Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

[Lookleft]

For a start, the revelation that ATSB passes identifying information to CASA
immediately terminates its usefulness since nobody in their right mind will now report anything that they can successfully conceal.

Its interesting that further back a post by SUIYA highlighting that part of the Senate Hearing was not picked up the usual posters. As Sunny has again highlighted the ATSB has not only trashed its reputation with the Norfolk report but it has shredded its credibility with the admission that information passed to CASA can identify the pilot.

[Kharon]

LL# 616 - Its interesting that further back a post by SUIYA highlighting that part of the Senate Hearing was not picked up the usual posters.

Correct LL, not ignored; just saving it for a rainy day; it is apparently one of Sen X. pet hobby horses. Reason I let it slide was it's quite a debate and has been done on PPRune before, without much dialogue I might add. The 'signed confession' is problematic, and relates back to much hated Miller Report, the MPU, the concept of Safety Management Systems and the fact that CASA admits they are now providing written instructions to operators to c.c CASA with all reports required to be sent to the ATSB. It's a crock.

But it figures fairly low on the totem pole (topical) as far as 'crimes against the industry' figure in light of this mess.

1) Essential safety information related to (approved) ditching protocol and CRM were sat on for better than two years.

2) Important 'eye witness' information related to live jacket (vest) operation has been suppressed for a similar period of time. This information alone should trigger a rethink and possibly a rewrite of Operations Manual' sections which deal with these issues. Maybe a refit of the equipment as maintenance falls due, to include a LED strobe, 121.5 mini transmitter, sensible attachment for whistles and a spray hood. Perhaps even go whole hog and make sure that once the "vest is donned" the bloody thing stays "donned".

3) CASA influenced and tried to pervert this and other essential information, then tried to wriggle out from under.

4) The ATSB has either been rogered and left holding the baby; or, it was complicit in the cover up.

Either way, credibility zero. In the AAT, Court or Coroner, the probity of evidence and the technical expertise relied on by the body hearing the matter must be beyond reasonable doubt. No one believing the rubbish provided in the report and later in the Senate can rely on ATSB or CASA 'evidence' to arrive at a 'safe' judgement.

Yes Minnie dear, directly: I know what the time is. (Strewth).

[blackhand]

Maybe a refit of the equipment as maintenance falls due, to include a LED strobe, 121.5 mini transmitter, sensible attachment for whistles and a spray hood.

Kharon, this is starting to sound like a survival vest. The price for standard RFDs or EADs TSO'd lifejacket is about $200 - give or take.
Imagine the cost for implementation on a 380 if additional equipment was added.

[Frank Arouet]

The 121.5 Mhz homing device must be cheap because when the 406Mhz came legal we were all told to toss them as they are no longer "legal".

The fact that 121.5 Mhz is the International Distress frequency and all 406 beacons have a 121.5 homing frequency would appear to make chucking them out a waste of good money. My money included.

I bet Dick could get a Chinaman to build them for under a dollar?

He could also probably incorporate an electronic shark repellent device. I hear they work.

[gobbledock]

LBH/GD Bipolar Brave who's other name is Two Heads Talking

Yes I am caught, what can I say. I am also Kharon, all the MODS, SARCS, Ponypoo, Sunfish and halfmanhalfbiscuit! Actually maybe I do have Bipolar as those who suffer that illness often have grandiose visions and ideas, and I have had grandiose visions, ideas and fantasies about an ailing aviation industry turning a corner and becoming safe, reputable and honestly governed!!
Blackhand you have done it again, you have solved another robust riddle. Your skills would be much venerated at the ATSB, go and get your CV ready as Beaker will be vacating the big chair in the not so distant future, so quickly now, run away please!

