300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
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Wait! Did they hold hands/arms?
Mohikan, did you see the lovely couple , Sue Bussell and Ian Oldmeadow leave the premises arm in arm?
would've been a beautiful image !!
would've been a beautiful image !!
As the ramifications of the demotions on an unprecedented scale filter through the pilots and their families in the following weeks, CASA should be very concerned. If ever there is a real and significant reason to ground an airline it is now. The psychological impact on the people up the front is palpable. Wake up CASA and do your job. Where is the CEO? Hiding like a little boy.
As the ramifications of the demotions on an unprecedented scale filter through the pilots and their families in the following weeks, CASA should be very concerned. If ever there is a real and significant reason to ground an airline it is now. The psychological impact on the people up the front is palpable. Wake up CASA and do your job. Where is the CEO? Hiding like a little boy.
Qantas self grounded in 2011 citing "safety", but we all know this meant "industrial". It is very different if CASA ground the airline.
Pilots are trained to be responsive to stressful situations and make time critical decisions to ensure the best outcome:
I lose my income: - I rob a bank!
My wife bonks the postie: - I update! (Actually, that was a long time ambition).
My daughter dates a bogan: - I torch his Torana! (and reveal to him, his misspelt tattoo).
My son smokes pot: - with his connections, I deal coke!
Last edited by Potsie Weber; 7th Jun 2014 at 17:10.
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Had dinner with a consultant who had been involved with Qantas restructure. He said that once the grand plan had been rolled out and the long haul award was extinguished, the plan was to magically come up with a plan to equip Jetstar with 25 B787 to fly in both silver and red tails.
This isn't about pilots, it's about awards. Including the l/H flight attendants and engineers. There is a reason J* is working so hard on introducing the new 787. Their pilot award is 25% more efficient. Their F/A award is 66% more efficient etc etc
This guy would know, they are the guys steering the industrial ship in the background. It's what they are paid a lot on money to do.
This isn't about pilots, it's about awards. Including the l/H flight attendants and engineers. There is a reason J* is working so hard on introducing the new 787. Their pilot award is 25% more efficient. Their F/A award is 66% more efficient etc etc
This guy would know, they are the guys steering the industrial ship in the background. It's what they are paid a lot on money to do.
Last edited by qfpaypacket; 7th Jun 2014 at 23:00.
And he just casually mentioned this over dinner? Despite the myriad of confidentiality clauses that would have been in his contract.
There is a plan, it does involve stamping out today's conditions, but it sure as **** wouldn't be casually mentioned over dinner with anyone who has any links to this website.
And you can bet your house, once they are done with the QF contract, they will not stop there.
There is a plan, it does involve stamping out today's conditions, but it sure as **** wouldn't be casually mentioned over dinner with anyone who has any links to this website.
And you can bet your house, once they are done with the QF contract, they will not stop there.
Which all sounds great, BUT:
1) Jetstar isnt working
2) People dont like the airline
3) The USP 'Australian Airline' is gone
4) There is no loyalty in the pond Jetstar is in
5) Crew are actually not that more efficient and no attempt was made to change 'inefficiencies'.
They are incompetent and have destroyed something they did not even attempt to understand.
1) Jetstar isnt working
2) People dont like the airline
3) The USP 'Australian Airline' is gone
4) There is no loyalty in the pond Jetstar is in
5) Crew are actually not that more efficient and no attempt was made to change 'inefficiencies'.
They are incompetent and have destroyed something they did not even attempt to understand.
The scenario that Qfpaypacket has suggested certainly isn't that far fetched. Looking at the Bain website, their existence is based purely for the sole function to "assist" companies that have a management team who are incapable of running a bath.
The tragedy of course is that this should have been avoided by a competent team at the top who are/were open with their employees to discuss every challenge. Instead the us and them had never been stronger and suits the ir and change consultants to the ground.
As mentioned previously, net promoter score is a Bain company invention, it is tied to the short term executive incentive plan. Why any one person should be paid a bonus on Qantas is beyond me.
It would be interesting to know if and how much Qantas has shelled out in consulting fees to Bain. Of course Bain would say everything is on track. Their strategy with Joyce and Clifford at the helm is about to deliver a 1 billion dollar loss.
Any manager who needs the assistance of consultants is clearly out of their depth.
The tragedy of course is that this should have been avoided by a competent team at the top who are/were open with their employees to discuss every challenge. Instead the us and them had never been stronger and suits the ir and change consultants to the ground.
As mentioned previously, net promoter score is a Bain company invention, it is tied to the short term executive incentive plan. Why any one person should be paid a bonus on Qantas is beyond me.
It would be interesting to know if and how much Qantas has shelled out in consulting fees to Bain. Of course Bain would say everything is on track. Their strategy with Joyce and Clifford at the helm is about to deliver a 1 billion dollar loss.
