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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:21
  #6241 (permalink)  
 
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A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:22
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Originally Posted by mattyj
for some reason they’ve revised the number back down again..for a brief time it was 12000 plus

“Between December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) received 12,313 reports of death among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

UPDATE: As of 2:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website modified the number of VARS reports related to COVID-19 vaccination deaths from 12,313 to 6,079, through July 13, 2021. The CDC's webpage Last Update date remains July 19, 2021.”
Okey doke, so that has been pulled from a secondary source. I think we've previously covered the problem with relying on secondary reporting of primary source data.

To further underscore the problem with secondary and higher reporting, the CDC does not use phrases like 'COVID-19 vaccination deaths' with regards to the VAERS reporting data. In fact they go out of their way to repeatedly stress that
Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.
Any reporting that passes off VAERS reporting as 'COVID-19 vaccination deaths' is somewhere between so woefully ignorant as to be useless and so maliciously disingenuous as to be dangerous.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:31
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[QUOTE=43Inches

One of the sad realities of letting covid run in the community is that those in aged care and those that are vulnerable will be shut off from having a normal life and consigned to a jail like existence, again comes down to what price is freedom for the rest of us. I have family in aged care, and they are have been in lockdown for most of this pandemic. Are you all willing to work hard all life and then be jailed in retirement instead of being able to travel? What is done to the old and frail in this instance will set the tone for how you are treated later in life.

[/QUOTE]

Agree with you on the comparative risk analysis (which our leaders and health authorities seen unable to convey), but your paragraph on the elderly is confusing to me - you seem to conclude that they will be imprisoned either way, whether through letting covid run, or in protective lockdown with everyone else?

However, to bite the bullet of your warning re the elderly, I would suggest that our economic ability to provide for this section of society (which was already under growing strain with retiring baby boomers and increased retired life expectancy) is dependent upon the younger part of the population being able to get back to wealth creating work that can underpin such welfare.

I would add that I'm elderly, fully vaccinated (AZ, nil ill-effect) and with no intention of being "jailed in retirement", as you put it!
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:33
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Originally Posted by dr dre
You guys keeping posting those numbers without ever including this statement on the exact same page:

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

You keeping repeating those figures but never include that statement. Every time you do someone sensible here points out that CDC statement, but you guys continue to post that rubbish again and again as if you’ve just made some incredible discovery the “brainwashed sheeple” aren’t aware of.

Can’t you see people on this page aren’t falling for this?
Thank you dr dre. Well said.
Whenever I come to read this and other threads I generally go straight to your posts.
They help me avoid the utter tripe written by several of the other posters.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:39
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A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal
Not normal, there is no normal behavior for virus in general. The main theory is that if a virus kills its host too quickly it will not survive, or pass on to another host. Covid as we all know is not as deadly as Ebola, so it has a long way to go before it is immobilising its host before given chance to transmit. Some viruses have become less virulent, some maintained the same and our systems adapted. Others were vaccinated or became dormant, or died out, there's suggestion the black death is just as deadly now as it was back in medieval days.

However, to bite the bullet of your warning re the elderly, I would suggest that our economic ability to provide for this section of society (which was already under growing strain with retiring baby boomers and increased retired life expectancy) is dependent upon the younger part of the population being able to get back to wealth creating work that can underpin such welfare
Australia is far away from ever not being able to afford that, they could cancel the submarine program overnight and double the aged care pension and still have change.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:40
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Originally Posted by mattyj
A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal
You need to be careful with statements like that. As viruses mutate the more transmissible mutations tend to dominate because they can outpace their less transmissible forebears in spreading throughout a population. It is unsurprising that the Delta-variant is more transmissible than previous dominant variants but it is largely happenstance that it is less virulent (has a lower case fatality rate).

Ebola, West Nile virus, and the Spanish flu are all examples of viruses that became more virulent after mutating. We also routinely see seasonal flus that are more deadly than their previous strain.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:57
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Originally Posted by mattyj
A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal

How do you know that?

PPRUNE has become DRPRUNE it seems....


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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 00:58
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Originally Posted by dr dre
You guys keeping posting those numbers without ever including this statement on the exact same page:

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

You keeping repeating those figures but never include that statement. Every time you do someone sensible here points out that CDC statement, but you guys continue to post that rubbish again and again as if you’ve just made some incredible discovery the “brainwashed sheeple” aren’t aware of.

Can’t you see people on this page aren’t falling for this?
Yes. Well put.

This was my connection to living in a coastal community with very old and visibly unhealthy Australians. They are getting vaccinated in large numbers knowing the COVID lessons from decadent and slothenly societies such as the USA. Of course, they are still dying in the same week, month or year as being vaccinated. Doesn't mean the vaccine is killing them.


