300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
"It doesn't often help though with many Qantas pilots having a high sense of self entitlement and acting like they, and only they can fly jets safely in Australia."
This is also a load of crap. What utter horsecrap this skygods taunt is. Grow the fark up.
This is also a load of crap. What utter horsecrap this skygods taunt is. Grow the fark up.
It doesn't often help though with many Qantas pilots having a high sense of self entitlement and acting like they, and only they can fly jets safely in Australia."
This is also a load of crap. What utter horsecrap this skygods taunt is. Grow the fark up.
This is also a load of crap. What utter horsecrap this skygods taunt is. Grow the fark up.
BS. JQ staff will never successfully work in a QF uniform. The culture and mentality is LCC and simply wearing a QF hat will not change that. There is no way the staff I have seen at Jetstar will ever move away from LCC mentality and if QF do decide to go down that path QF is more screwed than it is today. Extremely unlikely to happen and management realise the limitations of the JQ culture.
BS. JQ staff will never successfully work in a QF uniform. The culture and mentality is LCC and simply wearing a QF hat will not change that. There is no way the staff I have seen at Jetstar will ever move away from LCC mentality and if QF do decide to go down that path QF is more screwed than it is today. Extremely unlikely to happen and management realise the limitations of the JQ culture.
Any kind of LCC culture is in the management, nothing more. Skimping on training, charging for ratings, outsourcing, fatigue, rostering, professional development, standards etc. It's all management decisions.
At QF it has often been the reverse, a sheltered workshop where too many (fortunately not all) expect everything to be done for them by someone else. A place where manufacturers have got it wrong with manuals, procedures, training paths being re-written to the QF way.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: toontown
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 18.........63 spare seats
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 19 .........99 spare seats.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 20 .........122 spare seats
Should I continue ?
Full you say ?
Idiot.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 19 .........99 spare seats.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 20 .........122 spare seats
Should I continue ?
Full you say ?
Idiot.
Again, looking from outside Aus what a lot of nastiness amongst fellow pilots.
Having gone through this process in UK you have to accept if your airline costs more to run than it makes, then cost cutting happens. Or you go bust.
As for the notion here that LCC crew are somehow inferior. They go through the same training, the same ratings and qualifications and usually fly newer equipment.
In Europe they probably have a safety record better than the Legacy carrier. For example the much PPrune denigrated Ryanair operate hundreds of sectors a day, some to airfields without ILS etc and have an almost unblemished safety record .apart from the odd incident which is to be accepted in any operation.
Grow up fellas times change.
Having gone through this process in UK you have to accept if your airline costs more to run than it makes, then cost cutting happens. Or you go bust.
As for the notion here that LCC crew are somehow inferior. They go through the same training, the same ratings and qualifications and usually fly newer equipment.
In Europe they probably have a safety record better than the Legacy carrier. For example the much PPrune denigrated Ryanair operate hundreds of sectors a day, some to airfields without ILS etc and have an almost unblemished safety record .apart from the odd incident which is to be accepted in any operation.
Grow up fellas times change.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Exiled in the Ukraine
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I've said before and I'll say again.
The 787-9s will be flown by mainline pilots, in QF colours on a separate award.
Why else would the company persist on carrying a surplus if there isn't a need for crews in the near to medium future?
Word is What Jetstar has now is as good as it's going to get going forward. There seems to be bit of a shift in mentality in the ivory tower of Jetstar being the groups golden child. I just hope IF our current mainline circumstances are repeated in Jetstar down the track they have the protections in their award to make things palatable.
The 787-9s will be flown by mainline pilots, in QF colours on a separate award.
Why else would the company persist on carrying a surplus if there isn't a need for crews in the near to medium future?
Word is What Jetstar has now is as good as it's going to get going forward. There seems to be bit of a shift in mentality in the ivory tower of Jetstar being the groups golden child. I just hope IF our current mainline circumstances are repeated in Jetstar down the track they have the protections in their award to make things palatable.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They go through the same training, the same ratings and qualifications and usually fly newer equipment.
