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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 3rd Oct 2021, 10:50
  #721 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
Whilst I did opt to be fully vaccinated, I think this decision is the correct one.

Mandatory vaccination and the frenzy of misinformation regarding the unvaccinated is atrocious.

The unvaccinated will not hinder those of us choosing to be vaccinated and should not suffer any discrimination.

All this hoopla for a disease that worldwide has killed 0.03% of the population. Most of those elderly and with underlying (even if not known) conditions.
The unvaccinated are already hindering those of us who have chosen to be vaccinated. Ask the doctors working in hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney about the cancellation of elective surgery and all but the most urgent surgery. Substantial delays and deferrals are already happening, it's not a hypothetical "at some point if there is a surge" problem.

And regarding your claim that covid has killed 0.03% of the population, the death toll in the USA has just passed 700,000, with a population of 333,460,200 or so, so that is 0.2% of the US population killed by covid and that death toll is rising - 100% of the US population has not been infected/exposed to covid yet. So you're off by a factor of almost 7 there, and it will get worse - there were just over 118,000 new cases reported in the USA on the 1st of October alone, the average is around 100,000 new cases per day at the moment. That's in a first world country with a reasonable healthcare system and the ability to put people into ICUs.
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 10:59
  #722 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
They are already hindering those in Australia who want elective surgery, and in places that have not controlled it, it is hindering people who need an ICU bed. That is where we will quickly be if we don't achieve high vaccination rates, and, even when we do, out health system will be stressed by the unvaccinated.

We "discriminated" against smokers by taxing the hell out of tobacco because of the burden they placed on health- unvaccinated should get the same.
If 100% were vaccinated and we opened - our health system will still be broken on a bad influenza year.

Our health system paid for by all tax payers is far from adequate if we have "elective surgery" of injury/illness waiting lists of over a year - SO PEOPLE CAN RETURN TO WORK. Prior to COVID 19 hitting our shores.

It has been buggered for years! an attempt to fix was Medicare levy or private health insurance - that is a failure of policy.

Given the cases in WA, NT and QLD of COVID in the last 2 years - They should be Wait List free! Can you give the current capacity over the last 6 months for these states?
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 11:30
  #723 (permalink)  
 
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There is only a wait list for free elective surgery via medicare, outside covid it's not that hard to get IF you really need it. Big wait times come in if you want particular surgery and its not considered necessary or you want particular doctors to do it. At the moment there are restrictions on all elective surgery even in the private system due to covid precautions and restrictions.

Most elective surgery will be covered by medium insurance cover and you will have no wait time outside of covid if insured and go private. If you are working, under pension age, and don't have a disability you are a goose not to have private insurance in Australia, it will bite you in the backside at one point costing more than it saves you not to.
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 11:45
  #724 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
If 100% were vaccinated and we opened - our health system will still be broken on a bad influenza year.

Our health system paid for by all tax payers is far from adequate if we have "elective surgery" of injury/illness waiting lists of over a year - SO PEOPLE CAN RETURN TO WORK. Prior to COVID 19 hitting our shores.

It has been buggered for years! an attempt to fix was Medicare levy or private health insurance - that is a failure of policy.

Given the cases in WA, NT and QLD of COVID in the last 2 years - They should be Wait List free! Can you give the current capacity over the last 6 months for these states?
Not disagreeing, but this is where we are- Yes, there has been chronic underfunding. but that is the reality of our situation, and those who choose to not alleviate it by getting vaccinating will just make it worse.
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 12:13
  #725 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
Not disagreeing, but this is where we are- Yes, there has been chronic underfunding. but that is the reality of our situation, and those who choose to not alleviate it by getting vaccinating will just make it worse.

Ok but - banning drinking and smoking would have a 10 fold (or more) better outcome on both personal health and reduction on health care requirements over a longer time frame.

But that is the reality of our situation.

And those who choose to not alleviate it by drinking & smoking will just make it worse.
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 13:04
  #726 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Ok but - banning drinking and smoking would have a 10 fold (or more) better outcome on both personal health and reduction on health care requirements over a longer time frame.

But that is the reality of our situation.

