QF Shares hit $1.00 Discuss
QF Shares hit $1.00 Discuss
So the CEO of Jet Star has killed one of the largest airlines in the world.
Simple -- TIME FOR A NEW CEO.
No amount of waffle and blaming markets can cloud how low he has taken it. It is time for a new captain of the ship.
Nobody else has achieved this milestone, but the current CEO has.
Businesses respond to the person who is the leader.
Virgin is going great guns
Air Asia is going great guns
Garuda Indonesia is going great guns
Etihad is going great guns
Singapore Airlines is going great guns
Qantas is dying.
Dying and charging more than all of the great guns winners, losing it's clients at the same time.
It's easy -- the person at the top has no clue much to the enjoyment of all the airlines around it. There is no possibility to complain how difficult market conditions are when all of these great guns airlines are growing at the expense of Qantas market share.
WHY IS QANTAS LOOSING MARKET SHARE???
BECAUSE THE CEO IS DOING A BAD JOB.
SIMPLE.
It's not too late for a new and smart AUSTRALIAN CEO to save qantas from falling from a share price of ZERO like ONE.TEL.
Oh the Qnatas board also has a ONE.TEL board member on it ....... OOPS.....
BYE BYE Qantas......
I am very sad to see the death of an Australian icon lead by such incompetence from a person who isn't even an Australian who will return to his economically demolished country a rich man having sucked the life out of one of the biggest businesses in one of the strongest remaining economies in the world. He won't care what he has done, he will just be permanently RICH.
I am sorry for all who will loose their jobs, and for my Australian patriotism meaning so little for an Australian institution built on the Australian pioneering spirit.
5 years ago there was no other airline in the world I would choose to fly and now I don't even open their web page no matter where I am flying to.
There was no way I would be singing the praises of Virgin, and now I do.
5 years ago there was no way I would fly Air Asia and now if Virgin doesn't fly there I go straight to the Air Asia web site.
I am sorry Qantas, and Qantas share holders, and Qantas staff......your captain is driving the ship fast toward an island and he will be the first to jump as soon as he can and put his hands in the air and blame everyone else but himself.
Qantas isn't inherently a bad airline, it's just currently reflecting the nature of the person at the top of it's hierarchy, like any other business. Whether it will survive longer than the person at the top is anyone's guess. I bet my guess is obvious........it won't.
Simple -- TIME FOR A NEW CEO.
No amount of waffle and blaming markets can cloud how low he has taken it. It is time for a new captain of the ship.
Nobody else has achieved this milestone, but the current CEO has.
Businesses respond to the person who is the leader.
Virgin is going great guns
Air Asia is going great guns
Garuda Indonesia is going great guns
Etihad is going great guns
Singapore Airlines is going great guns
Qantas is dying.
Dying and charging more than all of the great guns winners, losing it's clients at the same time.
It's easy -- the person at the top has no clue much to the enjoyment of all the airlines around it. There is no possibility to complain how difficult market conditions are when all of these great guns airlines are growing at the expense of Qantas market share.
WHY IS QANTAS LOOSING MARKET SHARE???
BECAUSE THE CEO IS DOING A BAD JOB.
SIMPLE.
It's not too late for a new and smart AUSTRALIAN CEO to save qantas from falling from a share price of ZERO like ONE.TEL.
Oh the Qnatas board also has a ONE.TEL board member on it ....... OOPS.....
BYE BYE Qantas......
I am very sad to see the death of an Australian icon lead by such incompetence from a person who isn't even an Australian who will return to his economically demolished country a rich man having sucked the life out of one of the biggest businesses in one of the strongest remaining economies in the world. He won't care what he has done, he will just be permanently RICH.
I am sorry for all who will loose their jobs, and for my Australian patriotism meaning so little for an Australian institution built on the Australian pioneering spirit.
5 years ago there was no other airline in the world I would choose to fly and now I don't even open their web page no matter where I am flying to.
There was no way I would be singing the praises of Virgin, and now I do.
5 years ago there was no way I would fly Air Asia and now if Virgin doesn't fly there I go straight to the Air Asia web site.
I am sorry Qantas, and Qantas share holders, and Qantas staff......your captain is driving the ship fast toward an island and he will be the first to jump as soon as he can and put his hands in the air and blame everyone else but himself.
Qantas isn't inherently a bad airline, it's just currently reflecting the nature of the person at the top of it's hierarchy, like any other business. Whether it will survive longer than the person at the top is anyone's guess. I bet my guess is obvious........it won't.
