MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

[neville_nobody]

So are we arguing here that CASA should pull the AOC if they are to be consistent?

Not sure what that actually achieves but I can see the argument.

[waren9]

well, the positive i'm starting to see is the increasing public questioning going on by more mainstream business commentators in the media

the ruse surely must nearly be up.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Watch CASA turn a blind eye to this one.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Full email sent to our members today.




I just wanted to touch base with you all before Qantas make some further adverse announcements tomorrow to explain the message we will be delivering publically. Bear in mind that the press is a funny beast with certain reporters trying to press buttons to draw out comments to suit their papers or shows. I find the easiest form of media to deal with being live interviews where words can’t be taken out of context. Another thing to remember is that you only get a very short few words in, that limit complex explanations about matters such as how and who leases aircraft to Qantas and why many of the ownership structures lead to untraceable persons in the Falkland Islands. The main topics we will discuss related to the announcement will follow the format below with our reasons explained.





Qantas Sale Act Changes





We totally oppose any change to the Act that will allow foreign ownership. Foreign ownership to the point of complete control of Ansett saw it asset stripped and destroyed. The same would happen at Qantas and many of the people at Ansett at the time are now pulling strings within your company. Qantas are currently 38% foreign owned with the cap set at 49%. There is plenty of scope to raise funds offshore now but no buyers are interested because they wouldn’t have the control that would allow them to embark on an asset stripping exercise.





The Qantas Sale Act has been in place since the airline was privatised. Only the current Board and CEO have failed to deliver a profit with the Sale Act in place. When investors brought the airline from Australia they did so knowing there was a Sale Act that placed obligations on the owners. If the owners/investors wanted an airline that was not restricted by the Sale Act they should have brought Virgin shares. Speculative investment in Qantas should not be rewarded for those investors banking on a Government that would be tricked into changes to the Act.





A Government Debt Guarantee





We totally oppose this option also. This would enable Qantas to secure cheaper loans and borrow more money. The current Board have shown they do not understand Aviation enough to know where to invest to make their business viable. Whilst Aviation people would immediately think of upgrading older aircraft to 777 variants that would allow Qantas to fly direct to many overseas destinations, it would be more likely that the current Board would use the money to embark on more ventures into Asia with new Jetstar franchises to add to their failing Jetstar portfolios.





Money not spent in this manner would allow them to offer even lower unsustainable Domestic airfares to continue trying to crush the competition from Virgin in what could only be viewed as an unhealthy airfare war between two men in a battle for the biggest ego. Either way the new loans they would most likely take out would not deliver a profitable sustainable airline, just further debt that would be almost impossible to pay off.





Qantas CEO Future





We have and will be calling for Alan Joyce to move on. It’s not that we have any personal issue with him perse, he is however the face of a Board that have put thousands of Australians out of work and placed Qantas in the dire position they now find themselves. The strategy they have adopted is now risking the employment of 30,000 Australians and someone needs to get out there and state the obvious. If Mr Joyce was to come out and admit that in hindsight the strategy was not working and he was now going to concentrate on the core business he would have our full support but we consider that turn of events highly unlikely.





Removing the CEO is not the complete answer though as most of us would be aware, it is Leigh Clifford, the man who nearly destroyed RIO Tinto with an ongoing war with workers who is a bigger problem. It’s too complicated to double up and also call for his resignation though because the average Australian has never even heard of him.





Jetstar





We fully support the continued operation and ownership of Jetstar in Australia. They have provided a viable option for people shopping for budget travel and have expanded the pool of people willing travel on aircraft within the Qantas Group. We have seen countless examples of Qantas cross subsidising Jetstar Australia operations and don’t really have a problem with that because all the money stays in the Group. We would like the Board to be more open about this though rather than claim that Qantas International are completely unviable when that is not the case.





The Asian Jetstar franchises are killing the whole Group. We estimate that $1B has been wasted chasing double digit growth in growing Asian markets on the assumption that Asian nations and their business leaders will not protect their turf. The return on investment for these ventures has been zero with no light at the end of the tunnel.





ALAEA not Meeting with CEO on Friday





We’ve been to enough of these meetings to know that it will be a waste of time. They will show the same presentation that is released to the stock exchange, ask if we have any questions and then never answer one of them directly. No new information would be forthcoming. Additionally the ACTU people who know nothing about Aviation will take the lead making irrelevant points and limiting what we could say for the sake of harmony. The ACTU would most likely form a position on our behalf backed by big unions with a handful of Qantas members that would lock us into a position that would be to the detriment of our members. We need to conduct our consultation in different forums free from ACTU influence.





If we were present at the Friday meeting it also would mean that every union was present. If that was the case it would allow Qantas to make public comments about “all the unions understanding our issues”. There needs to be one union absent to prevent allowance of these erroneous comments and that will be us.





