300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
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A380 boss says on his blog that there is no plan for a second round of RINs. Surpluses will be managed by min divisors and assignment of leave.
I do not understand this under the current paradigm. Is there a chance that some 787-9s may still come and hence Flight ops are hedging their bets until that possibility is known?
If so good. If not...
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Particularly enjoyed the self-serving, self-congratulatory blog by the HOFO. What a FANTASTIC job the base and fleet captains have done EDUCATING us, the poor uneducated, unwashed pilot body. Thank goodness we have such a selfless group of people looking after our interests.
Where would we be without them.
(Any of them affected by the RIN?)
Where would we be without them.
(Any of them affected by the RIN?)
Flapper, the flight ops staff that are managing the process are not the same people who are making the policies driving the airline into the ground. To give credit where it is due, there has been a great deal of consultation between AIPA and flight ops. This, and the amount and quality of the information and advice coming from flight ops and AIPA has made the management of this ****ty situation much better than it could have been with a confrontational approach.
Last edited by theheadmaster; 15th Jul 2014 at 12:39.
The question is begged... Why?? Why keep a surplus? There is no cost benefit if the surplus is to remain, so why do it? In a couple of years we will be going down this path again when the final 744 goes.
Next year expect the same - headcount by X, budget by Y, nothing more, nothing less.
No point in exceeding the target, it would just make it harder the next year.
Management 101 - the Qantas way!
Nunc est bibendum
I do not understand this under the current paradigm. Is there a chance that some 787-9s may still come and hence Flight ops are hedging their bets until that possibility is known?
A few execs (well higher than FLT OPS) are on record as saying that QF can't afford to NOT take on the 787-9. They just needed an excuse to whittle away the engineering system (achieved that by reducing 744 irframes beyond what is economically viable to maintain in house and dispose of all 767s even if we do end up short of capacity because the orange cancer can make up difference even if our pax hate it and avoid it where possible), and keep the pressure on to achieve better (for them)T&Cs on the long haul fleets. They'll achieve that before mid next year and THAT is when the 787s will be announced.
They'll be geniuses. Bonuses all round.
I am with you Keg, except I can feel in my waters that change is coming for them sooner than later. Change that maybe we can believe in for a change.
I am by nature a cynical pessimist, able to find twenty dark linings in every ten silver clouds, but now I am getting the sense that the grand plan is about to be abandoned by a new cadre of managers over the next year or so.
An informant reported approaching a solitary Joyce who was eating a sandwich in the QCC lobby last week, unattended and unshielded. That his electron cloud of sycophants was elsewhere cheers me, and is in keeping with the vibe coming from two friends in senior corporate roles with our two best customers. That by itself is a slim body of evidence upon which to build an expectation set, but we are also hearing of a board spill coming soon to a campus near you.
The unhappy accident of Clifford and Joyce appears to have passed its use-by-date, and like last year's Limburger is too foul to salvage. Along with it the soon to be discredited policies, fantasies and ideologies of the current crop of idiotti.
I hope that your rank slip is short lived but rewarding. And I hope that the 787 orders are actioned soon and well. I won't be around to see them, but I am looking forward to hearing tales of my compadres in the midst of a training surge to finally right old wrongs.
(Mindful of the adage that there is no fool like an old fool, goodnight)
I am by nature a cynical pessimist, able to find twenty dark linings in every ten silver clouds, but now I am getting the sense that the grand plan is about to be abandoned by a new cadre of managers over the next year or so.
An informant reported approaching a solitary Joyce who was eating a sandwich in the QCC lobby last week, unattended and unshielded. That his electron cloud of sycophants was elsewhere cheers me, and is in keeping with the vibe coming from two friends in senior corporate roles with our two best customers. That by itself is a slim body of evidence upon which to build an expectation set, but we are also hearing of a board spill coming soon to a campus near you.
The unhappy accident of Clifford and Joyce appears to have passed its use-by-date, and like last year's Limburger is too foul to salvage. Along with it the soon to be discredited policies, fantasies and ideologies of the current crop of idiotti.
I hope that your rank slip is short lived but rewarding. And I hope that the 787 orders are actioned soon and well. I won't be around to see them, but I am looking forward to hearing tales of my compadres in the midst of a training surge to finally right old wrongs.
(Mindful of the adage that there is no fool like an old fool, goodnight)
I also wanted to comment on the observation that we cannot afford to not take up the 787 orders: that is true on two levels. We allegedly have a trigger price that is so low that we would make money through arbitrage in even the most dire circumstances. So even if we ordered them for someone else, to their spec, we would make welcome profits.
The other, oddly orthodox observation is: we have no other viable option. We cannot get 777 aircraft soon enough to make a difference, nor in large enough numbers. That is a game for 2021 at the earliest...two generations of MBA grads in the future. The same is true for the viable versions of the A350.
