket Creep, no need to help us as we fixed that !
I sent u my cell, but have not heard from you.
I know DC and PL at the AFAP. Nice people .
But they are industry lawyers not professional Industry negotiators.
That is the problem.
And just a timely item. The government is helping those who get caught in Bracket Creep, no need to help us as we fixed that !
Last edited by farrari; 29th Jan 2024 at 22:20.
RobCL
I sent u my cell, but have not heard from you.
I know DC and PL at the AFAP. Nice people .
But they are industry lawyers not professional Industry negotiators.
That is the problem.
And just a timely item. The government is helping those who get caught in Bracket Creep, no need to help us as we fixed that !
I sent u my cell, but have not heard from you.
I know DC and PL at the AFAP. Nice people .
But they are industry lawyers not professional Industry negotiators.
That is the problem.
And just a timely item. The government is helping those who get caught in Bracket Creep, no need to help us as we fixed that !
If pilots want the full service package of lobbyists with preferential access to the left wing government currently in power then they'll need to be in a union affiliated with Labor such as the TWU. AFAP is course not aligned with Labor and as such will not receive preferential access to ministers and their offices, but might be more heard when the electoral pendulum swings the other way.
In reply to the post asking for proof of stop/go operators making $130k: Sydney traffic controller reveals she earns almost $3000 a week | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site
There will never be a better time than now to go for the throat. With a weak labor government totally beholden to the unions, you guys need to press your reps for industrial action asap. If you miss this opportunity and the Coalition is returned, then who knows when the next chance will come. As far as i understand it, you don't need to wait for the vote, if the Company is deemed to be stalling, time wasting or just generally not being realistic, then a ballot can be held for industrial action. Hell, at this point i would find any excuse just to hold a ballot and scare the crap out of Hardlicker and Bain.
Last edited by Pucken Pilot; 30th Jan 2024 at 15:49.
Thread Starter
Not unlike SA em ‘ every minute counts’ . How dare u say that , get out of the ******* office do some jump seat flying and learn. And whistle u there , bring the loads of other mangers VA have who have no ******* idea what VA pilots and more so Captains have to deal with.
Any line Pilot at VA would be happy to have him and the ELT in the jump seat on a 4 day trip to prosecute this 60 seconds. NOT.
And now we have the head of Casa Medical Kate Maderson wanting to talk to us re mental health.
**** me , recently in December I did my 6 monthly medical because I am old, Passed yet Casa shortly after wanted me do a stress test. I have never had to do one. I tried for weeks to ask why . Rang Casa over a two week period , they couldn’t tell me why, rang Kate Madersons Bega medical office attempting to speak to her, guess what she never had the professionalism to get back to me. Finally sense prevailed thanks to our excellent VA medical staff and I never did need to a stress test , CASA ****** up.
Now this Kate Maderson has the hide to talk to us about mental health whilst her office Casa sets these outrageous and dangerous hours we can fly a 737 as pilots, **** me. Casa and VA wouldn't know mental health if they feel over it. Why because they never get out on line , they sit on their back sides in the office. Any one who runs their own businesses understands. When has any VA Pilot had Casa or VA Management in the flight deck and or jump seat asking.. looking ..,learning etc .
The system is broken both at Casa and VA head office.
Again where is the Union !,,
VA at present is about as interesting as the bloody never ending tennis, I can only hope we become , turn left ‘ Trump 780.’ Or I guess if J has her way ‘ Tennis 500 ‘
The industry is totally ******. for so so many .
Last edited by farrari; 1st Feb 2024 at 09:19.
Much Anger there. Just accept that you work for a bunch of self-serving vultures that run a sheltered workshop for virtue-signaling twats with a large Social Engineering division. Accept that flight ops just go round in circles making the same fvckups every 5 years or so. Accept that everything related to the frontline will be under resourced, badly trained, and demotivated. Never extend. Remain completely professional in the discharge of your duties but beyond that don’t lift a finger to assist the operation.
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