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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 01:00
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And out of interest ( again ) can reluctant vaxers post as to whether they've lost their livelihoods in aviation due to COVID?
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 01:03
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Originally Posted by 43Inches

Australia is far away from ever not being able to afford that, they could cancel the submarine program overnight and double the aged care pension and still have change.
I think you're somewhat missing my point. Whether the nation's wealth is spent on submarines or aged care, it is only created by a sufficient element of the population being out and about labouring, paying taxes and buying goods & services.

Remove the current Chinese willingness to pay record prices for our fortunately socially-distanced mineral production (which happy circumstance owes nothing to our political decision makers) and the country would be (will be?) in deep trouble. Hiding in caves may be a short term expedient while awaiting a solution but it isn't the way out. Science is.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 01:06
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Queen P has closed QLD to NSW entirely. The last of the NRL family members were flown up to QLD late last night. Go you QLD you good thing!
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 01:06
  #6252 (permalink)  
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QLD shutting to NSW. WA shutting to SA. Qantas talking of stand downs again. Rex almost grounded. Well done Gladys. If only you had gone early and hard.. the Gold Standard ain’t looking to gold at the moment.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 01:15
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Originally Posted by SOPS
QLD shutting to NSW. WA shutting to SA. Qantas talking of stand downs again. Rex almost grounded. Well done Gladys. If only you had gone early and hard.. the Gold Standard ain’t looking to gold at the moment.
Its a replay of VIC last year....
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 02:14
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Originally Posted by SOPS
QLD shutting to NSW. WA shutting to SA. Qantas talking of stand downs again. Rex almost grounded. Well done Gladys. If only you had gone early and hard.. the Gold Standard ain’t looking to gold at the moment.

To be fair, Sydney mainly eastern suburbs mainly Bondi have flouted the lockdown from the get go. Those morning pictures on the tv showed ppl out side claiming to be “engaged in physical activity” increased ten fold. You can’t run with a coffee in hand Sydney.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 02:16
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Originally Posted by SOPS
QLD shutting to NSW. WA shutting to SA. Qantas talking of stand downs again. Rex almost grounded. Well done Gladys. If only you had gone early and hard.. the Gold Standard ain’t looking to gold at the moment.
SOPS you just found a new market. HBA-DRW.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 02:59
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I think you're somewhat missing my point. Whether the nation's wealth is spent on submarines or aged care, it is only created by a sufficient element of the population being out and about labouring, paying taxes and buying goods & services.
The point being you could drop the subs and have significant budget savings. The Australian domestic market has surprised me how resilient it has been to the pandemic, and not from printing money. Strong switch to delivered goods and services and the housing market going the reverse of what was expected, all shows Aussies have lots of excess cash available to drive the local market. Just because aviation is tanking is not sinking the country, like said before the basics of mining and our generated national wealth is so far protecting us. People are not spending money in foreign countries and instead on domestic produce, meaning more local wealth is staying put in Australia.

If you asked me last year what the economy would be like this year with continued lockdowns etc, I would have agreed with the doom and gloom.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 03:52
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How many Australians sacrificed their lives in Vietnam, Europe and Korea in wars against tyranny, socialism and facism..seems strange that this terrified generation isn’t willing to risk anything to be able to go to work or school
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 04:21
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It's not 'this' generation, it's the politicians governing said generation. I think you'd find a great many people are prepared to take responsibility (read, 'accept & manage the risk') for their own health in order to have an open Australia - I know I am - however, the politicians are trying to protect people from themselves, which is a cop-out if you ask me...

I just did a 2.4 round-robin in a plane I built in my back shed from bits that originally resembled a Meccano set. To some, that's lunacy, hurtling through the atmosphere several kilometers above the hard earth in something you built yourself. But to pilots & the home-built crowd, it barely rates a mention, for it's about appropriate (personal) risk-management, ie wearing boots, long pants, carrying a first aid kit & PLB, having ADS-B and lodging a flight plan so 'they' know where to look if I don't come home... But we can't be seen to allow people to accept responsibility for their own health & wellbeing these days, can we? That's too libertarian and 'Murican.

If the pollie's and their lapdog CHO's were truly concerned about saving lives, they'd ban tobacco in Australia outright and save 7,000 lives each and every year - but everyone here knows that'll never happen...
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 04:27
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Just heard on the TV the stats for vax at the major Sydney vaccination hub a couple days ago:

On one day:

50 AZ jabs given. 9500 Pfizer.

The winner is Pfizer, the loser is Australia.
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Old 22nd Jul 2021, 04:35
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Originally Posted by Green.Dot
Just heard on the TV the stats for vax at the major Sydney vaccination hub a couple days ago:

On one day:

50 AZ jabs given. 9500 Pfizer.

The winner is Pfizer, the loser is Australia.
Plus more bad news with 2 in their forties passing today after their first jab of AZ.
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