Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas...Post COVID

Old 9th Jul 2021, 00:42
  #421 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Brakerider View Post
lots of guys with 5000 hours couldn’t even get an interview at Mainline while they hired grade 3 instructors as SOs. There is no rhyme or reason when it comes to recruitment and most of us have learnt to accept that.
I agree that there is frequently no rhyme or reason about a recruitment process but those sort of idiosyncrasies are a very different issue to stood down crew with ‘no useable work’ not getting a look in despite being very qualified for the role when other parts of the group are recruiting externally.

Last edited by Keg; 9th Jul 2021 at 01:11.
Keg is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 03:25
  #422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: vegas, not 'las', or 'bris', but the other one
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Group???? There is no Group.

It is a series of completely separate stand alone entities.
mince is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 03:58
  #423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 3 Posts
In most other countries including the US if youíre furloughed, generally almost all new employers require you to fully resign/terminate recall rights in order to be hired.
havick is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 04:04
  #424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: East of Westralia
Posts: 550
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by havick View Post
In most other countries including the US if you’re furloughed, generally almost all new employers require you to fully resign/terminate recall rights in order to be hired.
We haven’t been furloughed - we’ve been placed in limbo. Big difference. If we had been made redundant and paid as such, it’d be a different conversation.
ScepticalOptomist is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 07:46
  #425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,969
Received 40 Likes on 27 Posts
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
We havenít been furloughed - weíve been placed in limbo. Big difference. If we had been made redundant and paid as such, itíd be a different conversation.
Redundancies are done Last On First Off. Most of the redundant crew wouldíve had only had a year or so of employment therefore only be entitled to a few weeks of redundancy payout, which isnít going to sustain them for long. Only a little more than gaining annual leave on stand down really.
dr dre is online now  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 08:20
  #426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Redundancies are done Last On First Off. Most of the redundant crew wouldíve had only had a year or so of employment therefore only be entitled to a few weeks of redundancy payout, which isnít going to sustain them for long. Only a little more than gaining annual leave on stand down really.
Thatís not what the company think. They believe redundancy is limited to which agreement you work under LHEA/SHEA.
Tucknroll is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 10:29
  #427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: preferably somewhere colder!
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
The quicker people realise that Qantas Group Management donít give a shit about individual employees the better. It is happening across the board, in NZ we had one base stood down while the other flew full time and apart from the first 12 weeks there was NO Government payments, they were on their own. In OZ you have Jetstar 787 Pilots stood down whilst the Narrowbody fleet was looking at recruiting. Management donít care, they are engineering the survival of the airline to ensure most of the staff may have a future job to return to, that sucks if you are one that has been chosen to sacrifice your salary for 2 years but complaining to Management wonít help. Do what I did, remove yourself from social media, donít partake in roadshows and press delete on your company communication emailsÖÖ you will be much happier.
I agree Ollie - except that management are engineering the survival so most have a job to return to.
The airline will only survive, and thus most jobs, If thats the best method for the parasites at the top to make the best out of this scenario for their own personal gain and legacy.
NGsim is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2021, 21:25
  #428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
We havenít been furloughed - weíve been placed in limbo. Big difference. If we had been made redundant and paid as such, itíd be a different conversation.
You're missing my point.

furlough in the US is basically the same, limbo. Youíre essentially fired but with recall rights.

My point is that any operator hiring typically only hires pilots that give up their recall rights.
havick is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 03:37
  #429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by havick View Post
You're missing my point.

furlough in the US is basically the same, limbo. You’re essentially fired but with recall rights.

My point is that any operator hiring typically only hires pilots that give up their recall rights.
And what's you point? They are stood down, without pay, for an indefinite period of time, due to there "being no useful work", yet other section's of the Company- Alliance, Network- to which these stood crew were advised they could apply to- are recruiting externally, whilst they can't even get an interview. Management is deliberately placing barriers in their way to stop them being employed- any other explanation is just the usual QF Management BS spin.
Comparing furlough and being "Stood Down" is irrelevant, to accept the offer of employment within the Group then you have to take LWOP.
Street garbage is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 03:48
  #430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Late 90ís a %100 Qantas owned airline had no work , jetstar interviewing but pilots told itís a separate airline and youíll need to organise your own interview . Mainline union said they canít help . All pilots let go . They have long history of not wanting to help too much along with unions protecting their own work .
Torukmacto is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 04:52
  #431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Torukmacto View Post
Late 90ís a %100 Qantas owned airline had no work , jetstar interviewing but pilots told itís a separate airline and youíll need to organise your own interview . Mainline union said they canít help . All pilots let go . They have long history of not wanting to help too much along with unions protecting their own work .
Late 90"s..really?
Impulse aquired November 2001
Jetstar announced 2003, first service May 2004.
Please tell me which 100% owned airline had no work, because 95-97 and 99 onwards mainline was recruiting continuously.
As for AIPA protecting their own work- that is the whole basis of the above pots, AIPA is trying cover Network/ Alliance (etc etc) Pilots whilst not protecting the interest of their Mainline Crew- LH speaks for itself, SH Divisor (before this outbreak) was trending southwards due to increased flying (ask any SH crew in Perth/ Adelaide).
Street garbage is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 05:11
  #432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Southern was name of airline . Pilots approached Qantas union but was told go away we donít look after turbo prop pilots ! Although half the pilots where flying jets and had lots of jet experience . Impulse was turned into jetstar and Southern had to go . There was a job offer to go to Eastern so not all bad news .
Torukmacto is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 05:32
  #433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Street garbage View Post
And what's you point? They are stood down, without pay, for an indefinite period of time, due to there "being no useful work", yet other section's of the Company- Alliance, Network- to which these stood crew were advised they could apply to- are recruiting externally, whilst they can't even get an interview. Management is deliberately placing barriers in their way to stop them being employed- any other explanation is just the usual QF Management BS spin.
Comparing furlough and being "Stood Down" is irrelevant, to accept the offer of employment within the Group then you have to take LWOP.
Not really, thereís nothing stopping a pilot from quitting their stood down job (giving up recall rights) in order for another company to take them on the books.