Back to the real issue. As has been pointed out, CASA ask (but cannot force) Industry to CC them in on reports sent to the ATSB. That is because CASA has lost the trust of industry. The ATSB have been 'sectioning' people more and more because CASA only want to punish you. So by being sectioned by the ATSB you can sing to your heart is content without having to discuss the matter with the bullies at Fort Fumble. CASA don't like this however. But it goes to show the lack of trust between the ATSB and CASA, it is not improving.
For the record, CASA has been a conglomerate of pony pooh for decades now, however the ATSB was a stellar outfit filled with excellent investigators, half decent management and had earned a pretty good reputation around the traps. However from the time that Bureaucrat Beaker took over the reigns and turned a fairly honest straight shooting organisation into a number crunching, spin wielding personal bodyguard for The Minister For Mascot the reputation and strength of the organisation has turned into complete ****e, and very quickly. The Directors, Boards, Government and Minister of the day should be hung out to dry for what they have turned these departments in to.

[gobbledock]

From Paul's article:

CASA chief John McCormick told the recent Senate hearing: “What I found when I got to CASA, as I think we have discussed before, is that there was a significant lack of direction, and perhaps some of the things that we see and we are here discussing may be direct outcomes of some of that lack of direction and focus.”

That's because there are 20+ year veterans of the CASA system hiding within the framework. Long term bureaucrats mismanaging, misinforming and misdirecting. Add to the mix The Board, and you soon see that any Director at CASA is nothing more than a pussy whipped footstool for the Ministers protectors. You actually can't blame the Skull for that as he doesn't have the power to change anything. His direction, activities and thoughts are controlled by puppet masters and he is a puppet, as were all the other Director/CEO's. Only when the politics and bureaucracy are removed from CASA, and the Directors balls are freed will you have a change come about.

Here's to waiting......

[PAIN_NET]

Poll results

G'day and thank you to participants from Belgium, China, Indonesia, Ireland, New Zealand, Qatar and the UAE.

0530 UTC results.

Q1) 92.7% Yes – 2.0% - Option – 5.3% No.

Q2) 96.7% Yes – 0.7% - Option- 2.6% No.

Q3) 77.5% Yes – 13.9% - Option – 8.6% No.

Q4) 74.3% Yes – 15.8% - Option – 9.9% No.

Q5) 83.6% Yes – 3.3% - Option – 13.2% No.

Tomorrow is the last day to poll, if you wish to join in.

We have isolated some fairly pathetic attempts to 'tweek' the results, we can adjust the data base to isolate those. So final results Friday afternoon 1645 ESST.

P6. (AKA Ping ping).

[Frank Arouet]

the Directors balls are freed will you have a change come about

I believe his nuts are already in a padlocked vice. He has a blunt knife and someone just lit the shed. Oh, and all the Lawyers are on the piss because this is happening after midday Friday, indeed about 4.59pm.

What should he do?

[Sunfish]

What should he do?

Resign to spend more time with his family.

When we end up with more smoking holes many of the threads on Pprune and Phelans articles are going to come back to haunt whoever is in the chair at the time.

The other way this may end is if ICAO or the FAA lowers the boom.

[gobbledock]

What should he do?

He could call a mechanic, maybe Blackhand? If that fails then he could try yelling and screaming in a fit of rage, then again that hasn't helped in the past 40 years!!

The other way this may end is if ICAO or the FAA lowers the boom.

ICAO won't do anything. They don't go after Western regulators. The FAA came within a hairs breadth of dropping the boom 3 years ago, but the spin doctors got to work and the FAA went away satisfied with the veneer of pooh they were handed.

Seems a smoking or hole or six is the only way that Aus aviation will change, pity it will take that. Or maybe the Voodoo Witchdoctor will do another stint in Montreal now that Ruddy has his glorious seat on the UN council? A plethora of robustness......

[blackhand]

ICAO won't do anything. They don't go after Western regulators. The FAA came within a hairs breadth of dropping the boom 3 years ago, but the spin doctors got to work and the FAA went away satisfied with the veneer of pooh they were handed.

OMG, Two Heads Talking, this really is a conspiracy of the highest order.
Let me guess, the Illuminati are behind it all.

[Sunfish]

Not illuminati, self serving bureaucrats of the quasi legal variety.

[Frank Arouet]

Chaps,

I should emphasise the shed is on fire, his nuts are in a vice that is padlocked and he only has a blunt knife!