Last edited by arkmark; 9th Jun 2012 at 15:54. Reason: I was DYING from LOSING Spelling Errors !!
Nunc est bibendum
I'm no fan of Joyce but....
I am very sad to see the death of an Australian icon lead by such incompetence from a person who isn't even an Australian....
Are they really $1 now ? 
EDIT after I found the answer: QAN.AX Historical Prices | QANTAS FPO Stock - Yahoo!7 Finance
EDIT after I found the answer: QAN.AX Historical Prices | QANTAS FPO Stock - Yahoo!7 Finance
Last edited by Ejector; 9th Jun 2012 at 14:52.
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QF only really exists to fly the old empire routes. The domestic operations are just loss leading historic commitments. The lack of work ethic in the local workforce will surly mean that SEA and ME carries will eventually crush QFs profit on long haul.
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The writing is certainly on the wall
Trouble on a crowded dance floor
Trouble on a crowded dance floor
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ArkMark
Just changing the CEO won't fix Qantas. It needs good cashflow to keep paying for the dugongs and 787's. At the moment its a Legacy airline, with a Legacy cost base. Until the cost base is lowered no number of new CEO's will fix things.
PanAm was an icon, and it has gone. If people don't embrace change, QF will follow PanAm.
Just changing the CEO won't fix Qantas. It needs good cashflow to keep paying for the dugongs and 787's. At the moment its a Legacy airline, with a Legacy cost base. Until the cost base is lowered no number of new CEO's will fix things.
PanAm was an icon, and it has gone. If people don't embrace change, QF will follow PanAm.
So Joyce Says:
But what about the brand? ''The brand has returned to pre-dispute/fleet grounding levels after only six months,'' he said.
Let me tell you Mr Joyce, that I haven't flown Qantas since the day you grounded the airline. I changed to Virgin who gave me a GREAT CORPORATE DEAL.
The brand has never returned for me and frankly it never even tried. My costs were refunded after 4 MONTHS of me calling till I was blue in the face and my BUSINESS CLASS tickets were subsequently replaced by ECONOMY CLASS SUBLOAD credits !!!!!!!
Only a COMPLETE FOOL would do that crap, and then have the balls to tell the market it was all fixed up.
When I left Qantas for Virgin as a medium sized business, Qantas didn't even notice that I let go all of my work with them, as well as my long standing QF Club membership. They didn't even call, or write or care.
DEAR QANTAS -- YOU NEED A NEW CEO.
I rate it as the best thing for poor long suffering Australian travelers that other options that are better than Qantas are now becoming available to us.
OH and another last straw for me was the Qantas automated check in. WOW, what a DISASTER !!!!!
But what about the brand? ''The brand has returned to pre-dispute/fleet grounding levels after only six months,'' he said.
Let me tell you Mr Joyce, that I haven't flown Qantas since the day you grounded the airline. I changed to Virgin who gave me a GREAT CORPORATE DEAL.
The brand has never returned for me and frankly it never even tried. My costs were refunded after 4 MONTHS of me calling till I was blue in the face and my BUSINESS CLASS tickets were subsequently replaced by ECONOMY CLASS SUBLOAD credits !!!!!!!
Only a COMPLETE FOOL would do that crap, and then have the balls to tell the market it was all fixed up.
When I left Qantas for Virgin as a medium sized business, Qantas didn't even notice that I let go all of my work with them, as well as my long standing QF Club membership. They didn't even call, or write or care.
DEAR QANTAS -- YOU NEED A NEW CEO.
I rate it as the best thing for poor long suffering Australian travelers that other options that are better than Qantas are now becoming available to us.
OH and another last straw for me was the Qantas automated check in. WOW, what a DISASTER !!!!!
So WHO let it get this far and WHO didn't stop it ?
There is only one and it's the CEO.
It may well be too late for Qantas, you are right. You can't tell me this wasn't evident 4 - 5 years ago. To me it was.
Joyce has just been riding it out destroying the brand, which perhaps was his strategy all along to prove that his beloved Jet Star model was a picture of perfection even though they were hiding it's true capital costs in the Qantas operation.
Eventually it all had to not work.
When your cleaners are using bottled water every night from the galleys to clean the toilets because management would not provide them with any other alternative you can be sure it's just not going to survive !!!!!!!
A CEO with half an idea about his business would have heard about that one before it was publicised on PPRUNE !!!!!!!
There is only one and it's the CEO.
It may well be too late for Qantas, you are right. You can't tell me this wasn't evident 4 - 5 years ago. To me it was.
