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Qantas Recruitment

Old 14th Nov 2017, 06:24
  #1041 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bran Castle
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by normanton View Post
There is no attitude at all, just stating the facts.

Your reply screams self entitlement. Let me guess, an unsuccessful internal applicant from Jetstar?

What makes you think I haven't done hard years in GA?
I never mentioned GA.

To clarify, I've never flown an Airbus, nor do I work for JQ.

My response wasn't meant to come across as entitled, more as empathetic, so I'm sorry if it appeared that way. It's up to candidates to prepare thoroughly for a sim in an unfamiliar aircraft, regardless of what they're on.

Glad you found the sim easy, but others haven't, that's what my comment about attitude was regarding.
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 06:39
  #1042 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,410
The problem with HR driven process interview is that the person with whom you interact may have little to no knowledge of the profession. Perhaps by design it is this way.

Technical interviews have a technique and format.

Behavioural interviews have a technique and format.

Whilst there may be token pilot presence on an interview panel, it is pretty easy to work out who has the 'chair', body language and other tells will let you know how it is to proceed.

This is all knowledge that is able to be garnished and assessed well before you enter the lion's den.

There are plenty of resources available to teach testing and technique. The days of the internet do help occasionally!

The recruitment process is a sort of game, not trying to be condescending to those stuck in the middle of it, but you can prepare and anticipate a lot of the likely directions the process will take.

gone are the days where pilots interview pilots. This industry is not alone. Financial professionals in my field labour through HR driven process. There is help.







In this bloke's day he would have told you 'every battle is won before it is ever fought'
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 07:47
  #1043 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 2,721
Some people have waited 9 years for a go at that sim, so when the pressure is on, it's not surprising when they struggle.
I am not sure I understand your point here.

So because they waited nine years for a sim check they will naturally perform poorly? What if they had waited two years or fifteen?

Sim check is a snapshot of your ability at that time usually in an unknown type with unknown speeds and characteristics.
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 07:50
  #1044 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
In this bloke's day he would have told you 'every battle is won before it is ever fought'
Spot on..... and to that end very little has changed
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 10:58
  #1045 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,248
Originally Posted by VHFRT View Post
They've certainly missed out on some really good people, and without sounding unpleasant, picked up a few who I'd have kept away from.
VHFRT,

That sentence could be engraved on a stone tablet and affixed to the front door of every airline HQ building.

It's hard to understand given HR's belief in the infallibility of their process but as true as the immutable laws of physics.
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 21:35
  #1046 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,410
It's hard to understand given HR's belief in the infallibility of their process but as true as the immutable laws of physics.
If you think conceptually about the role they 'fill', HR is really irrelevant.

They have invented a role, invented relevance and wedge themselves where ever they can; creating conflict where there is none, complexity where it isn't needed and inventing jargon to 'support the science of their endeavours'

There is little 'science' and less relevance...to them controlling a recruiting process ensures their own survival!


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Old 14th Nov 2017, 22:42
  #1047 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: between 20 & 30 000'
Posts: 35
when a department has to label themselves "talent acquisition" then you know it's gone a long way in the wrong direction.
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 04:28
  #1048 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canberra
Posts: 121
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Having been on the backend of a 'strange' recruitment decision or two myself, I won't pretend to be an unapologetic supporter of HR but ...

There are aspects of recruitment that are best handled by HR "experts" just as there as there are aspects best handled by subject-matter "experts".

No approach is perfect, and mistakes will be made, but I've noticed over many years professionally assessing people, the people who do miss out often (incorrectly) assign the "blame" to others when it really comes down to there being better people available.

regards
layman
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 23:12
  #1049 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
Has anyone heard any rumors or have any idea of the following;

1) Is Qantas still working through initial applications and conducting interviews?

2) Have start dates been allocated for next year?

3) When would we be likely to see applications re-open for those of us that missed out on this first round?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
Unbroken is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2017, 04:26
  #1050 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
I've been humming and harring about expressing my feelings with Qantas recruitment and thought I would share my experience to get it off my chest.

I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to progress to the 2nd stage - interview, 1 on 1, group activity ect but was unsuccessful in getting through to the sim.

I am a bit deflated about it all and have such an overwhelming sense of failure knowing that I did my absolute best to prepare myself. I think the hardest thing for me is getting no feedback from the day, only to be asked to apply again in 12 months time. I really don't know what to do differently and unsure what it is that recruitment are looking for. I know other candidates were able to redo their talent q if that let them down, others had 1 on 1 psyc. assessment if they answered the 580 odd questions in a way that would cause a review.

So perhaps it leaves me to my level of education, not having a university degree, noncompetitive HSC & ATPL marks compared to the other applicants - who knows, it really could be anything. Maybe I didn't answer an interview question the way they wanted. I don't mean to sound overconfident but I felt the day went well.

I think the sense of failure is compounded by seeing the new 787 on tv and some people I know getting through with me knowing their history in aviation - I am unsure how their progression happened but it did (I hope that reads right, not a personal attack against anyone but I have to wonder)

But also in saying that I certainly take my hat off to those that progressed and are now seated on the flight deck of a Qantas jet. They are clearly capable of something that I am not.
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Old 24th Nov 2017, 19:49
  #1051 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,248
Originally Posted by nexttime View Post
I've been humming and harring about expressing my feelings with Qantas recruitment and thought I would share my experience to get it off my chest.

