Air NZ Jet
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Zealand
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An 'outsider' weighing up TP pathway, conceeding Ext Jet looks unlikely/will be extremly compeditive. Can anyone provide insight as to rough timeline to TP Capt for someone willing to be Auckland based (understand many FO's would rather be elsewhere due COL) and has an ATPL ? Thank in advance.
I was chatting to a Senior person at Air NZ last week and was told they are facing a recruitment crunch. He said that quite a few people coming from the Turbo Props are struggling with the Jet transition and the company is rapidly coming to the conclusion they will have to recruit external candidates onto the A320 to keep up. I asked about the recruit to group and he said they had got around that before and could again if required.
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
I was chatting to a Senior person at Air NZ last week and was told they are facing a recruitment crunch. He said that quite a few people coming from the Turbo Props are struggling with the Jet transition and the company is rapidly coming to the conclusion they will have to recruit external candidates onto the A320 to keep up. I asked about the recruit to group and he said they had got around that before and could again if required.
As such, the 35 year old, ATR/Q300 Captain, with 7-10 years in the Links now, has to wait for some disgruntled Captain with 3 failed interview attempts already to then fail his/her Type Rating and hope Air NZ doesn’t turn away from Link Pilots again before he/she gets their first look in.
Who could have possibly thought this was a good idea? Oh that’s right, the Regional Council who basically wrote their own pathway.
I wonder if those joining will realise the seniority number they get puts them behind many hundreds of other group pilots so an A320 FO spot may be where you end up for a long time.
Well it wont be behind hundreds, not yet anyway.
Regionals still have a separate Seniority list and their ability to bid for Jet Vacancies is within their list only... we haven't got a joint Seniority list.
If the company does start hiring externals, they can do so on a 1:9 ratio, being 1 external for every 9 regionals without any problems... this means 1:9 Pilots actually employed and appointed to Jet Courses.
However, if they can't meet the 1:9 Ratio we get into Tag and Release, which is where the problems occurred previously. For every External Pilot Hired (outside the 1:9 ratio), then 4 Regional Pilots get a reserved Jet Seniority number ahead of that External hire, they get "Tagged and Released" back to the Regionals. As we saw before COVID, that quickly added up to 100 or so Regional Pilots on reserved numbers and externals started pulling their applications and not fronting for interviews.
However, in raw numbers terms, there should be no reason to require externals in the next 12-24 months, certainly not above the 1:9 ratio as the Links are quite well stocked and the recent Jet Course plan is quite slow. If they are forced to turn externally because of Regional Pilots failing courses, this isn't a Regional specific problem... the problem is who they're hiring, not where they're coming from.
Regionals still have a separate Seniority list and their ability to bid for Jet Vacancies is within their list only... we haven't got a joint Seniority list.
If the company does start hiring externals, they can do so on a 1:9 ratio, being 1 external for every 9 regionals without any problems... this means 1:9 Pilots actually employed and appointed to Jet Courses.
However, if they can't meet the 1:9 Ratio we get into Tag and Release, which is where the problems occurred previously. For every External Pilot Hired (outside the 1:9 ratio), then 4 Regional Pilots get a reserved Jet Seniority number ahead of that External hire, they get "Tagged and Released" back to the Regionals. As we saw before COVID, that quickly added up to 100 or so Regional Pilots on reserved numbers and externals started pulling their applications and not fronting for interviews.
However, in raw numbers terms, there should be no reason to require externals in the next 12-24 months, certainly not above the 1:9 ratio as the Links are quite well stocked and the recent Jet Course plan is quite slow. If they are forced to turn externally because of Regional Pilots failing courses, this isn't a Regional specific problem... the problem is who they're hiring, not where they're coming from.
Originally Posted by Bmozzle
Word on the street is that they will be able to cover everything internally.
Never say never though, if they do they'll be looking for Space Shuttle Commanders.
Never say never though, if they do they'll be looking for Space Shuttle Commanders.
The downsides of a small albeit awesome country.
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Originally Posted by Bmozzle
Word on the street is that they will be able to cover everything internally.
Never say never though, if they do they'll be looking for Space Shuttle Commanders.
Never say never though, if they do they'll be looking for Space Shuttle Commanders.
Overseas experience doesn't hold a candle to the trials and tribulations of flying around NZ.
Expecting any external positions to be over subscribed.
Originally Posted by dctPub
The Turboprop Strategic Command has stipulated some very stringent experience requirements for hiring outside the RPPP.
Overseas experience doesn't hold a candle to the trials and tribulations of flying around NZ.
Expecting any external positions to be over subscribed.
Overseas experience doesn't hold a candle to the trials and tribulations of flying around NZ.
Expecting any external positions to be over subscribed.
