MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

[Clipped]

I've always said .. there is ultimately a driven industrial agenda. Think like Clifford. Think like their IR consultants. Think like Liberals.

[Australopithecus]

"Think like liberals"

I tried that once and later had a wet dream about Gina Reinhart. Never again

[VH-Cheer Up]

I tried that once and later had a wet dream about Gina Reinhart. Never again

Your mother says if that happens again, you're washing your own sheets.

[Acute Instinct]

Beer Baron.....

AI - Should negotiations fail, the award safety net comes into place'. I'm fairly certain that is incorrect.
If negotiations fail then the current EBA remains in place. Work Choices got repealed (thank god). So the (admittedly crap) Aviation Award would not play into the equation.
Please accept my quote as a statement in summary. Perhaps I should have said 'if all else fails, at all levels of negotiation, the award is the safety net'.

[slamer.]

Liberal, miserable and cynical..

[Insider Trader]

Footage of Alan Joyce reviewing the results of the Qantas Group FY 13/14 before announcing them at the AGM

**** of a Mood - Original Song by vesternor - YouTube

[Blueskymine]

Yes, just to throw this into the mix. What would happen if EK bought Jetstar, moved it upmarket and rebranded it Emirates Australia? Or Emirates Oceania or something. Gives them domestic feed, and if they keep some SIN services, connections through their Singapore mini hub. I'm not suggesting this is likely, just throwing it open for discussion.

Just as an extra thought, the 777-200s that EK are about to phase out in Dubai, would make excellent transcontinental aircraft for the Australian Coast to Coast network. And they owe nothing. Configured in a two class cabin, with Emirates on board service standards and airport lounges, it would make a killer product.

Open a Sydney, Melbourne or Perth base for current EK crew who want to go home, the rest of the operation can be run from Network Control in Dubai, as it is now....chuck in Jetsars domestic fleet..wow, I am amazing my self at the out of the box thinking.

Change the brand to China Southern and that is exactly what will happen.

The genie is out of the bottle and Qantas knows it. They can't afford to keep Jetstar, but they can't afford to sell it either.

The option is to wind it back into mainline and cut the losses or continue to feed it. At this stage they continue to feed it, as the shareholders want to see a return in their investment. I'd imagine a change of management would see it wound back into Qantas. Domestically at least anyway.

[1a sound asleep]

Back when JQ was first commenced I thought, like many it was a horrible idea. I have always maintained that it diluted the Qantas presence and would eventually lead to misery

My far better option at the time was this. Operate the second part of the economy cabin not as Qantas but as a low cost section. Call it Qantas light if you wish.

Reduced seat pitch, no IFE, no free baggage, restricted carry on, no seat selection, no access to Qantas Club, no international connections, no free meals/drinks, no pillows/vlankets no QF FF points. Call it "second class" not economy so that business travelers (under most work agreements) would be unable to book it.

This would have dramatically increased route frequencies, avoided route closures and maintained the Qantas presence and loyalty.

Allegedly they looked at my proposal but the whole JQ justification was the unions. Now that JQ costs have risen it has become almost self destructive and pointless.

If EK are not involved in buying JQ rest assured there are one or two Chinese airlines that would be next in line.

[What The]

1. Stop another entrant (like OZJET)
2. Attack Virgin from both ends (successful until Virgin found foreign pot of gold)
3. Break the unions in Qantas (has cost billions and been unsuccessful)

Those were the original reasons for embarking on this very costly endeavour.

[Spey]

JQ Biz Class?

Bet the next roll out will be JQ Business Class on the AUS 320's. It really is a diabolical mess. The lunatics are in desperate need of high dose lithium. Qantas has been damaged beyond repair. This never needed to happen. Shakes my head in disgust.

[VR-HFX]

1a

Spot on.

The real agenda was to break the unions instead of investing for the future of the QF brand. You cannot run a full service brand against an LCC on the same balance sheet. Well I guess you can because the lunatics in charge have done it. But it will always end in tears.

I think SQ is tempting fate with the same kind of MBA idiocy.

