Qantas...Post COVID
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by Brakerider
lots of guys with 5000 hours couldn’t even get an interview at Mainline while they hired grade 3 instructors as SOs. There is no rhyme or reason when it comes to recruitment and most of us have learnt to accept that.
Last edited by Keg; 9th Jul 2021 at 01:11.
Originally Posted by havick
In most other countries including the US if you’re furloughed, generally almost all new employers require you to fully resign/terminate recall rights in order to be hired.
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
We haven’t been furloughed - we’ve been placed in limbo. Big difference. If we had been made redundant and paid as such, it’d be a different conversation.
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Redundancies are done Last On First Off. Most of the redundant crew would’ve had only had a year or so of employment therefore only be entitled to a few weeks of redundancy payout, which isn’t going to sustain them for long. Only a little more than gaining annual leave on stand down really.
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
The quicker people realise that Qantas Group Management don’t give a shit about individual employees the better. It is happening across the board, in NZ we had one base stood down while the other flew full time and apart from the first 12 weeks there was NO Government payments, they were on their own. In OZ you have Jetstar 787 Pilots stood down whilst the Narrowbody fleet was looking at recruiting. Management don’t care, they are engineering the survival of the airline to ensure most of the staff may have a future job to return to, that sucks if you are one that has been chosen to sacrifice your salary for 2 years but complaining to Management won’t help. Do what I did, remove yourself from social media, don’t partake in roadshows and press delete on your company communication emails…… you will be much happier.
The airline will only survive, and thus most jobs, If thats the best method for the parasites at the top to make the best out of this scenario for their own personal gain and legacy.
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
We haven’t been furloughed - we’ve been placed in limbo. Big difference. If we had been made redundant and paid as such, it’d be a different conversation.
furlough in the US is basically the same, limbo. You’re essentially fired but with recall rights.
My point is that any operator hiring typically only hires pilots that give up their recall rights.
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Originally Posted by havick
You're missing my point.
furlough in the US is basically the same, limbo. You’re essentially fired but with recall rights.
My point is that any operator hiring typically only hires pilots that give up their recall rights.
furlough in the US is basically the same, limbo. You’re essentially fired but with recall rights.
My point is that any operator hiring typically only hires pilots that give up their recall rights.
Comparing furlough and being "Stood Down" is irrelevant, to accept the offer of employment within the Group then you have to take LWOP.
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Late 90’s a %100 Qantas owned airline had no work , jetstar interviewing but pilots told it’s a separate airline and you’ll need to organise your own interview . Mainline union said they can’t help . All pilots let go . They have long history of not wanting to help too much along with unions protecting their own work .
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Originally Posted by Torukmacto
Late 90’s a %100 Qantas owned airline had no work , jetstar interviewing but pilots told it’s a separate airline and you’ll need to organise your own interview . Mainline union said they can’t help . All pilots let go . They have long history of not wanting to help too much along with unions protecting their own work .
Impulse aquired November 2001
Jetstar announced 2003, first service May 2004.
Please tell me which 100% owned airline had no work, because 95-97 and 99 onwards mainline was recruiting continuously.
As for AIPA protecting their own work- that is the whole basis of the above pots, AIPA is trying cover Network/ Alliance (etc etc) Pilots whilst not protecting the interest of their Mainline Crew- LH speaks for itself, SH Divisor (before this outbreak) was trending southwards due to increased flying (ask any SH crew in Perth/ Adelaide).
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Southern was name of airline . Pilots approached Qantas union but was told go away we don’t look after turbo prop pilots ! Although half the pilots where flying jets and had lots of jet experience . Impulse was turned into jetstar and Southern had to go . There was a job offer to go to Eastern so not all bad news .
Originally Posted by Street garbage
And what's you point? They are stood down, without pay, for an indefinite period of time, due to there "being no useful work", yet other section's of the Company- Alliance, Network- to which these stood crew were advised they could apply to- are recruiting externally, whilst they can't even get an interview. Management is deliberately placing barriers in their way to stop them being employed- any other explanation is just the usual QF Management BS spin.
