Air NZ Jet

[Seosan]

Hi all

Can anyone in the know advise what the current situation is like in the Air NZ jet fleet furlough/redundancy hold pool is? Last I heard the training plan only had about 200 pilots back before 2024 with only 50 or so actually invited. That was in Feb this year, so presuming things have changed since then a little?

[AerocatS2A]

200 by the end of roster 11 this year was the news in July. I suspect everyone will have had an opportunity very soon and then they will start working their way back up the list.

Edit: If you're asking because you want to know when they might start recruiting, you will need to go via the turboprops and they're recruiting right now.

[Seosan]

Originally Posted by AerocatS2A

Edit: If you're asking because you want to know when they might start recruiting, you will need to go via the turboprops and they're recruiting right now.

Thanks for the info. I'm a little old to be joining a 10+ year waiting list for a jet interview. Mostly just curious about how the recovery is going back home.

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by Seosan

Thanks for the info. I'm a little old to be joining a 10+ year waiting list for a jet interview. Mostly just curious about how the recovery is going back home.

Faster than any of us imagined.

[waterbottle]

Originally Posted by AerocatS2A

Faster than any of us imagined.

Slower and more painful than necessary because those that highlighted obvious points were ignored/belittled.

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by waterbottle

Slower and more painful than necessary because those that highlighted obvious points were ignored/belittled.

No doubt.

[ElZilcho]

Originally Posted by Mumbojumbo

There will definitely be hiring outside of the regional fleet in the next wee while. Not a chance the regional fleet can release the number of pilots that will be required. Assumption only of course.

Recruitment policies are always changing, but the current mantra is the pathway to Jet will be via the Regionals and they plan to plan to increase regional crewing numbers to achieve it.
No talks of Joint Seniority that I’m aware of, so if/when demand requires external hiring again, there won’t be Seniority issues.

In the short to medium turn however, there’s still a lot of names to be recalled to Jet.
On Paper, of the 300 odd Redundant/Furloughed Pilots, we’re almost at the bottom of the list, but that’s because 120 odd have taken LWOP so there’s going to be some back filling once we reach the bottom.

Total numbers, we’re about 200 Pilots short of pre-COVID numbers but the 8x 777-200’s are gone and their replacements are a few years away yet. We’re currently recalling pilots to Re-Crew the 777-300’s and all the seat changes that creates, once that’s done it’ll slow down.

[Seosan]

Originally Posted by ElZilcho

In the short to medium turn however, there’s still a lot of names to be recalled to Jet.
On Paper, of the 300 odd Redundant/Furloughed Pilots, we’re almost at the bottom of the list, but that’s because 120 odd have taken LWOP so there’s going to be some back filling once we reach the bottom.

Thanks El Zilcho. I understand it's impossible to get a cover-all answer here but why would guys higher on the seniority list take LWOP instead of returning? Were they holding out for a LH spot?

[dctPub]

Originally Posted by Seosan

Thanks El Zilcho. I understand it's impossible to get a cover-all answer here but why would guys higher on the seniority list take LWOP instead of returning? Were they holding out for a LH spot?

because majority of them are regional captains who were awarded positions on the jet fleet but never actually started. When Covid hit they were made “redundant” and are now faced with a decision to resign from
their current role, have to go on training pay (60k) for a few months and start at the bottom of the jet pay scale. Oh and probably have to move to Auckland.

so they take lwop

[ElZilcho]

Originally Posted by Seosan

Thanks El Zilcho. I understand it's impossible to get a cover-all answer here but why would guys higher on the seniority list take LWOP instead of returning? Were they holding out for a LH spot?

As dctPub said, a lot of them will be Regional pilots and their reasons will be varied. Some Regional pilots were on a Jet Course when COVID hit and found themselves redundant, having resigned from the Links, and on training pay. So I suspect some are keen to hold onto their Seniority for a while longer.

But there are some Jet Pilots who took LWOP as well, could be a number of reasons. Notice periods at their current jobs, waiting for their preferred fleet, not ready to return… whole host of reasons to be honest. In the end, I suspect we’ll see I few resignations, but most will probably take a course in time.

[Seosan]

Thanks fellas appreciate the info 👍🏼

[78ZH]

Well looks like the best place to be is not in air nz regional but in a foreign jet operator as doors are going to open up to externals. Once again regional pilots will be shot down for recruitment opportunities as we are only gardeners clearly.