And those who choose to not alleviate it by drinking & smoking will just make it worse.
Agreed! We are on the same page here, finally... (not necessarily about the 10 fold or more figure, but about the general concept). That is why alcohol and tobacco have such punitive taxes; if you buy a pack of cigarettes, about three quarters of the price is tax, bringing in about 17 billion dollars a year, and alcohol has substantial tax rates too, depending on the exact type of alcohol being purchased, bringing in billions more in tax revenue.

So now we are in furious agreement that alcohol and tobacco use have significant health impacts, which we try and reduce through targeted taxation that goes some way towards funding hospitals, which tax would you suggest introducing for those who decide their Youtube videos are convincing enough that they ignore medical advice and refuse to be vaccinated? And how would you administer it?
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 20:59
  #727 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Ok but - banning drinking and smoking would have a 10 fold (or more) better outcome on both personal health and reduction on health care requirements over a longer time frame.

But that is the reality of our situation.

And those who choose to not alleviate it by drinking & smoking will just make it worse.
Yes, And both are heavily taxed, AND, if your drinking leads to the harm of another, you are held rsponsible. Plus both are excluded from many places, including most most work places and, in the case of smoking, all aircraft because of the impact it has on others.

So, if you want to be unvaccinated in the comfort of your own home, fine- just don't come to work and don't fly.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 00:00
  #728 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
Yes, And both are heavily taxed, AND, if your drinking leads to the harm of another, you are held rsponsible. Plus both are excluded from many places, including most most work places and, in the case of smoking, all aircraft because of the impact it has on others.

So, if you want to be unvaccinated in the comfort of your own home, fine- just don't come to work and don't fly.
Wizofoz you talk of "unvaccinated" as if it's a disease you can catch and it will harm you.

Sitting next to a vaxxed or nonvaxxed person in the cockpit will not effect you in any way shape or form.

There is nothing you can catch from the non vaccinated person that you can not catch from a vaccinated person.

The tax makes deaths acceptable?

People should not go to work if they are sick they are excluded from work when they are sick - yes you can have COVID 19 without symptoms but still spread it - if the person sitting next to you is vaccinated and has COVID 19 they are less likely to have symptoms but still likely to spread the virus to you ( a bit like a concealed weapon).
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 00:05
  #729 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by De_flieger View Post

…And regarding your claim that covid has killed 0.03% of the population, the death toll in the USA has just passed 700,000, with a population of 333,460,200 or so, so that is 0.2% of the US population killed by covid and that death toll is rising - 100% of the US population has not been infected/exposed to covid yet. So you're off by a factor of almost 7 there, and it will get worse….
Covid hysteria based on lies, propaganda and ignorance.
The Australian Oct 02 2021
https://apple.news/Aip-0Nmj8Q02v--i6T7bIfw
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 00:08
  #730 (permalink)  
 
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From the article in the Australian on 2 October.

Titled: Covid hysteria based on lies, propaganda and ignorance.

“…The first is that many people haven’t got a clue about what the relative risks are. Ask them what they think their chances of dying would be should they catch Covid and most get this massively wrong – a good few get the odds wrong by two orders of magnitude (answering 30 per cent when at most it’s about 0.3 per cent). And we’re talking about one’s chances of dying before being vaccinated...”


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Old 4th Oct 2021, 00:36
  #731 (permalink)  
 
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Your chance of dying is relative to your age, your chance of long covid affecting the rest of your life is not. Over 60 and your chance of dying from covid unvaccinated climbs above 20%. For all ages your chance of long covid affecting your work or lifestyle is up to 30%, the chance of severe side effects 7%. That is from the many actual studies out there, not ill informed commissioners or news paper rag jobs.

Ok but - banning drinking and smoking would have a 10 fold (or more) better outcome on both personal health and reduction on health care requirements over a longer time frame.

But that is the reality of our situation.

And those who choose to not alleviate it by drinking & smoking will just make it worse.
Numerous minority groups have tried to ban both, it didn't work, why, because people like drinking and smoking and in the past form the majority of the population. The smoker population is still at least 10 times higher than any anti vaxxer population. You live in a democracy, get used to majority rule. Being a minority sucks ass, especially when your minority causes perceived harm against the majority. The majority sees alcohol related deaths and injuries 'well I enjoyed life, paid my taxes get lost', the majority see an anti vaxxer as an uneducated morons that are making us live longer in lockdown and spreading a virus that kills us. No one really cares about the stats etc, they just follow the rules and can't see why 'idiots' go against it causing the rest of society more harm.

