NJS recruitment
I would argue that any training dept with a failure rate over 10% should be doing some serious soul searching. If it has gotten to 70% as claimed, then the only real option would be to clear the dept out and start again.
Rubbish.
NJS hasn’t expanded massively in recent years so quick progression and recently recruited hires coming up for command too quickly wouldn’t be an issue. This is an established airline that has been flying domestic and regional routes for decades so no new start woes.
The current FOs have been there at least several years. Flying the 717 multiple legs per day, no shortage of sectors. They’re familiar with the route structure, the aircraft, the SOPs. I’ll assume they’ve passed all their FO cyclic sessions without much trouble, as any issues there should be identified and sorted out before command training. The rewards of command will entice most people to put the work in to succeed.
But what you also need are good trainers to train people. The feedback seems to be they are now too focused on the Check rather than the Training . I come from a position that most people are good enough to be a Captain, and if most aren’t getting through then there are systemic problems in the training department. The mentality of “they just aren’t good enough” should be consigned to the RAAF tbh.
The culture of “the more people we fail the better that makes our standards” is horrendous and should be eradicated from aviation. The job of a trainer is to train a new Captain, not to fail them to look better and get your mate in as DEC.
I’ve never been in any company where 70% of FOs are unable to be trained to Captain. Totally unfeasible, so 70% of NJS FO’s aren’t bad pilots. It’s the system that is the problem. Nepotism in this case is not only bad for the psyche of a pilot unfairly failed on training but also has issues with CRM. Can you imagine a long term company FO, who put the work in but then was unfairly failed on command training, having to sit next to a DEC who’s never flown the aircraft before, let alone in an airline before but got the role by being mates with the training department? I can foresee all kinds of problems arising then…..
NJS hasn’t expanded massively in recent years so quick progression and recently recruited hires coming up for command too quickly wouldn’t be an issue. This is an established airline that has been flying domestic and regional routes for decades so no new start woes.
The current FOs have been there at least several years. Flying the 717 multiple legs per day, no shortage of sectors. They’re familiar with the route structure, the aircraft, the SOPs. I’ll assume they’ve passed all their FO cyclic sessions without much trouble, as any issues there should be identified and sorted out before command training. The rewards of command will entice most people to put the work in to succeed.
But what you also need are good trainers to train people. The feedback seems to be they are now too focused on the Check rather than the Training . I come from a position that most people are good enough to be a Captain, and if most aren’t getting through then there are systemic problems in the training department. The mentality of “they just aren’t good enough” should be consigned to the RAAF tbh.
The culture of “the more people we fail the better that makes our standards” is horrendous and should be eradicated from aviation. The job of a trainer is to train a new Captain, not to fail them to look better and get your mate in as DEC.
I’ve never been in any company where 70% of FOs are unable to be trained to Captain. Totally unfeasible, so 70% of NJS FO’s aren’t bad pilots. It’s the system that is the problem. Nepotism in this case is not only bad for the psyche of a pilot unfairly failed on training but also has issues with CRM. Can you imagine a long term company FO, who put the work in but then was unfairly failed on command training, having to sit next to a DEC who’s never flown the aircraft before, let alone in an airline before but got the role by being mates with the training department? I can foresee all kinds of problems arising then…..
Last edited by dr dre; 31st Oct 2022 at 03:48.
It’s an interesting concept. Are they asking questions along the lines of decision making processes that a Captain might have to make? Are they asking technical questions at a Captain level or FO level?
In the event that someone fails a “command interview” do they get training to improve ensuring they are ready for another attempt?
It sounds like a good way to weed out people you don’t like that’s for sure. Just ask them how many wheel nuts a BAE146 has on the right wheel and when they fail to answer…. Unfortunately it is the opinion of the management team that you have not met the technical prowess that our company requires you to meet to operate as Captain…
Do they hire Direct Entry Captains? Do they do a seperate command interview?
In the event that someone fails a “command interview” do they get training to improve ensuring they are ready for another attempt?
It sounds like a good way to weed out people you don’t like that’s for sure. Just ask them how many wheel nuts a BAE146 has on the right wheel and when they fail to answer…. Unfortunately it is the opinion of the management team that you have not met the technical prowess that our company requires you to meet to operate as Captain…
Do they hire Direct Entry Captains? Do they do a seperate command interview?
Sunstate and Eastern have a Command Standards process that must be completed prior to Command Upgrade Training. It consists of a Sim, Interview and Line Check. It's mainly about gauging the F/O's current level of Knowledge, Situational Awareness and Management and any deficiencies that need focus.
It's not common, but occasionally someone will fail one element of the process. It does not prohibit their ability to bid for a command but in a perfect world, the Company would then formulate a training plan to address any deficiencies prior to commencing any Upgrade Training.
In some cases, it's the foot up the ass that the odd F/O needs who thinks that just because you can keep the plane upright, that you'll sail through the Upgrade Training.
It's not common, but occasionally someone will fail one element of the process. It does not prohibit their ability to bid for a command but in a perfect world, the Company would then formulate a training plan to address any deficiencies prior to commencing any Upgrade Training.
In some cases, it's the foot up the ass that the odd F/O needs who thinks that just because you can keep the plane upright, that you'll sail through the Upgrade Training.
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Hopefully those that are leaving are giving a full and frank assessment of the Check and Training department in their departure interview. Unfortunately, it would probably fall on deaf ears.
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"...they're focused on the Check rather than the Training"
"Precisely summed up Joe. I am told that the company is suddenly concerned about the departure rate of pilots. The culture being the main topic of discussion. It will be very interesting to see if they have the stomach to do what’s needed and remove the cancerous components, or if there will be lip service and corporate BS only. Who woulda thunk that treating pilots like **** for the last decade or so would result in an exodus?"
Anything further to report from the above?
I hope Australian operators have learnt (or are learning) as all the major and second-tier airlines, worldwide now have DEC's on all their fleets. Korean, M.E., Europe, Asia... pick a country.
"Precisely summed up Joe. I am told that the company is suddenly concerned about the departure rate of pilots. The culture being the main topic of discussion. It will be very interesting to see if they have the stomach to do what’s needed and remove the cancerous components, or if there will be lip service and corporate BS only. Who woulda thunk that treating pilots like **** for the last decade or so would result in an exodus?"
Anything further to report from the above?
I hope Australian operators have learnt (or are learning) as all the major and second-tier airlines, worldwide now have DEC's on all their fleets. Korean, M.E., Europe, Asia... pick a country.
Thread Starter
Some of the popular overseas alternatives that guys are going for are hinting at Aussie bases. If this materialises it will push those who are teetering on leaving over the edge and drive the departure rate into high gear. I think all Australian airlines, not just NJS, will have to join the rest of the world in providing significant inducements if they want to retain staff. And as usual, the corporate geniuses are in a severe reality lag state.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
The command interview is used at NetJets Europe and at easyJet. It's not a guarantee you'll pass this as a few of our colleagues have found out. Before spending the money on the rest of the process, the company just wants to see that the candidate has looked at the manuals, has a good grasp of what's expected, knows the company ethos and is taking it seriously.
The command interview is used at NetJets Europe and at easyJet. It's not a guarantee you'll pass this as a few of our colleagues have found out. Before spending the money on the rest of the process, the company just wants to see that the candidate has looked at the manuals, has a good grasp of what's expected, knows the company ethos and is taking it seriously.
Even the union is now talking about F/Os not being treated fairly during command upgrades. Stinks of nepotism.
Where is CASA?
I am surprised this operation hasn’t been shut down. 4 Engine failures in 5 months is ****** Rumour is there have been more not included in the latest email sent by Mr Military.