Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Bonza has its AOC

Old 27th Jan 2023, 09:50
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Just worked out why my app doesn't work !

"Interestingly you canít actually book through the airlines website Ė travellers have to book through the Fly Bonza app (and for those who have already downloaded the app, Bonza has advised that it will need to be deleted and reinstalled to have the ability to book flights)."
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 09:59
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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I still fear it just doesn't add up for this mob, but, now that they have made it into the air I wish them the best. Hopefully the aparent madness is just genius tapping a market we never expected and not just, well, madness....
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Old 29th Jan 2023, 23:04
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I agree with you 43inches. The overall concept does not make sense to me. A small fleet of large capacity and expensive aircraft operating infrequent all economy services with low cost airfares between low volume city pairs. Starting with the overhang of huge start up costs per aircraft and little opportunity for economies of scale. Little or no air cargo offering between their city pairs to help pay for the fuel.

We have just learnt Flybe of Birmingham in the UK has collapsed. Affiliated with Cyrus Partners a hedge fund in the US Flybe operated a fleet of 8 all economy aircraft and carried approx. 2,500 pax per day. With 2 hubs, 22 routes and 16 destinations the similarities between Bonza and Flybe are frightening.

Deano. Tell me I am wrong

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Old 29th Jan 2023, 23:55
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Originally Posted by B772
I agree with you 43inches. The overall concept does not make sense to me. A small fleet of large capacity and expensive aircraft operating infrequent all economy services with low cost airfares between low volume city pairs. Starting with the overhang of huge start up costs per aircraft and little opportunity for economies of scale. Little or no air cargo offering between their city pairs to help pay for the fuel.

We have just learnt Flybe of Birmingham in the UK has collapsed. Affiliated with Cyrus Partners a hedge fund in the US Flybe operated a fleet of 8 all economy aircraft and carried approx. 2,500 pax per day. With 2 hubs, 22 routes and 16 destinations the similarities between Bonza and Flybe are frightening.

Deano. Tell me I am wrong
You are wrong Flybe operated Q400ís .
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 02:03
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FlyBe was a complete basket case, the current administration is whats left of the relaunch from the previous administration in 2020. Lucky that Loganair was only used as a franchise and not involved in the administration and continues on.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 02:38
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Originally Posted by B772
I agree with you 43inches. The overall concept does not make sense to me. A small fleet of large capacity and expensive aircraft operating infrequent all economy services with low cost airfares between low volume city pairs. Starting with the overhang of huge start up costs per aircraft and little opportunity for economies of scale. Little or no air cargo offering between their city pairs to help pay for the fuel.

We have just learnt Flybe of Birmingham in the UK has collapsed. Affiliated with Cyrus Partners a hedge fund in the US Flybe operated a fleet of 8 all economy aircraft and carried approx. 2,500 pax per day. With 2 hubs, 22 routes and 16 destinations the similarities between Bonza and Flybe are frightening.

Deano. Tell me I am wrong
You are wrong
JQ couldn't make it in NZ with Q300s either

Again, have a close look at Flair if you want to compare AB with any other operator
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 06:32
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Originally Posted by Global Aviator
You are wrong Flybe operated Q400ís .
And an ATR72 and Emb170 on wet leases from European operators

losing Iím reliably informed around $5m per month
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 09:35
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Flyby was a great airline and product when they service niche markets that didn’t interest the bigger players. They got into trouble when they entertained and implemented the plan to take on the likes of EasyJet and Ryan Air and then to operate from Heathrow.

The lesson here for Bonza is to stick to their smaller ‘holiday routes’ that don’t interest the Virgins and Jetstar of the world. If they stray into markets in competition with Virgin or Jetstar they will be toast. I hope they forge a very successful business.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 11:03
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FlyBe at least tried to use aircraft that were suited to thin alternate routes, using a trunk airliner in a country where everybody is on connecting flights to somewhere else via the capitals is the big issue. I think lease and operating costs are going to be the crunch on this, then there's the problem if they do find a market for a large airliner to operate it will probably get interest from the other airlines as well. Anything that makes money will interest the J* and VA thinkers. That's why they do direct Ballina, Coffs, flights etc etc...
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 17:08
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If, for example, Bonza jumped on MEL-OOL 6 daily at say $80 or less each way on every seat and could make it work at 80%
Assuming 777 can back this for 6-12 months at below 50% (assuming QF/JQ and VA would compete)

Who would be first to waive the white flag ?
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 20:26
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Originally Posted by Deano969

Who would be first to waive the white flag ?
Who knows.

But Iíll guarantee the airports wonít waive the landing fees.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 21:20
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There is an impending capacity war coming, I think July we will see this. Fares will drop to pre COVID levels the question is how low can the likes of Rex and Bonza go and be prepared to stay that low.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 23:04
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Originally Posted by SHVC
There is an impending capacity war coming, I think July we will see this. Fares will drop to pre COVID levels the question is how low can the likes of Rex and Bonza go and be prepared to stay that low.
That is a concern for all. Bonza and Rex have an edge however, small fleets means flexibility when demand drops, they can intelligently cherry pick yielding routes and move where the gravy is. VA, QF and J* have large fleets with large overheads, if demand falls off a cliff they still have the large overheads but no income on the lower performing routes, with no way to redistribute the fleet as they are already covering the trunk ones to capacity. As seen in the US the large operators tend to hit the wall first in downturns as they have way too much capacity built up and wrung up debt very quickly with empty aircraft and leases to pay down.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 23:23
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Well you may have answered the question then.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 00:07
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I think youíll find that the competition has bigger problems that will prevent them from trying to fly against Bonza, itís called lack of crew. You canít fly aircraft without them.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 01:09
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And that is proving to be a bigger problem in good times for the smaller operators, finding crew and even aircraft in the good times is the hard part for them. In the bad times cheap crew, cheap leases, all work in the favor of smaller airlines. A lot of the smaller airlines in the US went to the wall in reasonably good times, due lack of or expense of crew and aircraft. So in short, bad times favor the smaller guys and good times favor the capacity of the big ones, in recent times anyway.

PS this situation the last 20 years is a skewed economic issue that aviations has dug itself. The system has become so lean for aircraft, parts and personnel that any push for capacity increases pushes hard on increasing costs.

Last edited by 43Inches; 31st Jan 2023 at 01:39.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 04:13
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If, for example, Bonza jumped on MEL-OOL 6 daily at say $80 or less each way on every seat and could make it work at 80% Assuming 777 can back this for 6-12 months at below 50% (assuming QF/JQ and VA would compete)
They do that and qantas, virgin and even rex will **** them harder than a digger who's back from a two year detachment.

Last edited by tossbag; 31st Jan 2023 at 06:06.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 04:23
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So how'd the first flight go today? Was reading on the ABC they had 160pax on board but only 2 fare paying ones. The rest media, pollies etc. Don't know how accurate that is though.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 04:34
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You would be very peed off if you were the fare paying pax.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 06:01
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Just saw on another forum that they've apparently sold over 10,000 tickets
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