The JQ arm of the Qantas Group:
a. Has a different recruitment standard approved by the board when they couldn't achieve the required level of recruitment numbers from 2004.
b. Requires lower flight hours for recruitment
c. Imposes environmental (crosswind limitations) limitations to FO's lower than that in the mainline operation
d. The training was outsourced and resulted in incidents where non sanctioned procedures where being flown. Recall the TOGA tap go around in Melbourne at minima in Fog.
e. The new equipment is provided by Qantas Group Treasury
f. A Command Training program at Qantas takes over six months. I am told the JQ Command training is substantially less.
g. I believe the QF recruitment process requires a Higher School Certificate, however Bruce Buchanan's (the former CEO of JQ) sprouted the line that "anyone can fly"
MC
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SUB,
As I've always said. The Qantas Pilots are so damn expensive to give Compulsory redundancies.
Alan's been so desperate to get QF pilots off the books, they approved VR payments to extremely senior pilots that intended to retire anyway.
Word is some senior pilots mentioned they might transfer back to the 737, when they actually wanted to retire. Alan gave them a VR as part of their retirement package.
The joint is run by clowns.
As I've always said. The Qantas Pilots are so damn expensive to give Compulsory redundancies.
Alan's been so desperate to get QF pilots off the books, they approved VR payments to extremely senior pilots that intended to retire anyway.
Word is some senior pilots mentioned they might transfer back to the 737, when they actually wanted to retire. Alan gave them a VR as part of their retirement package.
The joint is run by clowns.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 811
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mstr Caution,
Your points a, b, c, f, and g are incorrect:
a) Situation did not just apply to Jetstar
b) Qantas 500H, Jetstar 1500H
c) Qantas 20kt, Jetstar 30kt
f) Qantas courses are usually longer because they include a type rating. Jetstar actually provides more command training.
g) Qantas does not require an HSC.
Your points a, b, c, f, and g are incorrect:
a) Situation did not just apply to Jetstar
b) Qantas 500H, Jetstar 1500H
c) Qantas 20kt, Jetstar 30kt
f) Qantas courses are usually longer because they include a type rating. Jetstar actually provides more command training.
g) Qantas does not require an HSC.
Nunc est bibendum
A. I call BS. Some very reliable and highly placed sources indicate that the J* psych standard was changed circa 2007ish due lack of applicants that fit the previous (Qantas? ) standard. I'd put my house on the reliability of this source. Who else did it apply to? I've spoken to Qantas recruiters from that time and Qantas mainline certainly didn't lower their standard.
I'll take your word on b and c though I will offer one comment. Previous CPs have stated that under no circumstances would they ever consider having DE cadets into the RHS of mainline aeroplane. "Just not worth the risk" was one direct quote. It doesn't seem to hold up to the 'adheres to all the safety standards of Qantas' when Jetstar does something that Qantas is sits is simply too risky. Similar to two pilot back of the clock ops. QF risk assessment says 'no'. J* says 'no problemo'.
767 COM training is 9 sims if you have an endorsement and 14 (I think) if you don't. Can't remember the sectors required now either. Not sure how that compares with Jetstar.
G. Since when? We've needed it for the at least the last 19 years. Perhaps in the takeover of Australian there were some without it and some F/Es who became pilots I think had to do equivalence courses but not sure how that fits in with your comments as to more recent applicants.
However, all this comparison of penis size really is missing the point. After Qantas is done with mainline pilots the Jetstar pilots are going to be in the gun- particularly if the LCC is unable to sustain itself in the medium term. At the best many Jetstar crew may be looking at 20 plus years in the RHS if there is little expansion. Heaven help them if there is contraction. J* crew may well be begging for a MOU type deal then if mainline is starting to expand again.
I'll take your word on b and c though I will offer one comment. Previous CPs have stated that under no circumstances would they ever consider having DE cadets into the RHS of mainline aeroplane. "Just not worth the risk" was one direct quote. It doesn't seem to hold up to the 'adheres to all the safety standards of Qantas' when Jetstar does something that Qantas is sits is simply too risky. Similar to two pilot back of the clock ops. QF risk assessment says 'no'. J* says 'no problemo'.