I am a bit deflated about it all and have such an overwhelming sense of failure knowing that I did my absolute best to prepare myself.

But also in saying that I certainly take my hat off to those that progressed and are now seated on the flight deck of a Qantas jet. They are clearly capable of something that I am not.
nexttime,

Advice from strangers isn’t likely much consolation but I hate to see you being too hard on yourself. You played the opening period in a very tough game. It’s hard not to take it personally…cuz…it’s so freakin’ PERSONAL !!

Discouragement and frustration are understandable; it’s easy to let it rock one’s confidence.

Just getting an interview is a huge accomplishment so you must’ve shown them something they liked and considered to meet standards or you'd not have been invited in. Neither you nor those hired will know what they did right…or wrong…in producing the results. Most of us aren’t all that good at interviewing.

The process Down There and Up Here are likely very similar at the legacy level (and below). I’ve watched friends and acquaintances run this gauntlet for 4+ decades and seen airlines turn away some absolutely fantastic candidates. To this day, no one knows why. The airlines think they’ve got an infallible process bordering on clairvoyance. Umm, they don’t. They do an OK job of hiring good people but let a few real clinkers slip though.

An inside source up here told me of a guy hired by a place you’d kill to work for…on the THIRD interview. Mind boggling since the guy they hired on the third go is exactly the same guy they turned down the first time…and the second time. It’s foolish to believe otherwise. He merely learned how to spray better perfume on his dogs and ponies which speaks volumes about the game itself.

So, don’t let it get to you enough to erode your confidence. (Easy for others to say, I know.)

If they’ll let you interview again, do it…ten times if they’ll allow. If you can get some interview prep, do that too.

Hang in there and best wishes.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 00:42
  #1052 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: adelaide south australia
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by Unbroken View Post
Has anyone heard any rumors or have any idea of the following;

1) Is Qantas still working through initial applications and conducting interviews?

2) Have start dates been allocated for next year?

3) When would we be likely to see applications re-open for those of us that missed out on this first round?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
Be ready- reopening early next year, maybe even January! Good luck!
SonofCoco is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 04:43
  #1053 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 36
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by nexttime View Post
I think the sense of failure is compounded by seeing the new 787 on tv and some people I know getting through with me knowing their history in aviation - I am unsure how their progression happened but it did (I hope that reads right, not a personal attack against anyone but I have to wonder)
I completely understand where you are coming from. It's not a personal attack at all, its reality. I know people who got in early on who had a very suspect history, constantly failed recurrent sims, couldn't pass command upgrade sims etc.

Out of curiosity, did you do any interview preparation with flight deck consulting or pinstripes?
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 12:14
  #1054 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by normanton View Post
I completely understand where you are coming from. It's not a personal attack at all, its reality. I know people who got in early on who had a very suspect history, constantly failed recurrent sims, couldn't pass command upgrade sims etc.

Out of curiosity, did you do any interview preparation with flight deck consulting or pinstripes?
Yes, I did use one of those companies for my interview prep and found it an extremely helpful experience.
nexttime is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 18:12
  #1055 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lower North Shore
Posts: 147
nexttime, turn your PMs on
Brakerider is online now  
Old 26th Nov 2017, 00:37
  #1056 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Brakerider View Post
nexttime, turn your PMs on
I think I have to wait until a reach 5 posts before it's activated. So when that happens I will turn it on and shoot one to you.
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Old 27th Nov 2017, 01:17
  #1057 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by SonofCoco View Post
Be ready- reopening early next year, maybe even January! Good luck!
Thank you, appreciate the info.
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Old 27th Nov 2017, 05:12
  #1058 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Dubai
Posts: 19
Totally agree with nexttime, my understanding was further testing if you were deficient in clinical assessment or talent q " revalidation ". Interviewers seemed positive about interview responses.

Cannot apply to Jetstar if unsuccessful with Qantas.
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Old 27th Nov 2017, 06:43
  #1059 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,410
Nexttime

"Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never—in nothing, ...Sir Winston Churchill

Cold consolation when you aimed for it. The reality is life never follows a Hollywood script (where adversity conquered, the bad guy dispatched and the girl got) all in 90 minutes plus trailers.

Life is seldom revealed to us looking forward, we see its lessons as we look back. As Thomas Eddison famously lamented;

'I haven't failed, I just found 10,000 ways that didn't work.'

You will work your way around it and when committed to a course usually providence will move with you! With more failures than I care to recall, my experience is that I have seen many educated, wealthy (usually chose their parents well) and seemingly talented people fail.

The defining characteristic isn't privilege or luck it is almost always persistence.
Rated De is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2017, 08:12
  #1060 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Thanks for the wise words, it's greatly appreciated. I am starting to feel a bit better about the whole ordeal.

Qantas isn't the only option out there. I take comfort in the fact that by reading this thread, there appears to be some extremely talented pilots out there that have unfortunately missed out.

Unbroken (Louis Zamperini - great book!)

When I was interviewed they mentioned slots for A330 Sydney and 787 Perth, maybe Brisbane later in 2018. Unsure how quickly things change though.
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