What should he do?

BTW, is the plural of blackhand, The Blackhandi?

Obviously a "Thuggee"?

[aroa]

Which direction.....

Mc C rekons when he got there, there was a significant lack of direction.
There still is a significant lack of direction from CB.
From the Miniscule there is NO direction.
There is NO direction of oversight from DoTR. CASA is an agency that has been cast adrift to find its own direction, of which it lacks.
In the regions we have AWIs and FOI all going off in their OWN directions... the rules according to "me"/ my interp and spleen of the day.

I am satisfied as a reasonable person that McC, (and he has demonstrated to me), that he is "not a fit and proper" person for the job.
Leadership with a very BIG capital L is required. No ?

Its an outfit thats allowed to behave like herd of cats that have been lapping the plonk, p*ssed and going everywhich way.!
Might I sugest a direction. The direction of away.
Wait not upon the manner of your going, but go at once. WS

And as for the rest of the quasi-legal cattery the direction should be DOWN ... as in PUT DOWN and out of our misery. CLOSED.

[gobbledock]

OMG, Two Heads Talking, this really is a conspiracy of the highest order.

Sorry Blackhandi, the Illuminati aren't interested in aviation safety, JMac, your postie bikes or the type of sorcery that your region has come to rely upon unsuccessfully!
No, no conspiracy's here, time to move on, nothing left to see. I would be happy however to provide you with the contact details for CASA Canberra's witch doctor if you would like to book him in for a special guest appearance at the CAA? Maybe he could do a duet presentation with ex CASA come CAA big hitter Sargent Shultz up there?

[Frank Arouet]

Whatever happened to Colonel Klink, (Crint or some other such spelling)?

He would know where Sgt Schultz is.

[Kharon]

Works for me.

Plane Talking – Ben Sandilands.

Grab a brew and have a read:- Bloody mainstream media, if it's not green , dead bodies or some unfortunates tits it's just not worth the trouble. Good on ya Ben.

The US Federal Aviation Agency’s rehabilitation of Israel as a Level 1 state in relation to air safety ought to be read as the clearest of warnings to Australia to get its act together without delay.

If Australia is busted down to Level 2, which on the evidence, it should be, the consequences include the prohibition under US law of code shares between Australian flag carriers and those of America.

The managements of Qantas and Virgin Australia need to carefully consider what losing their respective code share deals with American Airlines and Delta would mean, and ask whether the craven acceptance of the dismal state of affairs in CASA, the ATSB and AirServices Australia is worth the damage such a downgrade would inflict on their shareholders, employees and commercial reputations.

There's a lot more in the article, well worth a couple of minutes.

[neville_nobody]

Not illuminati, self serving bureaucrats of the quasi legal variety.

Unless of course there is a movement from the 'powers that be' to try and destroy aviation and that the bureaucrats are just fulfilling their masters orders.

You could argue that CASA are doing everything in its powers to make aviation as difficult and expensive as possible. And the top civil servants at CASA never move on. It's been the same clowns for the last 10+ years.

Interesting quote from Ben's article:

They are conveniently ignored in the general media and public life. The inconvenience that will arise without determined and urgent corrective action cannot be understated.

Why would a government do this? Why does CASA have so much pull?

Ever wondered why curfews in this country never apply to Bizjets yet RPT are dealt with so harshly?

And what right do the FAA have to start blackballing people when they aren't even ICAO compliant themselves?

[Sunfish]

The problem Neville is that Aviation in Australia is a very small pond. There is effectively only one international airline, Two domestic airlines and that is it.

If you leave an airline, who are you going to work for? CASA, AsA or ATSB and that is it. You will be regulating people you know or who know you. Same as with the RAAF.

The same problem is true for engineers, pilots, cabin crew even accountants.

On that subject I have already commented on the complete lack of any independent forensic aviation accounting expertise in Australia. What independent aviation accountant is going to lower the boom on Qantas or CASA? They would simply find themselves blacklisted in a very small industry.

