Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Air NZ Jet

Old 24th Jan 2023, 05:47
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Originally Posted by ElZilcho
Very few have outright failed, but there’s definitely been a spike in extra training required.

It’s not a problem “Regional Pilot problem” it’s a problem with removing the filter. The overwhelming majority of Regional Pilots have no issues transitioning to Jets, be it Air NZ, J* Cathay etc

Could be rough few months for the training department, but eventually things will settle down after certain regional pilots have either washed out or been carried over the line.

Its a very unique issue caused by allowing the Regional Council to write their own Jet Pathway, removing all screening processes and applying a punitive 8 year stand down to anyone who dared further their careers outside the group. Once we’ve filtered through the top heavy Regional List expect things should settle down.
correct, alot of the trouble would be removed with recruitment testing. You are also right in that the majority won’t have an issue.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 06:16
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I've never understood why the unions bend over backwards for the regional pilot group. It's not as if you have any other option in NZ anyway.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 10:55
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The feds have opposed this from the start and tried talking sense into the company to halt this nonsense of major restrictions to external recruitment, to minor success (now a 1 in 9 option). Alpa and fed jet members on the whole think it’s rubbish but the regional council have somehow hoodwinked the company to agree to it.
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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 17:54
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https://jobs.airnewzealand.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=VmHCq

Expressions of interest for externals.
See it’s been updated with info about the RPPP due to seniority concerns after tag and release.

Cant say I was expecting to see this open so soon, but perhaps for once they’re trying to get ahead of things.

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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 18:16
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Expressions of interest is just data fishing. Either your recruiting pilots or you aren't.
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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 18:52
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Originally Posted by Climb150
Expressions of interest is just data fishing. Either your recruiting pilots or you aren't.
We’re Recruiting, no doubts there. The question is, from where. Putting out the EOI to externals will certainly be fishing in the beginning, but suggests they could be looking to draw from that pool earlier than expected.
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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 22:55
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Smile

Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
I was chatting to a Senior person at Air NZ last week and was told they are facing a recruitment crunch. He said that quite a few people coming from the Turbo Props are struggling with the Jet transition and the company is rapidly coming to the conclusion they will have to recruit external candidates onto the A320 to keep up. I asked about the recruit to group and he said they had got around that before and could again if required.
Looks like the Senior Air NZ person may have been right
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 01:03
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Is the 8 year ban a hard blanket rule or a soft rule that changes with demand of external?
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 01:06
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Originally Posted by b787q300
Is the 8 year ban a hard blanket rule or a soft rule that changes with demand of external?
They’ll have enough external demand I’m sorry.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 03:00
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Originally Posted by b787q300
Is the 8 year ban a hard blanket rule or a soft rule that changes with demand of external?

5ey won’t start to vary that one as then people will leave the links at will, this way they keep the people in the group.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 08:15
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Could anyone please post a updated salary for a320 fleet?
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
Looks like the Senior Air NZ person may have been right
Looking that way. If this is indeed a direct result of the the known training risks stuffing it up for the rest of them then I hope the Regionals have a bloody good clean out of their Union reps.

Originally Posted by b787q300
Is the 8 year ban a hard blanket rule or a soft rule that changes with demand of external?
That will only change if supply and demand necessitates it. For the time being, it costs the company nothing to give the babies (Regional Council) their bottle. If that ever changes, the company will do as it always has… whatever it wants.

Originally Posted by Jbrownie
Could anyone please post a updated salary for a320 fleet?
Round numbers, A320 FO, base salary only
Year 1: $134k
Year 4: $150k (jump to year 4 after 12 months if you have an ATPL)
Year 8: $172k

They should all be increasing by a minimum of 4% in May.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 18:54
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The 8 year “sentence” is a complete farce.

So, because someone has been a previous employee of the group, had a clean record, achieved a command then left to get jet experience (because of Air NZ taking on externals at the time)...they are now punished retrospectively, compared to someone who has never worked for the group having no such restriction.

It doesn’t even serve any practical purpose from what I can see. If it’s designed to limit numbers of externals, the company will just hire from other external sources (Air Force etc). It doesn’t mean they will hire fewer externals, if they want externals they will take externals.

If it’s to limit guys/girls leaving the props, applying it retrospectively has no effect..the people like myself have already left, whether we get hired or not to the jet has no effect on people currently leaving or staying in the Props.

If such a punishment (let’s call it what it is) is so desired, why not make it a bit practical. Apply it from when the RPPP came into effect late last year, not retrospectively to people who made career decisions based on hiring practices years ago.

Or, for someone previously employed by the group, look back at their start date in the Props and compare that to the current RSL. If people with the same or similar start dates are getting jet slots, great! If not, maybe the external has to wait a bit longer? Then they aren’t ‘queue jumping’ as some are so worried about.

It doesn’t seem to have been thought through in a practical sense by either party.

Good luck to all.

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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 20:22
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Originally Posted by ElZilcho
Looking that way. If this is indeed a direct result of the the known training risks stuffing it up for the rest of them then I hope the Regionals have a bloody good clean out of their Union reps.



That will only change if supply and demand necessitates it. For the time being, it costs the company nothing to give the babies (Regional Council) their bottle. If that ever changes, the company will do as it always has… whatever it wants.



Round numbers, A320 FO, base salary only
Year 1: $134k
Year 4: $150k (jump to year 4 after 12 months if you have an ATPL)
Year 8: $172k

They should all be increasing by a minimum of 4% in May.
S/O salaries please?
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 22:27
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Originally Posted by On Guard
S/O salaries please?
Year 1: $120k
Year 2: $134k
Year 8: $153k

SO’s, on average, fly higher hours than 320 FO’s so the take home works out roughly the same.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 23:24
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Originally Posted by ElZilcho
Year 1: $120k
Year 2: $134k
Year 8: $153k

SO’s, on average, fly higher hours than 320 FO’s so the take home works out roughly the same.
Thanhs. Ballpark 170k all up??
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 02:07
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Originally Posted by On Guard
Thanhs. Ballpark 170k all up??
Hard to say.
A Year 1 SO would need to bee doing big rosters to make $170k taxable. If you’re including allowances, they’re port specific so vary with how you bid and exchange rates, but would probably bump you up to that level.

On the Bus, excluding allowances, probably average around 10% above base, SO’s 20%. Very rough Ballpark. Plenty of instances where certain fleets/ranks have been pushing 50% + Incentive Pay, but it’s not the norm.
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 02:55
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Thanks ElZilcho for all the useful insider knowledge. Whilst I’m aware it’s unlikely that any external will be recruited in the first place; is it common that Airbus rated drivers will get streamed for the 320 or is it simply luck of the draw with what’s needed at the date of joining?
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 03:08
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Highly likely that any and all externals who want it will find themselves on the A320. Previously, we ran shortened courses for current A320 Pilots (possibly all from J*) so if there’s enough starting at once they could possibly do it again.

There’s an interesting situation playing out at the moment. Previously, you could state your preference but ultimately went where you were told. Now, Regional Pilots can bid for specific courses and a large number of them don’t want to move to Auckland. As such, they’re bidding for SO positions or requesting Christchurch Domiciles for the A320, which aren’t guaranteed.

I have my suspicion that this EOI for externals could be specifically targeted at getting more A320 FO’s into Auckland, due to a combination of regional pilots struggling to transition and others declining Auckland.
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Old 25th Feb 2023, 00:16
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Jesus, that’s extremely good coin for a Second Officer. Surprised the airline is willing to pay that much compared to a A320 FO role. I know which position I’d take!!
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