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Originally Posted by Monarch Man
Well I've heard there are plenty of overseas experienced former jet pilots currently going through the link process. I'm told that there are more than a few ex Cathay, EK, KE and QR drivers who have been employed as the Links offer regional bases, a relatively quick transition back to the LHS and virtually no deep night flying. Not a bad deal IMHO if you've been overseas and made your money 😉
The overseas jet drivers will probably use that as a job seeking allowance and go to jetconnect or jetstar, as one has already recently.
Doing 4-5 sectors a day, with massive waits at the airport, for 70k a year isn't sustainable for those used to doing 1 in 1 out.
Originally Posted by Monarch Man
Well I've heard there are plenty of overseas experienced former jet pilots currently going through the link process. I'm told that there are more than a few ex Cathay, EK, KE and QR drivers who have been employed as the Links offer regional bases, a relatively quick transition back to the LHS and virtually no deep night flying. Not a bad deal IMHO if you've been overseas and made your money 😉
Some were unsuccessful, others turned down the offer. How many have actually started? No idea, probably more than 0 but the Links aren’t overflowing with Expat Jet Skippers.
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Originally Posted by dctPub
The Turboprop Strategic Command has stipulated some very stringent experience requirements for hiring outside the RPPP.
Overseas experience doesn't hold a candle to the trials and tribulations of flying around NZ.
Expecting any external positions to be over subscribed.
Overseas experience doesn't hold a candle to the trials and tribulations of flying around NZ.
Expecting any external positions to be over subscribed.
Originally Posted by Seosan
What kind of things have they demanded?
- External pilots must meet the following criteria:
B. have at least 12 months Part 121 or Part 125 (or equivalent weight category) jet first officer experience; or
c. have Part 121 or Part 125 (or equivalent weight category) jet captain experience; or
D.have at least 12 months fixed wing command experience with the RNZAF or other air force on aircraft at least equivalent in weight category to Part 121 turboprop aircraft.
Keep in mind this is the turboprop council making up these requirements. Not the company.
Does that mean they only accept experience with NZ operators or would a lowly Jet Captain with an International Legacy Carrier qualify them for a job with Air NZ? I do wonder how I ever survived flying in and out of NZ with an International carrier despite it being 20 years since I had flown a turboprop domestically around the countryside given that NZ has things like Mountains and wind which apparently don’t exist anywhere else.
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
Does that mean they only accept experience with NZ operators or would a lowly Jet Captain with an International Legacy Carrier qualify them for a job with Air NZ? I do wonder how I ever survived flying in and out of NZ with an International carrier despite it being 20 years since I had flown a turboprop domestically around the countryside given that NZ has things like Mountains and wind which apparently don’t exist anywhere else.
It seems that people got their panties in a twist when a couple of CX SOs "got through" and "skipped the queue" when ANZ was recruiting jet externals.
I have trained quite a few Turboprop pilots onto Jets and I have to say ‘more’ turboprop experience can ‘sometimes’ hinder the transition as the thought process of energy management is totally different. Long time on Turboprops mixed with older age are a bit of a bad mix when moving to a large jet. Not always but sometimes.
The easiest pilots to train were MPL Cadets up in the UK who arrived at the jet with 180 hours and 80 hours in the A320 simulator learning to fly the jet. Age also helped as they could look at a manual and retain it. Of course as with everything there were exceptions and a few MPL students also failed.
Being able to skip the normal recruitment process of perhaps a simulator assessment will mean those who are going to struggle are only identified in the type rating which is a waste of everyone’s time.
The easiest pilots to train were MPL Cadets up in the UK who arrived at the jet with 180 hours and 80 hours in the A320 simulator learning to fly the jet. Age also helped as they could look at a manual and retain it. Of course as with everything there were exceptions and a few MPL students also failed.
Being able to skip the normal recruitment process of perhaps a simulator assessment will mean those who are going to struggle are only identified in the type rating which is a waste of everyone’s time.
Very few have outright failed, but there’s definitely been a spike in extra training required.
It’s not a problem “Regional Pilot problem” it’s a problem with removing the filter. The overwhelming majority of Regional Pilots have no issues transitioning to Jets, be it Air NZ, J* Cathay etc
Could be rough few months for the training department, but eventually things will settle down after certain regional pilots have either washed out or been carried over the line.
Its a very unique issue caused by allowing the Regional Council to write their own Jet Pathway, removing all screening processes and applying a punitive 8 year stand down to anyone who dared further their careers outside the group. Once we’ve filtered through the top heavy Regional List expect things should settle down.
It’s not a problem “Regional Pilot problem” it’s a problem with removing the filter. The overwhelming majority of Regional Pilots have no issues transitioning to Jets, be it Air NZ, J* Cathay etc
Could be rough few months for the training department, but eventually things will settle down after certain regional pilots have either washed out or been carried over the line.
Its a very unique issue caused by allowing the Regional Council to write their own Jet Pathway, removing all screening processes and applying a punitive 8 year stand down to anyone who dared further their careers outside the group. Once we’ve filtered through the top heavy Regional List expect things should settle down.