767 COM training is 9 sims if you have an endorsement and 14 (I think) if you don't. Can't remember the sectors required now either. Not sure how that compares with Jetstar.
G. Since when? We've needed it for the at least the last 19 years. Perhaps in the takeover of Australian there were some without it and some F/Es who became pilots I think had to do equivalence courses but not sure how that fits in with your comments as to more recent applicants.
However, all this comparison of penis size really is missing the point. After Qantas is done with mainline pilots the Jetstar pilots are going to be in the gun- particularly if the LCC is unable to sustain itself in the medium term. At the best many Jetstar crew may be looking at 20 plus years in the RHS if there is little expansion. Heaven help them if there is contraction. J* crew may well be begging for a MOU type deal then if mainline is starting to expand again.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: toontown
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keg,
No point trying to educate these fools, wasting your time. As for the 30kt crosswind limit at JQ, a limit does not guarantee competence, never let many F/O's land in 30 kts ,only one, as the majority try to land a jet like a turbo prop and drop the wing prior to the flare and side slip it in. Do that in a 4 eng wide body and you get sent home early and shipped off to the simulator for your efforts. Won't matter really I guess, as they'll get by just getting through everything, steady she go's. You enjoy the 380 and look after your family. Let the goons elsewhere bath in their glory at the star.
No point trying to educate these fools, wasting your time. As for the 30kt crosswind limit at JQ, a limit does not guarantee competence, never let many F/O's land in 30 kts ,only one, as the majority try to land a jet like a turbo prop and drop the wing prior to the flare and side slip it in. Do that in a 4 eng wide body and you get sent home early and shipped off to the simulator for your efforts. Won't matter really I guess, as they'll get by just getting through everything, steady she go's. You enjoy the 380 and look after your family. Let the goons elsewhere bath in their glory at the star.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lancer
a. Keg's spot on.
b. Qantas take 500 hour pilots as Second Officers only. JQ take 1500 hour pilots AND low time cadet (250 hours) as First Officers
c. Aren't cadet First Officers limited to 10 to 15kt landings
f. Some Qantas pilots approached QF Flight Training & said if you want to reduce costs, why not REDUCE command training equivalent to that provided at JQ if they are training to an equivalent standard. The request was DENIED.
g. You can apply without a HSC, but the likelyhood of getting a job is close to zero.
a. Keg's spot on.
b. Qantas take 500 hour pilots as Second Officers only. JQ take 1500 hour pilots AND low time cadet (250 hours) as First Officers
c. Aren't cadet First Officers limited to 10 to 15kt landings
f. Some Qantas pilots approached QF Flight Training & said if you want to reduce costs, why not REDUCE command training equivalent to that provided at JQ if they are training to an equivalent standard. The request was DENIED.
g. You can apply without a HSC, but the likelyhood of getting a job is close to zero.
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 16th Jul 2014 at 11:41.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keg.
That would be the Perth-Jakarta returns BOC, operated to an equivalent safety standard.
I recall BB saying at the time it was ok for JQ, as they operated a fleet of modern Airbus A320 Aircraft.
It was PG that said that no cadet will EVER sit in the RH seat (due risk) of a QF jet for takeoff & landing.
That would be the Perth-Jakarta returns BOC, operated to an equivalent safety standard.
I recall BB saying at the time it was ok for JQ, as they operated a fleet of modern Airbus A320 Aircraft.
It was PG that said that no cadet will EVER sit in the RH seat (due risk) of a QF jet for takeoff & landing.
No point trying to educate these fools,
How someone like you got through the Qantas selection process, clearly shows there is vast room for improvement.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to a greater or lesser extent mr caution it has always been thus. its the modern businessman that is slowly perfecting it
there was nothing new about buchanan. if anything he was a throwback. he was right about one thing. anyone can fly. i am living proof.
there was nothing new about buchanan. if anything he was a throwback. he was right about one thing. anyone can fly. i am living proof.