Comparing furlough and being "Stood Down" is irrelevant, to accept the offer of employment within the Group then you have to take LWOP.
Comparing furlough and being "Stood Down" is irrelevant, to accept the offer of employment within the Group then you have to take LWOP.
I don’t agree with how QF or VA has handled their pilot group, but that being said it’s really no surprise that another company is shying away from hiring pilots that still have their foot back the pond of their old employer.
Nunc est bibendum
Southern was closed down in about '99 and the jets were sent to (and I think operated by) National Jet Systems as QLink. Then NJS was equipped a few years later with the B717 when Jetstar started with the A320.
There was a period of time between 2001 when QF bought Impulse and when Jetstar was started in 2004, that Impulse operated as QLink. AIPA were slow to understand what was going on and took a while before they come to the realisation that the other Group airlines were here to stay and they needed to reach out to those pilots. From memory that didn't start to happen until around 2008.
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
There was a period of time between 2001 when QF bought Impulse and when Jetstar was started in 2004, that Impulse operated as QLink. AIPA were slow to understand what was going on and took a while before they come to the realisation that the other Group airlines were here to stay and they needed to reach out to those pilots. From memory that didn't start to happen until around 2008.
A few SAA people drifting back to Aus now and they might be lucky enough to get a job flying for one of the Qantas operators . Hearing a mainline pilot complaining he should be first to get a group job ahead of someone off the street will be of little interest to such a person .
Good luck to us all .
Originally Posted by Torukmacto
A few SAA people drifting back to Aus now and they might be lucky enough to get a job flying for one of the Qantas operators . Hearing a mainline pilot complaining he should be first to get a group job ahead of someone off the street will be of little interest to such a person.
Jetstar did not exist in the late 90’s.
Qantas did not own Impulse at that time.
AIPA couldn’t have legally done anything for the Southern pilots because they did not have coverage of them.
And your point that current Qantas pilots shouldn’t expect jobs at other group airlines because Southern pilots weren’t offered the same, is completely undone by your own statement:
There was a job offer to go to Eastern so not all bad news .
There was a period of time between 2001 when QF bought Impulse and when Jetstar was started in 2004, that Impulse operated as QLink. AIPA were slow to understand what was going on and took a while before they come to the realisation that the other Group airlines were here to stay and they needed to reach out to those pilots. From memory that didn't start to happen until around 2008.
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody
Or they were under strict orders not to do anything. Given the number of AIPA Presidents who magically have ended up in QF management my money would not be on they didn't understand what was going on. Blind Freddy could see what was happening but you have to actually want to represent Pilot interests if you want to do something.
And I don’t think either of them pushed the Association in the direction you have indicated.
Admittedly, the last one was fairly recent, and his movement to management was widely frowned upon.
There was a brief president who didn’t want to expand to represent Group entities around the time of the commencement of Jetstar. He got voted out. Some folks blame him for creating an “us vs them” industrial climate that exists to this day.
However, since it’s formation, AIPA was not permitted to represent other entities, including other Qantas Group entities. The government had a change of policy at some stage (under John Howard I think) and decided to encourage Union competition rather than prohibit it.
I believe a rule change was sought by AIPA in 2005 (under RH). It was opposed by every party under the sun, including AFAP, and of course, Qantas, Jetstar and QantasLink, and I think it took at least a couple of years of legal process to succeed. Since then, AIPA has been able to represent other group entities. Since then, some pilots in group entities have chosen AIPA, some have chosen AFAP, and some have looked at the whole mess and chosen nothing.
AFAP got it’s own back recently by going through a similar process to allow it to represent QF mainline pilots, which was, of course, opposed by AIPA, and interestingly, Qantas.
AFAP succeeded.