Likewise the public servants in DOT, do you really want to piss off QANTAS when the Minister is a member of the Chairmans lounge?

Do you really want to piss of CASA who also has the ministers ear, and can blind him with technical bull**** and refute any argument you make at a moments notice?

The pool of talent is too small. Everyone knows everyone. More importantly everyone depends on others for their next job, so nobody will rock the boat.

The only hope is for a "courageous" Minister in the true Sir Humphrey sense, who will take an axe to the institutions, perhaps with the assistance of Professor Alan Fels, and separate regulation from enforcement, eviscerate the office of legal services, require the institutions to promote the industry and generally become part of the solution instead of being the problem.

Sadly, this isn't going to happen. At one time I thought a strike by GA might do it, but I now think, after the attempted crucifiction of James and the resurrection of PelAir, that it will require Three smoking holes and perhaps Three hundred dead before any government will be galvanized into action.


To put it another way, the CASA Leopard is not going to change its spots and all you goddamned uncaught aviation criminals can moan all you like.

[Stan van de Wiel]

Apathy or Fear

The pool of talent is too small. Everyone knows everyone. More importantly everyone depends on others for their next job, so nobody will rock the boat.

Talent - a special aptitude or faculty (to do right or wrong) although some of the observed and experienced wrongdoing is talented, little of it will stand up to scrutiny. I don't believe that any talent has floated to the top, BUT SOMETHING SURE HAS! We should refer to the PAN PHARMA vs TGA action of the past 9 years to see where an industry action should go. This is not just a company singled out, but the whole of the G.A. industry

Arrogant female bureaucrats cost the taxpayer another $67m
By JR on Saturday, March 26, 2011

They thought that they could get away with destroying hundreds of businesses and creating huge financial losses on the basis of mere speculation: One of the grosser examples of bureaucratic irresponsibility and abuse of power. They are all the more hateful because they paid $120 million years ago to the "big" guy whom they hurt but thought that they could stiff all the the little guys by insisting on long drawn out and expensive court action. Luckily, a legal firm came to the rescue on a contingency basis. Their costs will be a pretty penny too.

I have commented on the scum previously. Note that I am no fan of "alternative" medicine. As you can see here I think that there is too much quackery even in conventional medicine. But my attachment to the importance of evidence is obviously not shared by the TGA and the bitches who seem to run it -- depite scrutiny of evidence being their brief

And the two devious feminazis at the heart of the TGA action -- Fiona Cumming and Rita Maclachlan -- are apparently still in their jobs! Their involvement in the destruction of records should in fact lead to criminal charges being laid against them

CUSTOMERS of Pan Pharmaceuticals who sued the Federal Government after the company was shut down have been awarded $67.5 million in compensation.

The settlement, approved by Federal Court Justice Flick today, was negotiated without admissions of wrongdoing by the Federal Government, said Andrew Thorpe, legal adviser to the class of 170 former customers of Pan whose businesses suffered losses as a result of the company's closure.

"However, it does end an eight-year saga that commenced on 28 April 2003, when the Government shut down Pan Pharmaceuticals without notice," he said outside court.

"On that day, hundreds of people lost their jobs, $350 million was wiped off the Sydney stock exchange and scores of business, customers and service providers of Pan were very badly affected."

In March 2003, the Government's Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) suspended Pan's licence after excessive amounts of some ingredients were allegedly found in its Travacalm tablets.

In 2008, the 170 sponsors, customers and creditors of Pan, as well as distributors and retailers of its products, filed the class action.

Pan Pharmaceuticals boss to get compo

[QUOTE]]The Therapeutic Goods Administration decision to "go for the jugular" and shut down Pan Pharmaceuticals has cost taxpayers another $67.5 million in a class action settlement, taking the amount of compensation paid by the taxpayer over the shutdown of Jim Selim's company to more than $120m. [/QUOTE- not to mention the legal costs.

As licence or certificate holders we have all been affected by this willful destruction of an industry. This would be a common action based on further information now being revealed by the Senate inquiry, most have been affected by similar discriminate actions. Or is it the fear of reprisal?