MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

[TIMA9X]

by Aeromedic post 3193

TIMA9X,

Can't be too edgy if they increase their shareholding.
There's something else going on and I wonder if they have information that should be public, otherwise it's just a punt.

Hmmmmm...

I agree, something else is going on, I think Clive may have stumbled onto it by chance.... not sure if he is the bloke to run Qantas though... you got to be good with people, something I don't think the current management nor Clive are gifted with..

I found this edited interview live on News 24, Clive doesn't mix his words, David Montgomery's (spelling?) interview was very interesting after the Palmer grab...






The whole QSA thing is a cover for something else in my view as well... Let's face it AJ knew the QSA would be a tough ask to get through the senate.. My take on it, AJ & Co know this and are using it to stall for time for some unexplained reason.. it can't keep going the way it is... the media are all over it now.. they will be watching LC & AJ with great interest..

The problem with Qantas is that the board has proved itself so poor that the case for making an investment is hard to justify at any price.

Read more: Winged, but is Qantas terminal?

Whatever shape Qantas finds itself in a year from now, it seems unlikely Alan Joyce will still be running the airline. The current board, led by Leigh Clifford, is also likely to be different.

Read more: Wing clippings for Qantas bosses

I think the dynamic duo's days are numbered... but like in all these situations, we will have to wait for the show to play out...

To put it another way, I reckon there are a lot of grumpy politicians on all sides in Canberra who probably didn't like the way the Q management have handled themselves over the last three months, so many mixed messages attached, which put some of them on a spot from time to time..



for those who missed it..

.

[Sunfish]

The name of the game is very simple: New York Hedge funds want control of Qantas so that they can use it to screw Australians even more. Open the skies. Where else in the world can you buy a 65% market share of a country's air travel?

[The Professor]

"New York Hedge funds want control of Qantas so that they can use it to screw Australians even more"

Partially correct. There is no business gain from simply screwing Australians.

There is however, a lot to be gained by moving large amounts of USD into a safe friendly currency before the big collapse.

[Square Bear]

We have competition now, but when the market is controlled by foreign interests in a duopoly market domestically and with the likely stakeholder's in that segment also dominating the international market. The consumer may not necessarily reap the benefits of "competition".

Can't see that we have competition as such now, but rather two companies competing without any seemingly fiscal responsibility, which no matter what, will one way or another, come to an end.

And just because the market is run by foreign interests does not necessarily mean that prices will skyrocket. If that became the case it would leave open a market for another player. We no longer have a car industry (did we ever have a totally Australian one?) and that doesn't mean prices will skyrocket due to lack of local competition.

Regards the suggestion that we will be over run by Chinese workers operating MEL ADL...Geez, where do people get these ideas. Virgin has a majority of foreign ownership and I haven't experienced that, nor do I suspect, ever will.

Oh, and please remind me which Government in 1992 sold a pretty good Australian Domestic Operation to QANTAS, and 3 years later privatised QANTAS. But somehow Abbott will bear the responsibility for that too!

[Oldmate]

Could someone in the know please explain the money path for frequent flyer. I assume the partners pay cash for points to give their customers, and then the frequent flyer business pays the airline business for redemption seats. Can a frequent flyer business run with no association to a particular airline? Does the ff pay commercial rates for redemption tickets? Any detail on this would be much appreciated.

[V-Jet]

ACTU letter to BGA:

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2...actu-joyce.pdf

Ref above: FF points work in a very basic sense like Credit Card payments. If you spend $100 and get FF points, Qantas gets 'paid' for them. In the old days it was obviously a reward for valued customers, but in recent years (again my thoughts) I believe it has been simply a ploy to wring cash from people. Not only are FF points of dubious worth (how many to go where on what day?) but they seem to be handed out like confetti.

As for value and worth if they flogged it, the floggee would need very strict conditions on the flogger (Qantas) that they not reinvent the thing 10 minutes later. I would only see the value in an extraordinary database which hopefully the new company could extract some value from.

Personally, I hanker for the old days where if you were a valued flyer you would be treated like gold, not as some vassal to milk at will.

[ramble on]

Palmer's own aviation management might be a goldmine for an investigative journo.

Start with 457 visas and keep digging.

[Fris B. Fairing]

V-Jet

Ok vannus mate, I give up. BGA?

I get who it is but, like Qantas itself, I'm from Queensland. Please explain?

I have searched and the best I can come up with is "Beginner's Guide to Aeronautics" which is probably pretty close to the truth.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Ok vannus mate, I give up. BGA? I get who it is but, like Qantas itself, I'm from Queensland. Please explain?