Despite its smallish payload, the 787-9 could be a bridge to the future...our option book is big enough to sell a few slots and still take enough hulls to actually expand the airline while our 2022 aeroplanes are being built.
On the other hand my wife may be slipping Prozac into my tea. Reckon?
The other, oddly orthodox observation is: we have no other viable option. We cannot get 777 aircraft soon enough to make a difference, nor in large enough numbers. That is a game for 2021 at the earliest...two generations of MBA grads in the future. The same is true for the viable versions of the A350.
Despite its smallish payload, the 787-9 could be a bridge to the future...our option book is big enough to sell a few slots and still take enough hulls to actually expand the airline while our 2022 aeroplanes are being built.
On the other hand my wife may be slipping Prozac into my tea. Reckon?
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Commiserations to those demoted. That many will never be Captains again in Australia is a very sobering thought.
In my case I have had to uproot my family and move interstate, but at least I kept my LHS.
Still it appears many are actually happy at this despicable turn of events. Last night I was at the Coogee Bay having a couple of quiet schooies. Sitting in the booth next to me was group of loud and very pissed blokes who, based on the conversations I couldn't but help hear, were Jetstar Captains and F/O's.
At one point in proceedings, the demotions of QF Capts and F/Os was mentioned. One individuals offered that "its about time those guys got what they deserved"
To my amazement, I saw all others at the table express verbal or physical agreement.
I dont know why I am surprised, but it saddens me that Australian pilots take so much joy in the demise of others.
On other matters, I found the HOFOs comments on his blog highly offensive also. It shows how utterly out of touch with reality the current crop of mahogany row dwellers are.
If him and his cronies had any cojones at all they would have stood up and properly represented the pilot group to senior management.
In my case I have had to uproot my family and move interstate, but at least I kept my LHS.
Still it appears many are actually happy at this despicable turn of events. Last night I was at the Coogee Bay having a couple of quiet schooies. Sitting in the booth next to me was group of loud and very pissed blokes who, based on the conversations I couldn't but help hear, were Jetstar Captains and F/O's.
At one point in proceedings, the demotions of QF Capts and F/Os was mentioned. One individuals offered that "its about time those guys got what they deserved"
To my amazement, I saw all others at the table express verbal or physical agreement.
I dont know why I am surprised, but it saddens me that Australian pilots take so much joy in the demise of others.
On other matters, I found the HOFOs comments on his blog highly offensive also. It shows how utterly out of touch with reality the current crop of mahogany row dwellers are.
If him and his cronies had any cojones at all they would have stood up and properly represented the pilot group to senior management.
mohikan, the same Jetstar people you speak of at the Coogee Bay have been gifted everything on a platter, and have been around 5 minutes to achieve it. They'll be the ones complaining soon when Cobham and Network start undercutting them. It sickens me that people who work for the same mob joke about other peoples issues, in this case over seventy people being demoted. At the same time they get all the new 787 equipment and scores more 320s to cannibalise alot of former mainline routes. Sickening.
The Qantas group will get 787-900. There is no chance a Qantas mainline pilot will be flying them
I couldn't but help hear, were Jetstar Captains and F/O's.
At one point in proceedings, the demotions of QF Capts and F/Os was mentioned. One individuals offered that "its about time those guys got what they deserved"
At one point in proceedings, the demotions of QF Capts and F/Os was mentioned. One individuals offered that "its about time those guys got what they deserved"
Knowing quite a few JQ Capts and FO's, I haven't yet had one say they are comfortable about their positions, in fact, quite the opposite. They are petrified because they know as soon as this mob of idiots leaves the building, the next ones will be growing the profitable part of the business...ie mainline (I'm talking domestic here..) They are well aware that JQ will be a short lived exercise at its current size. Probably worth remembering that although there are some absolute morons (like the CBH crew sounded) at JQ (and QF etc etc) they don't represent the majority of crew.
IMO, the biggest threat to QF/JQ/QL pilots are Cobham. As per the FSO...im sure they'll be welcomed to the jumpseat of a QF/JQ/QL aircraft on staff travel...
Last edited by goodonyamate; 15th Jul 2014 at 21:50. Reason: slip of the tongue......
This whole debacle makes a mockery of the Company tenet
At least they can claim to be adhering to another
wisdom of experience
Contempory Australia
Well, for the record, I have a great deal of sympathy for my Qantas counterparts, I have never heard anyone in Jetstar rubbish a Qantas pilot. I have heard plenty of people talk with green envy about their pay though.
At one point in proceedings, the demotions of QF Capts and F/Os was mentioned. One individuals offered that "its about time those guys got what they deserved"
What a load of crap.