Loss of Market Share





Qantas claim that there is a constant reduction in the share of passengers willing to fly Qantas Internationally. This is only because Qantas have reduced flights whilst competitors have increased them. We do not accept that the majority of travellers only chose their airline based on price. A vast majority still consider quality, service and safety as the main determining factors they consider when buying a ticket. Generally Qantas may sell tickets 1%-10% higher than competition but when they compete head to head with cheaper competitors, Qantas loads are nearly always higher than the other airline.





Uncompetitive Union Labour and Unco-operative Unions





Qantas will be trying to create the impression that high wages and uncompetitive work practices are to blame and that unions will not co-operate with change. They know this will draw easy support from suckers in the Coalition Government. The ALAEA have demonstrated over a long period of time that we are willing to work with them to make Qantas better. 737 c-check were reduced from 41 days to 19 days because of our work giving them the fastest heavy maintenance turn times in the world. The ALAEA also offered 25% less take home wages at Avalon this year to keep the base open knowing that the difference in price between Avalon and Hong Kong was less than 3%. The Avalon offer was the most generous union offer made in any industry in this country to keep work within Australia but for reasons unknown, it was rejected.





We don’t know what this mob will announce on Thursday but our initial position will be one of co-operation to ensure that jobs are protected. Any consideration of change will only be endorsed after the support of members is attained at membership meetings. We look forward to speaking to you at the Rowers club and other usual venues.





Cheers


Steve P

[Ida down]

Pilots eat vegetables in the sixties? Nah, those blokes were mainly the ones that survived Bomber Command, tough as nails, quite mad some of them, but could fly yer backside off, and not beyond hurling a manual at you if you pis$ed them off. No Flight Attendant would have dreamt of taking them up a offering of Broccoli, accompanied by parrot seed, and a glass of pumpkin juice, it was a pie, hot dog, or a sandwich with a bloody great lump of corned beef inside, with a tablespoon of hot mustard. Most are still alive, just, still mad, but still around. The best pilots I have ever seen. One bloke I was with, as a very junior F/O, going into OOL, ****e of a night, the aircraft was all over the sky, and behaving like a bronco, worried? Nah not him, had a scratch, a slow look around, and as she came to settle I am thinking Faaaaaaaack, as she was buffeted sideways, he puts her down, one hand, like a cat pis$ing on glass, and finished his scratch. Vegetables? Not those blokes.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

My email

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you to express my concern about the terrible state that Qantas (our proud National Carrier) has found itself in. On the eve on what can only be described as a day of reckoning for potentially thousands of employees, I feel compelled to ask that this entire reign of Alan Joyce be forensically investigated.

So much blame has been attributed to pilots and engineers for their role in the destruction of the company. I ask you to investigate the truth about this claim, as the only Qantas staff I know are hard working, dedicated and professional who treat Qantas as their own. They are the reason the company is still going today. They are the reason the shareholders have a glimmer of hope and they are the reason Qantas is still a fine airline worthy of its place in aviation history.

I implore you to subject the claims made by management that Qantas is not viable in its current form to the closest scrutiny in terms of an accounting, industrial relations and corporate governance sense. And if there is anything left over after that, maybe even in a pure, human decency sense.

Qantas management has sullied the good name of Qantas, and of its loyal workforce with impunity and in doing so, adversely affected the lives of all who work there by ensuring a cloud hangs over their future.

I ask you to please take an interest in the facts surrounding the decay of our airline. If you don't, I fear we will all look back at the next few days, in years to come with pure, irreparable regret.

Name withheld

[gordonfvckingramsay]

And the recipients for those who may want to follow suit.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

[The Green Goblin]

The aviation expert.

3 veg? Well what would you like the pilots to do? Bring their own meals?

Oh wait, some muppet in screening will consider them a deadly weapon. You know, a tin of baked beans over 100 ml obviously constitutes an IED?, Or home made frozen meals could be used for an improvised blunt trauma weapon? Winning yet?

After eating cheap nasty airline food for a career, do you think the old ticker will be in good shape? Heard of OH&S? It's not like you can pull over and get a healthy option.

I suppose we should be fed a meat pie or a sausage roll?

I'd love to hear your right of reply.

[FYSTI]

More interesting quotes from 6 Nov 2011

Originally Posted by Alan Joyce

Secondly, I could have decided that we continue the way we were going. We had already been in dispute for months. We had already been in a dispute that cost us, as I said at that AGM, $68 million. We had already had 70,000 passengers disrupted. We had already seen hundreds of flights cancelled. We had already seen our forward bookings absolutely collapsing. In every indicator that we had, people were not travelling with us; people had decided that Qantas was not going to be reliable. We had union leaders talking about a slow bake over a year. We had union leaders say, 'Do not book with Qantas over Christmas.' We had union leaders saying this could last into the middle or end of next year. So we knew we were losing our customers rapidly, and the $15 million a week that that was costing us meant we were at the verge of a huge crisis in Qantas. We were at a crisis in Qantas and we needed to do something.