Try this.......

[500N]

The mood in the media really has changed, the number of articles coming out against Joyce is interesting. Including an Ex Qantas exec who is saying the strategy is all wrong and other articles saying he should go.

[Aisle Dweller]

Here is the link from SMH:

Alan Joyce's plan 'irresponsible', says former Qantas executive

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by oldmate

Could someone in the know please explain the money path for frequent flyer.

Well as best I can, but I'm not really that much "in the know".

Originally Posted by oldmate

I assume the partners pay cash for points to give their customers,

Yes. In the case of Qantas about 1c per point.

Which doesn't seem much but when you consider it is usually 1 point per dollar spent this means QF effectively gets 1% of relevant turnover of that business. A nice diversified revenue stream.

Originally Posted by Oldmate

and then the frequent flyer business pays the airline business for redemption seats.

Yes. Bear in mind that the airline set the thing up so they determine how this works.

Originally Posted by Oldmate

Can a frequent flyer business run with no association to a particular airline?

In theory yes, as long as they have an avenue for collection of points from somewhere and airlines willing to sell them seats. i.e. Negotiate a wholesale purchase price for seats and the airline will sell to you, how you choose to sell to your customers is your issue.

Bearing in mind most of these FF schemes were set up by the airlines themselves this is not the norm but it would certainly be possible. When Air Canada/Aeroplan undertook this route these issues needed to be determined. Presumably the auditors and legal types would need to satisfy themselves they can offer relevant services to redeem points in order not to fall foul of laws such as "bait advertising".

Alternatively by running a non airline program and keeping the points tally there but then simply purchasing tickets as customers seek to redeem points all the criteria are met.

Originally Posted by Oldmate

Does the ff pay commercial rates for redemption tickets?

One presumes that airline backed systems do whatever is most tax advantageous to them. It is after all an internal transfer.

Spinoffs would have to have their costs defined so one presumes they negotiate a wholesale agreement before they part.

External programs negotiate the best wholesale deal they can and go from there.

[Jackneville]

The Law of Unintended Consequences.

It would now appear that Labor are prepared to support
a Senate Inquiry into Qantas.


Betta get out the liquid paper Al.

[Airbets2040]

Senate Inquiry

Labor is to support the Greens and Nick X in a call for a senate inquiry..... Joyce's days must surely be numbered.

Labor to support Senate inquiry into Qantas

[Fonz121]

Brilliant.

"Mr Shorten, Qantas are shi!!ing on the carbon tax."
"Right, We'll show them!"

Labor is ready to team up with the Greens and independent Senator Nick Xenophon to launch a Senate inquiry into ailing national carrier Qantas.

This comes as the national carrier backtracks on earlier statements about the carbon tax, releasing a statement saying that the tax was ''among the significant challenges we face''. Earlier this week the company said its problems ''were not related to the carbon tax''.

Read more: Labor to support Senate inquiry into Qantas

[bdcer]

Are people really shredding or are you just mucking around?

[Aisle Dweller]

At present Qantas is shredding people not paper

[Oldmate]

Romulus and V-jet, thanks for the info re frequent flyer. It has always made me wonder when I see the results separated in the reports.

[DirectAnywhere]

This comes as the national carrier backtracks on earlier statements about the carbon tax, releasing a statement saying that the tax was ''among the significant challenges we face''. Earlier this week the company said its problems ''were not related to the carbon tax''.

It was unbelieveable that this statement was released on Monday, prior to the cabinet meeting considering the debt guarantee. When you are on bended knee to the government over something this big, you tell the public that you believe in little pink and yellow pixies if they ask you to. When the government is belting the opposition over the head with the carbon tax in parliament on Monday afternoon, and you want them to consider several billion dollars of unsecured funding on Monday evening, it beggars belief that you would be stupid enough to say publically that your problems are 'not related to the carbon tax'.

Hockey said on AM yesterday that he was 'surprised' at QANTAS' comments which is shorthand for, "These idiots seriously expect a handout when they're not smart enough to back us on this?" This is symptomatic of how stupid these execs are and was probably the final nail in the coffin for any chance of the debt guarantee.

I'm interested to know now how the board EVER plans to fund any 787-9s as they simply can't afford the price of debt in the marketplace at the moment. If they can't get those aeroplanes QF international is dead. It's that simple.

[Fris B. Fairing]

BGA

Thanks Sue. I get it now.

The "Big" part is irony - right?