I donít agree with how QF or VA has handled their pilot group, but that being said itís really no surprise that another company is shying away from hiring pilots that still have their foot back the pond of their old employer.
havick is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 06:15
  #434 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Southern was closed down in about '99 and the jets were sent to (and I think operated by) National Jet Systems as QLink. Then NJS was equipped a few years later with the B717 when Jetstar started with the A320.
Keg is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 08:55
  #435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,054
Received 42 Likes on 21 Posts
There was a period of time between 2001 when QF bought Impulse and when Jetstar was started in 2004, that Impulse operated as QLink. AIPA were slow to understand what was going on and took a while before they come to the realisation that the other Group airlines were here to stay and they needed to reach out to those pilots. From memory that didn't start to happen until around 2008.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 15:23
  #436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 57
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Southern were still operating the three BAE-146’s post September 2001.

CharlieLimaX-Ray is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2021, 15:45
  #437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
There was a period of time between 2001 when QF bought Impulse and when Jetstar was started in 2004, that Impulse operated as QLink. AIPA were slow to understand what was going on and took a while before they come to the realisation that the other Group airlines were here to stay and they needed to reach out to those pilots. From memory that didn't start to happen until around 2008.
Thanks for the heads up .

A few SAA people drifting back to Aus now and they might be lucky enough to get a job flying for one of the Qantas operators . Hearing a mainline pilot complaining he should be first to get a group job ahead of someone off the street will be of little interest to such a person .
Good luck to us all .
Torukmacto is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2021, 04:09
  #438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Torukmacto View Post
A few SAA people drifting back to Aus now and they might be lucky enough to get a job flying for one of the Qantas operators . Hearing a mainline pilot complaining he should be first to get a group job ahead of someone off the street will be of little interest to such a person.
Very hard to see the point you are trying to make when almost every part of your original post is incorrect.
Jetstar did not exist in the late 90ís.
Qantas did not own Impulse at that time.
AIPA couldnít have legally done anything for the Southern pilots because they did not have coverage of them.
And your point that current Qantas pilots shouldnít expect jobs at other group airlines because Southern pilots werenít offered the same, is completely undone by your own statement:
There was a job offer to go to Eastern so not all bad news .
Beer Baron is online now  
Old 11th Jul 2021, 11:14
  #439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
There was a period of time between 2001 when QF bought Impulse and when Jetstar was started in 2004, that Impulse operated as QLink. AIPA were slow to understand what was going on and took a while before they come to the realisation that the other Group airlines were here to stay and they needed to reach out to those pilots. From memory that didn't start to happen until around 2008.
Or they were under strict orders not to do anything. Given the number of AIPA Presidents who magically have ended up in QF management my money would not be on they didn't understand what was going on. Blind Freddy could see what was happening but you have to actually want to represent Pilot interests if you want to do something.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2021, 13:34
  #440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Airborne
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Or they were under strict orders not to do anything. Given the number of AIPA Presidents who magically have ended up in QF management my money would not be on they didn't understand what was going on. Blind Freddy could see what was happening but you have to actually want to represent Pilot interests if you want to do something.
I think the number of AIPA Presidents to end up in QF Management over the past 3 or so decades is about 2.

And I donít think either of them pushed the Association in the direction you have indicated.

Admittedly, the last one was fairly recent, and his movement to management was widely frowned upon.

There was a brief president who didnít want to expand to represent Group entities around the time of the commencement of Jetstar. He got voted out. Some folks blame him for creating an ďus vs themĒ industrial climate that exists to this day.

However, since itís formation, AIPA was not permitted to represent other entities, including other Qantas Group entities. The government had a change of policy at some stage (under John Howard I think) and decided to encourage Union competition rather than prohibit it.

I believe a rule change was sought by AIPA in 2005 (under RH). It was opposed by every party under the sun, including AFAP, and of course, Qantas, Jetstar and QantasLink, and I think it took at least a couple of years of legal process to succeed. Since then, AIPA has been able to represent other group entities. Since then, some pilots in group entities have chosen AIPA, some have chosen AFAP, and some have looked at the whole mess and chosen nothing.

AFAP got itís own back recently by going through a similar process to allow it to represent QF mainline pilots, which was, of course, opposed by AIPA, and interestingly, Qantas.

AFAP succeeded.
HF3000 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.