Renamed & Merged: Qantas Severe Engine Damage Over Indonesia
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Just posting to remind readers what sort of a management team we are dealing with here and where their priorities lie.
We (ALAEA) currently have 6 Qantas group LAMEs stood down from duty subject to a disciplinary investigation because they reported defects on aircraft in an area that they weren't asked to look. Relates to Dash 8 aircraft and the cockpit doors that coud be opened with paddle pop sticks.
Yes, yesterdays incident has nothing to do with cockpit doors but what kind of a message does it send to Engineers who can be disciplined for reporting aircraft defects if it was just something they happened to notice in the course of their duties.
I'm getting sick of this safety is our number one priority thing. I suspect the 380's have been grounded because they are still under warranty.
We (ALAEA) currently have 6 Qantas group LAMEs stood down from duty subject to a disciplinary investigation because they reported defects on aircraft in an area that they weren't asked to look. Relates to Dash 8 aircraft and the cockpit doors that coud be opened with paddle pop sticks.
Yes, yesterdays incident has nothing to do with cockpit doors but what kind of a message does it send to Engineers who can be disciplined for reporting aircraft defects if it was just something they happened to notice in the course of their duties.
I'm getting sick of this safety is our number one priority thing. I suspect the 380's have been grounded because they are still under warranty.
1. Can someone enlighten us as to what the alleged "CAT A engine overspeed" is on the RR engine, what caused it and how can it be carried on a MEL and how it can be rectified?
2. It is Fan blade failure that must be contained, usually by a bloody great band of Kevlar wound around the case in line with the blades.
There is no way in hell that a turbine disc failure can be contained. For this reason, turbine discs are made of the finest materials, using the best machining and inspection techniques known to the best engineers on this planet. The discs are on a "hard time" life basis and must be scrapped when out of cycles and/or hours. That is why a disk failure is a big deal.
I hope for the sake of the RR designers that it's a manufacturing defect.
I hope for the sake of the manufacturers it was a design defect.
I pray for the LAMES that it wasn't a maintenance defect. God help the poor bastard whose signature last appeared in the engine log.
3. If "The wiring was cut" was the reason No.1 engine couldn't be shut down, then considering that the engine has FADEC, are there duplicate wiring runs to it? Is the FADEC wiring anywhere near what was cut? How close was the aircraft to a double engine shut down on one wing?
As for Qantas, I think the depth of their concern would have been for the the dollar cost of Three hours of fuel and engine charges incurred by No. 1 engine when it wouldn't stop.
2. It is Fan blade failure that must be contained, usually by a bloody great band of Kevlar wound around the case in line with the blades.
There is no way in hell that a turbine disc failure can be contained. For this reason, turbine discs are made of the finest materials, using the best machining and inspection techniques known to the best engineers on this planet. The discs are on a "hard time" life basis and must be scrapped when out of cycles and/or hours. That is why a disk failure is a big deal.
I hope for the sake of the RR designers that it's a manufacturing defect.
I hope for the sake of the manufacturers it was a design defect.
I pray for the LAMES that it wasn't a maintenance defect. God help the poor bastard whose signature last appeared in the engine log.
3. If "The wiring was cut" was the reason No.1 engine couldn't be shut down, then considering that the engine has FADEC, are there duplicate wiring runs to it? Is the FADEC wiring anywhere near what was cut? How close was the aircraft to a double engine shut down on one wing?
As for Qantas, I think the depth of their concern would have been for the the dollar cost of Three hours of fuel and engine charges incurred by No. 1 engine when it wouldn't stop.
Last edited by Sunfish; 4th Nov 2010 at 20:07.
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Sorry Sunfish had not read your post. Just repeated it. Well done tech and cabin crew. (Hope they don't put that Capt. thru another check! I would have passed him!)
ALEA Fed. Sec.:
...So if a LAME is working away at some hydraulics, and notices that One or Two fuselage frames appear to be cracked and a pressurization valve is black and smoking and he decided to follow QF's instructions and ignore it?
What would CASA make of that? Obviously the manager who penalised LAMES for reporting defects outside their direct work sheet requirements, thus setting up a culture of deliberate ignorance would be held blameless by CASA.
What would CASA do:
(a) If it was a Qantas LAME?
(b) If it was a GA LAME working for a Charter operator?
Will Qantas get the CASA letter at 4.30pm on a Friday night, suspending its AOC, like a charter operator?
..Or will their be unctuous Tut tutting by CASA about how this incident is perfectly understandable.
Does anyone else see the slow march to death and destruction caused by a combination of toxic corporate culture and toxic regulatory culture?
Then, isn't QF angling to reduce the pay and experience levels required of its pilots? What happens if a similar incident happens with a 1500 hour Twenty something in the left seat and a 300 hour Twenty something in the right seat?
Just posting to remind readers what sort of a management team we are dealing with here and where their priorities lie.
We (ALAEA) currently have 6 Qantas group LAMEs stood down from duty subject to a disciplinary investigation because they reported defects on aircraft in an area that they weren't asked to look. Relates to Dash 8 aircraft and the cockpit doors that coud be opened with paddle pop sticks.