The only alternative that was left to me was to bring this to a head, to say, 'We cannot last another year.' Therefore the decision was made that we would take, as a consequence of the union action, a lockout of the employees—and it was only the employees that were taking the action and covered by those agreements. We had made it very clear to the rest of the employees that we were going to continue to pay their salaries. We felt that was the only viable way that we could get an agreement that was not going to endanger the future survival of the company.

He wanted to bring it to a head then, now he wants to drag it out. How have forward bookings been since the fear campaign started in early December 2013?

Every step along the way has been about destroying the mainline airline, not preserving it. Each time a plausible narrative has been used as justification for actions taken by management. However, later in near identical circumstances, those actions ARE NOT taken, and the previous plausible narratives are simply forgotten.

All most everyone has been played, the shareholders, customers, employees, media and the government.

[apple juice]

email to various politicians

Why are you "withholding" your name on the proposed email? If you really believe the allegations you have set out in the email surely you should sign it and identify your position. Otherwise the people to whom it is addressed and PRRUNE readers will come to the conclusion that this is nothing more than a campaign by the ALAEA and its allies and not one generally supported by Qantas employees

[V-Jet]

BG apple juice.

This is not a time for playing stupid games. I'm sorry, but I'm not alone in being absolutely at the end of my tether with the garbage we have been fed as QF employees for the last 10 years. If you don't understand what is being said here then accept QF employees are incredibly dedicated bunch and care deeply about the company and both it and our future.

AJ/Clifford under any circumstances are not compatible with any QF future. They've had ten years, and gone from one cataclysmic disaster to yet another and another and another. And we are the ones who will be paying - they certainly won't. It's OUR company.

[-438]

And to add to VJet's comments if I may.

All Qantas employees want is a leader we can follow.

I am positive that with the correct leadership in place $2 billion in cost savings could be achieved whilst improving the future viability of Qantas.

A massive saving alone could be made by cutting contracts with the leeches that are consulting to Qantas. Their only purpose is to extract as much money from Qantas as possible.
A competent management team would not require their 'services'.

It has been stated 1000 times, but Qantas has the wrong fleet.
When fuel is > 35% of your cost base, only incompetent management would choose to operate the current fleet.

Qantas employees care deeply about Qantas.

[The Green Goblin]

Jetstar captains offered leave with out pay today and work for parc aviation with guaranteed right of return.

[bmam7]

apple juice

I doubt if gordon****ramsay sent the email with "name withheld" as part of it. I obviously wouldn't know but I imagine he/she (sorry, but remember I'm new here ) would have "signed" it. I read the post as an excellent email to be sent to the various parties but, for obvious reasons, he/she is not going to post their actual name here.

Sadly, it will elicit an automated response from the relevant office and more than likely not even be brought to the real recipient's attention.

As an ex-public servant, my experience was that a letter to the Minister has to generate a "ministerial" response but this could also simply be a "form" letter. A face-to-face is the best way, except they are all in Canberra now with Parliament sitting. Certainly a good thing to do at the earliest opportunity.

[Toruk Macto]

So now Q management can say no jobs at J* tomorrow . Feels like a setup to me .

[Lookleft]

But they have only been offered LWOP to work for Air Arabia! I wonder what response you would get if it was for a China Southern contract?

To all the Qantas staff, keep an eye on each other and stay in touch with those you know. The only other advise I can offer is don't read the papers, it just does your head in. So does reading Pprune, you just lurch from one tidbit of information to the next.

[TIMA9X]

Qantas employees care deeply about Qantas

well said, it's always been in the culture that "you know who" is trying to destroy..

Interesting snip from the Rex boss, a warm up for tonight



.

[bmam7]

V-Jet and -438

In my first post I explained that I had no connection with aviation except as a passenger. I've flown QF internationally and domestically for many, many years and have always enjoyed the experience. I'm usually up the back end but I find the cabin crew very pleasant and helpful, even when rushed on short hops.

Even as a passenger, and reader of aviation blogs and articles, it has been obvious to me just where these corporate, bean counting have been taking the company and I have had several fascinating chats with cabin crew about where it might all end up; and this was years ago even before a certain CEO took command.

I have nothing but admiration for the flight crew and always make a point of saying thank you as I leave the aircraft - sometimes the Captain or FO is standing there - I did say I was usually up the back so by the time everyone struggles with every item of luggage they can manage to squeeze into the overhead locker, including the kitchen sink, all the crew are in a position to leave the aircraft by the time I get to the front

Thank you for the great job you have all done under intolerable circumstances and I really hope tomorrow's news is better than we can imagine.