Joyce has just been riding it out destroying the brand, which perhaps was his strategy all along to prove that his beloved Jet Star model was a picture of perfection even though they were hiding it's true capital costs in the Qantas operation.
Eventually it all had to not work.
When your cleaners are using bottled water every night from the galleys to clean the toilets because management would not provide them with any other alternative you can be sure it's just not going to survive !!!!!!!
A CEO with half an idea about his business would have heard about that one before it was publicised on PPRUNE !!!!!!!
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"The lack of work ethic in the local workforce will surly mean that SEA and ME carries will eventually crush QFs profit on long haul."
And who nurtured that? High Fuel? Trouble in Europe? Clifford Joyce & Dixon? Couldn't possibly be them. And as for Brand, I used to listen to a radio program called the 'Hidden Persuaders'
Hidden Persuaders - ABC Queensland - Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)
Allan Bonsall was scathing of Dixon's trashing of Brand QANTAS
And who nurtured that? High Fuel? Trouble in Europe? Clifford Joyce & Dixon? Couldn't possibly be them. And as for Brand, I used to listen to a radio program called the 'Hidden Persuaders'
Hidden Persuaders - ABC Queensland - Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)
Allan Bonsall was scathing of Dixon's trashing of Brand QANTAS
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The only thing going for QF staff at the moment is there no way the govt. can allow 36,000 people lose their jobs, no way, regardless if its the Droner from Altona or the Mad Monk, in the LH seat. That is what you have to cling on to, the only way they can do that is let the whole thing die slowly in a heap, as it becomes JQ, over a period of time. They cannot just hang a closed down sign up at the jet base, that at least gives you time to plan your own future, to sure up your finances, and plan ahead, and with a little bit of luck, a CEO will be found (Ralph Norris are you out there?) who could just turn the whole box and dice around. A worrying time for all QF staff.
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Teresa, so do you really think 36,000 highly paid QF staff couldn't be sacked? Should the Government cut the Health budget to support the Legacy staff and their work practices and payscales?
If Qantas staff don't look at what is happening industry wide, they will never understand the need to change.
Teresa, QF is going the way of PanAm.
If Qantas staff don't look at what is happening industry wide, they will never understand the need to change.
Teresa, QF is going the way of PanAm.
The biggest trouble with QF & mostly other industries that are fighting to survive in a global playing field is that they (QF for Eg) want to lower their operating costs in order to compete. They can't do a lot about fuel costs as that's an ever changing balance sheet on it's own.They still need new planes & they can't get them cheap.
BUT the element they can change or at least want to is lower the human element to all this. Lower wages,reduced services & off shore maint ('cause it's cheaper) making the employees in their eyes their only pawns.
BUT (& there's that word again!) it's all good & well from a CEO's perspective ('cause they don't live in the real world due wealth etc) to want to lower wages have less staff to do more work etc with those same employees living in that same world where EVERYTHING is going up (no thanks to 'Juliars' carbon crap) around them. Sure pay yr staff 20% less to line yr pockets & make you look good but whilst yr at it AJ tell the oil Co's, the food suppliers & general goods suppliers to lower their ticket prices ...................yeah didn't think so !
It's a bit like removing every second floor joist on a floor that supports a Co(yeah now there's a go, remove that other 'Joyce!
) as it's cheaper to do the same job with less 'joists' but one day that same floor will come crashing down due poor support,that we are seeing now. We have building regs to make sure our floors are built strong,what do we have in the commercial world 'floors'? Less & less infrastructure all in the name of top end greed & cost!
What do you do when the 'Joyces' are rotten? YOU REPLACE them!.....it's about to tumble into the Abyss !!
It's a flea bitten dog chasing it's own tail QF!!!!!!
Wmk2
BUT the element they can change or at least want to is lower the human element to all this. Lower wages,reduced services & off shore maint ('cause it's cheaper) making the employees in their eyes their only pawns.
BUT (& there's that word again!) it's all good & well from a CEO's perspective ('cause they don't live in the real world due wealth etc) to want to lower wages have less staff to do more work etc with those same employees living in that same world where EVERYTHING is going up (no thanks to 'Juliars' carbon crap) around them. Sure pay yr staff 20% less to line yr pockets & make you look good but whilst yr at it AJ tell the oil Co's, the food suppliers & general goods suppliers to lower their ticket prices ...................yeah didn't think so !
It's a bit like removing every second floor joist on a floor that supports a Co(yeah now there's a go, remove that other 'Joyce!