Any manager who needs the assistance of consultants is clearly out of their depth.
Any manager who needs the assistance of consultants is clearly out of their depth.
Joyce and his coterie of totally incompetent yes-men justify their enormous remuneration and bonus culture on being 'the best' at what they do. Ignoring the fact that (as you so eloquently put it) 'they couldn't run a bath', how the hell do they justify the need for consultants to tell them how to be 'the best' - why not just employ Bain to run the show and cut out another EXTREMELY expensive and destructive management layer??
I think it is safe to say that almost never in the field of business has so much work by so many over so many years been wasted by so few in such a short space of time!
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Whatever the plan was, it isn't working. Qantas is running out of cash and Jetstar isn't going to save it.
The almost 3 month delay in delivering a flying program is indicative of panic. The plan has gone terribly awry and they don't know what to do to fix it.
Now the staff are being made to pay for the incompetence of management who in a few short years, have turned a strong profitable company into a cautionary tale.
The almost 3 month delay in delivering a flying program is indicative of panic. The plan has gone terribly awry and they don't know what to do to fix it.
Now the staff are being made to pay for the incompetence of management who in a few short years, have turned a strong profitable company into a cautionary tale.
A very dangerous game.
From where I sit Capt K, 100%
I mean it probably sounded great on paper. Notwithstanding of course the tragic outcome for thousands of families. But when was that ever a consideration for these sociopaths!
We all know the plan. Both sides of politics know the plan, with the exception of 2 honest individuals. as for the rest they have their noses so deep in the trough, or are simply too gutless to speak up.
The problem may be that the final prosecution of this wonderful peice of industrial and social bastardrey just might run the risk of ending the entire show! If that's the price to pay for keeping themselves out of jail, my bet is they're already preparing the parachutes!
Criminals!
I mean it probably sounded great on paper. Notwithstanding of course the tragic outcome for thousands of families. But when was that ever a consideration for these sociopaths!
We all know the plan. Both sides of politics know the plan, with the exception of 2 honest individuals. as for the rest they have their noses so deep in the trough, or are simply too gutless to speak up.
The problem may be that the final prosecution of this wonderful peice of industrial and social bastardrey just might run the risk of ending the entire show! If that's the price to pay for keeping themselves out of jail, my bet is they're already preparing the parachutes!
Criminals!
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Whatever the plan was, it isn't working. Qantas is running out of cash and Jetstar isn't going to save it.
The almost 3 month delay in delivering a flying program is indicative of panic. The plan has gone terribly awry and they don't know what to do to fix it.
Now the staff are being made to pay for the incompetence of management who in a few short years, have turned a strong profitable company into a cautionary tale.
The almost 3 month delay in delivering a flying program is indicative of panic. The plan has gone terribly awry and they don't know what to do to fix it.
Now the staff are being made to pay for the incompetence of management who in a few short years, have turned a strong profitable company into a cautionary tale.
griffin one
OMG the skygods didnt see it coming.
jump ship now or forever be a legacy.
OMG the skygods didnt see it coming.
jump ship now or forever be a legacy.
Another well constructed and intelligent comment from a bright spark. Symbolic of the new order of the aviation landscape.
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These threads have detail the fundamental disconnect with reality that many QF pilots seem to have.
I think earlier VJet was claiming that QF SOs are really in other airlines the equivalent of FOs, what an absurd assertion. And that he "couldn't understand" why any QF pilot wouldn't get any job they applied for. Really delusions of grandeur - there is a lot of talent out there in the big bad world.
Then has anyone got the exact quote that Barry Jackson made a while back in an interview, where he talked of the "cradle to grave career guarantees" or something that QF pilots are entitled to in comparison with the rest of the pilot community. Breathtaking comment.
Noticed on an earlier post the ref to the 80 A330 SOs - why do you have any ? There are no routes the 330 goes on that justify taking a SO, why do the 747 runs to Singapore have an SO tagging along?
These quote that seem to come out so regularly indicate that the QF pilots think they truly are the walk on water men. Regularly on these boards sneering put downs to other Aust airline groups , even Keg who generally is balanced will taunt the Jetstar pilots about the fact they are on "sh*t money"".
The tone of some of these posts you would think it is some kind of national tragedy ?? You are in business, and if the business doesn't make money redundancies occur all the time - they are part of life.
Prior to 94 QF long haul for many years was a loss making govt enterprise that had is losses paid out by the Australian taxpayer, and was the veritable "job for life" with luxuriant featherbedding in particular in contracts for pilots and cabin crew.
Kind of ironic when you think about how QF was set up as a "private" business, they just got everything handed to them for free by the Aussie govt (planes , buildings , all debts paid) , that they are know complaining about "Johnny Foreigner" and the big bad ME airlines being Govt subsidized. QF was given the ultimate govt subsidies when it was set up.