[KiwiAvi8er]

Originally Posted by 78ZH

Well looks like the best place to be is not in air nz regional but in a foreign jet operator as doors are going to open up to externals. Once again regional pilots will be shot down for recruitment opportunities as we are only gardeners clearly.

So you haven’t read the RPPP I take it?

[ElZilcho]

Originally Posted by 78ZH

Well looks like the best place to be is not in air nz regional but in a foreign jet operator as doors are going to open up to externals. Once again regional pilots will be shot down for recruitment opportunities as we are only gardeners clearly.

Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er

So you haven’t read the RPPP I take it?

Honestly, the timing is amusing.
Zero talk of external Recruitment to Jet yet has a rant on Prune about it the day before a Company memo stating a 100% internal recruitment goal.

Honestly, the top half of the RSL is the best place to be right now.
Just submit a standing bid for S8/7 or F20 and wait your turn.

[dctPub]

So when Air NZ needs bulk pilots again it will be Tag and Release 2.0 it seems?

Also some oddly specific clauses restricting external pilots in there, 8 years away from the regionals (the ol' jetconnect loophole) and stipulated experience for external candidates (well and truly above and beyond the company minimum requirements). Those few CX SOs that "slipped through"

Someone must have had a bone to pick.

[ElZilcho]

Originally Posted by dctPub

So when Air NZ needs bulk pilots again it will be Tag and Release 2.0 it seems?

Also some oddly specific clauses restricting external pilots in there, 8 years away from the regionals (the ol' jetconnect loophole) and stipulated experience for external candidates (well and truly above and beyond the company minimum requirements). Those few CX SOs that "slipped through"

Someone must have had a bone to pick.

Yep, someone clearly has an axe to grind with people "jumping the queue" and it's quite pathetic.
There’s was already a 2 year stand down in place if you left the group, but seems it got ignored for a brief period in 2017(ish) which has caused this traitor mentality.

The concept that many left the Links to actually get paid a decent wage while progressing their careers never seemed to occur to certain individuals.
Admittedly, with Eagle being no more and blended T-Prop Payscales that's less of an issue these days. Would anyone be surprised to hear that the bulk of Pilots who left the Links to fly Jets for the Aussies are ex-Eagle? I wonder why….?

[Seosan]

I’m an outsider looking in and have no concept of the realities of tag and release but do the regionals have such training capacity that when Jet fleet ask for 100 pilots exclusively internally they can just push through 100 command courses on a whim?

As a kiwi overseas (due to family, not queue-jumping) it has taken a while to come to terms with the fact that I may never get the chance to fly for the home carrier. Not saying it’s a right, but it would have been nice to have the chance to apply. I still find the new ethos quite an interesting proposal operationally.

[ElZilcho]

Originally Posted by Seosan

I’m an outsider looking in and have no concept of the realities of tag and release but do the regionals have such training capacity that when Jet fleet ask for 100 pilots exclusively internally they can just push through 100 command courses on a whim?

As a kiwi overseas (due to family, not queue-jumping) it has taken a while to come to terms with the fact that I may never get the chance to fly for the home carrier. Not saying it’s a right, but it would have been nice to have the chance to apply. I still find the new ethos quite an interesting proposal operationally.

Well with 2 Fleets, it would be 50 each so probably not a major hurdle, especially if they plan ahead for it. They couldn’t sustain that for consecutive years however as they’d run out of qualified FO’s to upgrade. That’s where Tag and Release would come in, but honestly at a ratio of 9:1 it would be an absolute shambles.

The current plan will work very well for the senior Link Pilots, most of which are well and truly due for a pathway to Jet. Long term however, many of us believe its going to create more problems than it solves and we’ll see more changes.

External or Internal, getting into Air NZ is often about timing, and which way the pendulum has swung when you apply.
Why they can never strike a balance between the 2 is beyond my pay grade.

[go123]

Could be wrong here, but it’s only Dash and ATR drivers excluded for 8 years hey? Not Eagle - because of the company being closed?

[KiwiAvi8er]

Originally Posted by go123

Could be wrong here, but it’s only Dash and ATR drivers excluded for 8 years hey? Not Eagle - because of the company being closed?

Correct