) as it's cheaper to do the same job with less 'joists' but one day that same floor will come crashing down due poor support,that we are seeing now. We have building regs to make sure our floors are built strong,what do we have in the commercial world 'floors'? Less & less infrastructure all in the name of top end greed & cost! What do you do when the 'Joyces' are rotten? YOU REPLACE them!.....it's about to tumble into the Abyss !!
It's a flea bitten dog chasing it's own tail QF!!!!!!
Wmk2
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To take the alternate view, I don't think Qantas has been hard enough!
No doubt that the carrier is in urgent need of reform, in all areas, even as far as EBAs are concerned.
It should be possible for the management to come up with a holistic approach to the problems that face Qantas, even if that means letting some staff go, withdrawing from / changing metal on routes that are borderline and streamlining head office.
It would be a lot of pain in the short-term, but for the chance of a strong Qantas in the middle to long-term which is what it seems most ordinary Australian's and Qantas staff want.
That said, the biggest problem is that none of the staff (and few of the actually interested public) would support such a plan with such a woeful board and the disastrous implementation of about every "plan" Joyce et al have had in the last few years. As if pilots, engineers and ground staff are going to talk wage freezes and CR with the bad blood this board has created.
Slash the company I say, get back to fundamentals and take a "nothing is for granted" look at the whole business and come up with a credible plan to bring Qantas back to strength. This under a new, visionary board and management who are in it for the long-haul along with the staff, not next years bonus.
Better to die trying than bleeding out via the million cuts the business is labouring under now.
No doubt that the carrier is in urgent need of reform, in all areas, even as far as EBAs are concerned.
It should be possible for the management to come up with a holistic approach to the problems that face Qantas, even if that means letting some staff go, withdrawing from / changing metal on routes that are borderline and streamlining head office.
It would be a lot of pain in the short-term, but for the chance of a strong Qantas in the middle to long-term which is what it seems most ordinary Australian's and Qantas staff want.
That said, the biggest problem is that none of the staff (and few of the actually interested public) would support such a plan with such a woeful board and the disastrous implementation of about every "plan" Joyce et al have had in the last few years. As if pilots, engineers and ground staff are going to talk wage freezes and CR with the bad blood this board has created.
Slash the company I say, get back to fundamentals and take a "nothing is for granted" look at the whole business and come up with a credible plan to bring Qantas back to strength. This under a new, visionary board and management who are in it for the long-haul along with the staff, not next years bonus.
Better to die trying than bleeding out via the million cuts the business is labouring under now.
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Wally, if you don't follow the industry norm you will fail.
The only way QF can win is to make its costs lower, AND increase its yield.
Without doing those things, the wishful thinkers here will never get their B777's.
The only way QF can win is to make its costs lower, AND increase its yield.
Without doing those things, the wishful thinkers here will never get their B777's.
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Tallest Poppy, the big problem between staff and management is the yawning credibility gap and the complete lack of trust that the staff have in people like Joyce.
Joyce could tell me that he was of Irish descent and right now, I wouldn't believe him without supporting documentation.
This washes down the line. Pilots I fly with tell me that they delete messages from flight ops management without reading them. The total, complete lack of trust is something that needs to be addressed right now. Qantas does need to go through changes but the basic wage structure that delivered a one billion dollar profit in 2008 is still there, so what has changed and who is to blame?
Reduced network-Management.
Incompetence at highest levels, Red Q and Jetstar(name your franchise, but particularly Vietnam and Hong Kong)-Management
Disengaged front line workers- Management
Gas guzzling A380's instead of B777's- Management
Five year delay on 787- choice to go with untried and unproven technology-Management
Jetstar International- Low yielding, poor load factor, unloved bastard child with zero actual international growth in the last two years; (More to come on that later)-Management.
So you tell me... what really needs to change at Qantas?
Joyce could tell me that he was of Irish descent and right now, I wouldn't believe him without supporting documentation.
This washes down the line. Pilots I fly with tell me that they delete messages from flight ops management without reading them. The total, complete lack of trust is something that needs to be addressed right now. Qantas does need to go through changes but the basic wage structure that delivered a one billion dollar profit in 2008 is still there, so what has changed and who is to blame?
Reduced network-Management.
Incompetence at highest levels, Red Q and Jetstar(name your franchise, but particularly Vietnam and Hong Kong)-Management
Disengaged front line workers- Management
Gas guzzling A380's instead of B777's- Management
Five year delay on 787- choice to go with untried and unproven technology-Management
Jetstar International- Low yielding, poor load factor, unloved bastard child with zero actual international growth in the last two years; (More to come on that later)-Management.
So you tell me... what really needs to change at Qantas?