Australia is a democratic society with socialist morals. That means we vote, but we plan for the greater good of the community not the individual. Some individual rights are of course necessary to protect those that innocently do things we may not like morally and so on, but they have to be proven not to affect the 'greater good' in any negative way. This is the reality in which you live. This is why court rulings and policing have statements on decisions like 'In line with community expectations'.

And before you start talking 'sheeples' etc. The anti vaxxers are still sheep from a different herd, otherwise they wouldn't bleat the same mantra and ideology. Just their herd is much smaller and slightly less intelligent
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 03:21
  #732 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Wizofoz you talk of "unvaccinated" as if it's a disease you can catch and it will harm you.

Sitting next to a vaxxed or nonvaxxed person in the cockpit will not effect you in any way shape or form.

There is nothing you can catch from the non vaccinated person that you can not catch from a vaccinated person.

The tax makes deaths acceptable?

People should not go to work if they are sick they are excluded from work when they are sick - yes you can have COVID 19 without symptoms but still spread it - if the person sitting next to you is vaccinated and has COVID 19 they are less likely to have symptoms but still likely to spread the virus to you ( a bit like a concealed weapon).
You are far more likely to be sitting next to an infected but asymtomatic person of they are unvaccinated, and while I have taken steps to minimise the risk, it isn't zero and it isn't fair that my risk is increased because of someone elses choice.

You're idea that vaccination is more likely to mask symptoms is psedo-scientific rubbish- you can't spread a disease you don't have, and vaccination stops infection 90% of the time.

As to cost- simple. You choose not to avail yourself of the vaccine, you know you are increasing the risk of costing the health service large sums of money- which you should therefore be liable for.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 06:51
  #733 (permalink)  
 
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to minimise the risk, it isn't zero and it isn't fair that my risk is increased because of someone elses choice.
That is life. Drink drivers and bad drivers kill innocent people every week, their choice your consequence.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 09:46
  #734 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post

Sitting next to a vaxxed or nonvaxxed person in the cockpit will not effect you in any way shape or form.
If you fly for QF/VA/REX or ANZ, thankfully, that’s not something we’ll have to worry about, because if you’re not vaxxed, you won’t be in the cockpit, you’ll be at Centrelink.
cool

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Old 4th Oct 2021, 10:53
  #735 (permalink)  
 
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And that should really be the end of the discussion on this topic.

Airlines have mandated vaccines. Get vaxed, keep your job. Don't get vaxed, look for a new one.

The rest of it is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 11:38
  #736 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere View Post
And that should really be the end of the discussion on this topic.

Airlines have mandated vaccines. Get vaxed, keep your job. Don't get vaxed, look for a new one.

The rest of it is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
not if you work for EL Al Israel airlines. Vaccination certificate is now only valid for 6 months. Time to get vaccinated again ..and again..and again…

enjoy!
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 11:44
  #737 (permalink)  
 
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not if you work for EL Al Israel airlines. Vaccination certificate is now only valid for 6 months. Time to get vaccinated again ..and again..and again…

enjoy!
As long as it stays free who really cares, takes 5 mins at the local GP or chemist. As you get older you'll find yourself on more and more pills and injections to stay alive. As someone said earlier 'it's part of life'. Most females have been taking the pill every day since their teens, again and again and again, whats the difference.
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Old 5th Oct 2021, 00:15
  #738 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
That is life. Drink drivers and bad drivers kill innocent people every week, their choice your consequence.
And their legal responsibility. Youthink we should charge unvaccinated who spread the disease like we charge drink drivers? I'm in!
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Old 5th Oct 2021, 02:24
  #739 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by union View Post
not if you work for EL Al Israel airlines. Vaccination certificate is now only valid for 6 months. Time to get vaccinated again ..and again..and again…

enjoy!
Just like my yearly flu shot What’s the problem?
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Old 5th Oct 2021, 02:57
  #740 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster View Post
Just like my yearly flu shot What’s the problem?
Your flu shot isn't Bill Gates injecting a micro chip to-to.....Why was he doing that again???
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