Only taken 20 years for it to be sucked completely dry.
Your effective international WB fleet is now around 35 takes you back to where you were 25 years ago doesn't it ?
Kiwis are nipping at your heels with around 21/22 ,only difference is they have new gear, and weren't dumb enough to buy the A380
I think earlier VJet was claiming that QF SOs are really in other airlines the equivalent of FOs, what an absurd assertion. And that he "couldn't understand" why any QF pilot wouldn't get any job they applied for. Really delusions of grandeur - there is a lot of talent out there in the big bad world.
Then has anyone got the exact quote that Barry Jackson made a while back in an interview, where he talked of the "cradle to grave career guarantees" or something that QF pilots are entitled to in comparison with the rest of the pilot community. Breathtaking comment.
Noticed on an earlier post the ref to the 80 A330 SOs - why do you have any ? There are no routes the 330 goes on that justify taking a SO, why do the 747 runs to Singapore have an SO tagging along?
These quote that seem to come out so regularly indicate that the QF pilots think they truly are the walk on water men. Regularly on these boards sneering put downs to other Aust airline groups , even Keg who generally is balanced will taunt the Jetstar pilots about the fact they are on "sh*t money"".
The tone of some of these posts you would think it is some kind of national tragedy ?? You are in business, and if the business doesn't make money redundancies occur all the time - they are part of life.
Prior to 94 QF long haul for many years was a loss making govt enterprise that had is losses paid out by the Australian taxpayer, and was the veritable "job for life" with luxuriant featherbedding in particular in contracts for pilots and cabin crew.
Kind of ironic when you think about how QF was set up as a "private" business, they just got everything handed to them for free by the Aussie govt (planes , buildings , all debts paid) , that they are know complaining about "Johnny Foreigner" and the big bad ME airlines being Govt subsidized. QF was given the ultimate govt subsidies when it was set up.
Only taken 20 years for it to be sucked completely dry.
Your effective international WB fleet is now around 35 takes you back to where you were 25 years ago doesn't it ?
Kiwis are nipping at your heels with around 21/22 ,only difference is they have new gear, and weren't dumb enough to buy the A380
Last edited by Flyboat North; 8th Jun 2014 at 05:16.
FBN, to construct a logical argument, you need to start with a premise that is true. Many of your assertions are incorrect. Statements such as
display a lack go knowledge of the regulatory framework that limits operations and also an ignorance of the network of the airline you are criticising. This makes readers question the credentials of the person making the claims. I will ask you again, as others have asked, what are your qualifications? What is your current job? What is your aviation background? You might go some way to establishing some credibility if you answer these questions.
There are no routes the 330 goes on that justify taking a SO
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Perhaps you could detail what routes the 330 does actually need a SO officer on, it is only going to Asia these days.
Jetstar also in compliance with all Australian regs flies to all the same cities in Asia with a Captain and First Officer , while QF has three pilots.
Just the Qantas arrogance "we are Qantas and that is how we roll, that is it end of discussion, we are special pilots"
Jetstar go to Japan , Bangkok , Hawaii - with two QF always take along the third pair of hands. Even Perth - Singapore I believe was a second officer run, what is that like four hours ?
You got lucky twice with Ansett falling over, and then a scarcity of competition over the Pacific for eons - but that competition was always going to come. But you were to arrogant to see that , and that airlines overseas were plotting to take you down. You were more concerned with how your management were treating you , if they were "respecting" you and grand concepts such as "engagement".
Jetstar also in compliance with all Australian regs flies to all the same cities in Asia with a Captain and First Officer , while QF has three pilots.
Just the Qantas arrogance "we are Qantas and that is how we roll, that is it end of discussion, we are special pilots"
Jetstar go to Japan , Bangkok , Hawaii - with two QF always take along the third pair of hands. Even Perth - Singapore I believe was a second officer run, what is that like four hours ?
You got lucky twice with Ansett falling over, and then a scarcity of competition over the Pacific for eons - but that competition was always going to come. But you were to arrogant to see that , and that airlines overseas were plotting to take you down. You were more concerned with how your management were treating you , if they were "respecting" you and grand concepts such as "engagement".
Last edited by Flyboat North; 8th Jun 2014 at 05:42.
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FBN
The posts that you have placed on this, and other threads, are so utterly crass that they become almost comic strip reading material. You have been challenged to disclose your aviation involvement but thus far you have failed to illuminate your so called knowledge base. As a pilot I find your ramblings associated with the threat of employment loss to so many people in QF distasteful. Please go away and play elsewhere.
Nkosi
Nkosi
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If its true what FBN has said in the above post, it does put QF at a big disadvantage to EVERY other operator flying up to Asia with only 2 drivers especially with the amount of airlines competing in the market.