No one in Jetstar that I know is happy to see what is happening at QF. Don't forget many of us are QF pilots on LWOP, MOU pilots or on letters of intent. Probably half the pilot group being conservative. Most of us grew up wanting to work for Qantas. The simple truth is a whole generation of pilots won't get that chance, as Qantas haven't hired since early 2008. It's not the Qantas pilots fault. It's executive management plain and simple. It doesn't often help though with many Qantas pilots having a high sense of self entitlement and acting like they, and only they can fly jets safely in Australia.
We all know a change of management will have a change of strategy. I said it when Jetstar first started. They will be wearing a Qantas hat in 5 years. It's taken a little longer but it will either happen. Maybe Jetstar will be sold to a cashed up buyer and probably destroy Qantas anyway. I don't think Qantas can afford to sell Jetstar Australia, but they also can't afford to keep it. The horse has bolted and Jetstar is here to stay. At least in Australia.
I'd expect to see 789s flown by Jetstar crew in Qantas colours probably based offshore to circumvent the industrial agreements. They may even be based onshore. It could be why management are very keen for a second officer rate in the new EBA for heavy crewed flights. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to for the current medium haul......It could also be why training slots in Singapore for the Qantas group are already booked to 2019 for 787s. Well in excess of a dozen airframes.
Oh and contrary to popular Qantas belief, the 788s are absolutely chockers on every flight.
No one in Jetstar that I know is happy to see what is happening at QF. Don't forget many of us are QF pilots on LWOP, MOU pilots or on letters of intent. Probably half the pilot group being conservative. Most of us grew up wanting to work for Qantas. The simple truth is a whole generation of pilots won't get that chance, as Qantas haven't hired since early 2008. It's not the Qantas pilots fault. It's executive management plain and simple. It doesn't often help though with many Qantas pilots having a high sense of self entitlement and acting like they, and only they can fly jets safely in Australia.
We all know a change of management will have a change of strategy. I said it when Jetstar first started. They will be wearing a Qantas hat in 5 years. It's taken a little longer but it will either happen. Maybe Jetstar will be sold to a cashed up buyer and probably destroy Qantas anyway. I don't think Qantas can afford to sell Jetstar Australia, but they also can't afford to keep it. The horse has bolted and Jetstar is here to stay. At least in Australia.
I'd expect to see 789s flown by Jetstar crew in Qantas colours probably based offshore to circumvent the industrial agreements. They may even be based onshore. It could be why management are very keen for a second officer rate in the new EBA for heavy crewed flights. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to for the current medium haul......It could also be why training slots in Singapore for the Qantas group are already booked to 2019 for 787s. Well in excess of a dozen airframes.
Oh and contrary to popular Qantas belief, the 788s are absolutely chockers on every flight.
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Blueskymine,
BS. JQ staff will never successfully work in a QF uniform. The culture and mentality is LCC and simply wearing a QF hat will not change that. There is no way the staff I have seen at Jetstar will ever move away from LCC mentality and if QF do decide to go down that path QF is more screwed than it is today. Extremely unlikely to happen and management realise the limitations of the JQ culture.
Your also wrong about the SO rate for JQ. That's to stop the movement of current 320 F/O's to the wide body to facilitate 3 crew to HNL. Just hire an SO rather than upgrade a current FO.
Your talking crap also about the 788's being full. My contacts with people that actually fly them is that the loads are poor. Stop dreaming.
BS. JQ staff will never successfully work in a QF uniform. The culture and mentality is LCC and simply wearing a QF hat will not change that. There is no way the staff I have seen at Jetstar will ever move away from LCC mentality and if QF do decide to go down that path QF is more screwed than it is today. Extremely unlikely to happen and management realise the limitations of the JQ culture.
Your also wrong about the SO rate for JQ. That's to stop the movement of current 320 F/O's to the wide body to facilitate 3 crew to HNL. Just hire an SO rather than upgrade a current FO.
Your talking crap also about the 788's being full. My contacts with people that actually fly them is that the loads are poor. Stop dreaming.
Outside limits what's a LCC mentality? The aeroplane must fly differently at Qantas because it has business class.
I mean come on, you're clutching at straws. I suppose Virgin Blue must have used voodoo or something.
Your contacts say they're empty hey? Well how about speaking to the actual guys that fly them! (sic)
I'm assuming you have staff travel? Try and get a seat. The loads are there for you to see. It's not a great mystery.
I mean come on, you're clutching at straws. I suppose Virgin Blue must have used voodoo or something.
Your contacts say they're empty hey? Well how about speaking to the actual guys that fly them! (sic)
I'm assuming you have staff travel? Try and get a seat. The loads are there for you to see. It's not a great mystery.