The sad reality is that no-one from QF management has been on the shop floor for decades. They simply do not have the backbone for it. They live in a parallel universe where spreadsheets become reality because you can print them out.

I tend to agree with some conspiracy theorists that QF is being set up for a pig roast but on second thoughts I actually don't think management and board are that smart.

[Potsie Weber]

My far better option at the time was this. Operate the second part of the economy cabin not as Qantas but as a low cost section. Call it Qantas light if you wish.

Reduced seat pitch, no IFE, no free baggage, restricted carry on, no seat selection, no access to Qantas Club, no international connections, no free meals/drinks, no pillows/vlankets no QF FF points. Call it "second class" not economy so that business travelers (under most work agreements) would be unable to book it.

That was tried before during the Ansett/Australian/Compass war days and was a dismal failure, remember "discount economy" by AN and TN. Way too confusing for both staff and customers and led to much angst for all. It did not last very long.

[Dingowalkabout]

It's out of Jetstar, Qantas employees hands, the course is set and we are just along for the ride.
The most obvious seems to be a downsizing of Qantas to such a degree and rebranding of Jetstar to Qantas at a later stage with a lower cost base to compete.
I know that most Qantas employees would love Jetstar to just disappear, but that's not going to happen, it's an Airline in its own right and will ultimately be a friend or foe to the Qantas Group, hopefully a friend.

[busdriver007]

We all know that Dingo but the problem is how long will it take? The board have a lot riding on what is essentially a plan straight out of a textbook for consultants. What they underestimated is the strength of the brand that American Airlines did not have. It has taken a lot longer than expected to "kill".A lot of egos and money are riding on this and that is why is will get worse before it gets better. In the meantime they can't sell Jetstar and they can't reignite Qantas. The promises have been made for nirvana that is why the shareholders( big shareholders because the mums and dads are along for the ride) haven't buckled. In the meantime the risk taking will continue.

[SOPS]

And the mums and dads are along for the ride.....i got my Mum out of Qantas shares ages ago, luckily she is in a position that her investment in Qantas does not really matter here or there. Having said that, there are many many Mum and Dads that their investment does matter, and I cannot believe that they sit at every AGM, watch their share price collapse and vote that the CEO gets paid another 3 million. Something is very very very wrong, the whole thing stinks to high hell.

[Mstr Caution]

The most obvious seems to be a downsizing of Qantas to such a degree and rebranding of Jetstar to Qantas at a later stage with a lower cost base to compete.

The problem with this, is Jetstar can't be Qantas, even if they are rebranded as Qantas.

They can only be an imitation of Qantas.

Case example is Jetconnect. I've read passenger comments that although it's branded as Qantas, it doesnt "feel" like Qantas.

If it doesn't "feel" like Qantas, passengers may choose to fly with the competition.

MC

[1A_Please]

I cannot believe that they sit at every AGM, watch their share price collapse and vote that the CEO gets paid another 3 million. Something is very very very wrong, the whole thing stinks to high hell.

The problem is the votes of mum and dad shareholders at AGMs count for nothing. The institutions have given their proxy to the chairman before the meeting and the decisions are all locked away. On a few occasions the instos have done "native" but it is rare unfortunately and when a CL invitation is at stake it just ain't gonna happen.

[westjet]

While the split economy cabin was tried before, and did not work, that was long before the advent of the LCCs,and passengers getting used to the concept of paying for all the extras!
It works these days, for example all SAS European flights have Economy plus, and economy, a simple seat placard divides the cabin,
Economy plus provides all the usual economy frills, economy you get one free checked bag, free tea and coffee, but pay for everything else.

[Keg]

MC, a while ago they were publishing those Net Promoter Scores and comments to techies. After the first one I made the suggestion that perhaps they should vet the comments a bit more closely and not negative comments about lack of info from flight deck or other pilot related stuff when those comments came from flights that were actually operated by Jetconnect. The ratio of negative comments was interesting.

[Mstr Caution]

Keg,

I'm sure your aware of the website dedicated to JQ & its customer service standards.

Passengers provide comments about there service experiences on the site.

Simply rebranding the LCC as the Premium brand will not change the culture within the formers organisation.

MC