Yes, yesterdays incident has nothing to do with cockpit doors but what kind of a message does it send to Engineers who can be disciplined for reporting aircraft defects if it was just something they happened to notice in the course of their duties.
I'm getting sick of this safety is our number one priority thing. I suspect the 380's have been grounded because they are still under warranty.
We (ALAEA) currently have 6 Qantas group LAMEs stood down from duty subject to a disciplinary investigation because they reported defects on aircraft in an area that they weren't asked to look. Relates to Dash 8 aircraft and the cockpit doors that coud be opened with paddle pop sticks.
Yes, yesterdays incident has nothing to do with cockpit doors but what kind of a message does it send to Engineers who can be disciplined for reporting aircraft defects if it was just something they happened to notice in the course of their duties.
I'm getting sick of this safety is our number one priority thing. I suspect the 380's have been grounded because they are still under warranty.
...So if a LAME is working away at some hydraulics, and notices that One or Two fuselage frames appear to be cracked and a pressurization valve is black and smoking and he decided to follow QF's instructions and ignore it?
What would CASA make of that? Obviously the manager who penalised LAMES for reporting defects outside their direct work sheet requirements, thus setting up a culture of deliberate ignorance would be held blameless by CASA.
What would CASA do:
(a) If it was a Qantas LAME?
(b) If it was a GA LAME working for a Charter operator?
Will Qantas get the CASA letter at 4.30pm on a Friday night, suspending its AOC, like a charter operator?
..Or will their be unctuous Tut tutting by CASA about how this incident is perfectly understandable.
Does anyone else see the slow march to death and destruction caused by a combination of toxic corporate culture and toxic regulatory culture?
Then, isn't QF angling to reduce the pay and experience levels required of its pilots? What happens if a similar incident happens with a 1500 hour Twenty something in the left seat and a 300 hour Twenty something in the right seat?
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This incident is a timely reminder of the environment we work in and how quickly it go pear shaped.
Well done to the crew and again it shows the benefit of training and experience.
I heard on the TV (yes I know to be taken with a grain of salt) that the aircraft dumped it's fuel.
I had heard the 380 cannot dump it's fuel!
Is that true?
Also it's a miracle that no one on the ground was hurt by the debris.
Well done to the crew and again it shows the benefit of training and experience.
I heard on the TV (yes I know to be taken with a grain of salt) that the aircraft dumped it's fuel.
I had heard the 380 cannot dump it's fuel!
Is that true?
Also it's a miracle that no one on the ground was hurt by the debris.
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A380 can dump fuel. A330's not.
Airbus CAT A MEL's mandate that each CAT A item has it's own particular repair date according to requirements of the fault. Anyone know what the repair interval was in this case?
Airbus CAT A MEL's mandate that each CAT A item has it's own particular repair date according to requirements of the fault. Anyone know what the repair interval was in this case?
In-flight video from pax, courtesy the guardian paper (UK)
Video: Qantas A380 engine failure filmed by passenger | Business | guardian.co.uk
Nice reassuring pa from the crew.
Video: Qantas A380 engine failure filmed by passenger | Business | guardian.co.uk
Nice reassuring pa from the crew.
Re; the MEL (if true). How could that NOT be negligence, in light of what transpired? Lawyerfest......
A jet I have flown had two overspeed protection systems; one electric and one mechanical. Either would shut down the engine if the front end (N1) became disconnected from the back end (N2). The electric overspeed protection system was MEL-able. That may be the situation here.
On my current aircraft, a Cat A MEL has the time or cycle limit stated in the MEL text for the item. A Cat B MEL expires after 3 days, a Cat C MEL after 10 days and a Cat Z MEL expires at the next EBA negotiation finishes.
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They had five. Four man heavy crew plus a checkie. I believe it was a Route check for the Captain. Ex RAAF Caribou pilot. I believe he passed!
..and before anyone asks why a four man crew for a 7.5 hour sector, they operate the SO's to free up seats in the cabin.
..and before anyone asks why a four man crew for a 7.5 hour sector, they operate the SO's to free up seats in the cabin.
Well done to the crew for getting her back safely. Media reports out this morning quoting passengers saying that the pilots and cabin crew acted very professionally, kept a cool head and the passengers well informed. Well done!
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.and before anyone asks why a four man crew for a 7.5 hour sector, they operate the SO's to free up seats in the cabin.
It's where his experience as a future Captain (hopefully for his/her sake) starts as it certainly did in this case.
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Aircraft these days are designed to operate with two crew. The old "Three sets of eyes are better than two" argument died with the 767. Most of the aircraft you see operating around the world have two pilots, unless it is a long sector or a special arrangement like this.
Plus it is a cost.... and we all know airlines attitudes to costs don't we?!
Plus it is a cost.... and we all know airlines attitudes to costs don't we?!
They had five. Four man heavy crew plus a checkie. I believe it was a Route check for the Captain. Ex RAAF Caribou pilot. I believe he passed!
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Confirmed- #2 engine Intermediate Pressure Turbine IPT disk failed. Extensive damage to the #2 strut and wing panels will mean this a/c will be in SIN for some time. Minimum repair- replace both #1 and #2 engines, replace/repair #2 strut, wiring repairs, repair to damaged wing panels.