Renamed & Merged: Qantas Severe Engine Damage Over Indonesia
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I was told that the a/c involved was a write-off but QF chose to repair it rather than have it on record as a hull loss.
I gather its not done very often if at all but what is a whole new wing assembly worth plus installation compared to a replacement a/c less the spares value of what is left.
Airbus may find selling a new airframe and salvaging parts to be the most viable option
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ALL Care.......and NO responsibility
Got this fron the RR website.
It made me feel all warm and gooey inside reading that RR:
...."offers the opportunity to remove UNCERTAINTIES from engine management and provides financial CONFIDENCE from managing PREDICTABLE costs"
Oh right....it all makes perfect cents now
The Emergency Airworthiness Directive dated 10 November 2010 will have a huge impact upon the QF, SQ and LH A380 aircraft availability. Every engine will need an extended ground run within the next 10 flight cycles followed by the following:
1) An inspection of the LPT stage 1 blades and case drain.
2) An inspection of the HP/IP structure air buffer cavity and oil service tubes.
The interval between each engine check must not exceed 20 flight cycles. (The engine run is not counted)
If any discrepancy is found during the inspections further engine operation is prohibited. (Not even a ground run)
The down time for each aircraft will be significant and expensive. Some QF A380 flying will have to be removed from the schedule to allow for the grounded aircraft in SIN and allow time for the checks until new aircraft are delivered. (This assumes engines will be available for new production aircraft)
If any engine changes are required it will just add to the workload and reduce aircraft availability even more. I doubt if QF has sufficient qualified man power to perform the inspections for the current fleet.
As it appears the engines are only 'good' for 500 flight cycles due to spline wear and other conditions I can see further aircraft being grounded due to lack of engines.
1) An inspection of the LPT stage 1 blades and case drain.
2) An inspection of the HP/IP structure air buffer cavity and oil service tubes.
The interval between each engine check must not exceed 20 flight cycles. (The engine run is not counted)
If any discrepancy is found during the inspections further engine operation is prohibited. (Not even a ground run)
The down time for each aircraft will be significant and expensive. Some QF A380 flying will have to be removed from the schedule to allow for the grounded aircraft in SIN and allow time for the checks until new aircraft are delivered. (This assumes engines will be available for new production aircraft)
If any engine changes are required it will just add to the workload and reduce aircraft availability even more. I doubt if QF has sufficient qualified man power to perform the inspections for the current fleet.
As it appears the engines are only 'good' for 500 flight cycles due to spline wear and other conditions I can see further aircraft being grounded due to lack of engines.
I reakon the person at EK that chose the EA engines on the A380 probably just got a really big bonus for the decision they made !
Does anyone know why QF went with RRs on the A380 when the A330s and 744ERs went with GEs ? Why after such a long history with RB211s and a short one with the GEs on the ugly sisters pushed them back towards GE ?
Does anyone know why QF went with RRs on the A380 when the A330s and 744ERs went with GEs ? Why after such a long history with RB211s and a short one with the GEs on the ugly sisters pushed them back towards GE ?
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puff
I think the GE's on the 744 were all about thrust and the 744ER design.
Checks every 20 cycles, you would want to be doing them at Sydney and with a backup plan for when you find a dud. It cruels your fleet.
Maybe having spare engines and a spare A380 on the ground in Sydney being rotated in and out of service would be the only way to do it, having your schedule based on only 4 a/c available at best at any one time. Otherwise you could have more drama's scattered around the globe again.
Not exactly a smart and efficient way to operate
I think the GE's on the 744 were all about thrust and the 744ER design.
Checks every 20 cycles, you would want to be doing them at Sydney and with a backup plan for when you find a dud. It cruels your fleet.
Maybe having spare engines and a spare A380 on the ground in Sydney being rotated in and out of service would be the only way to do it, having your schedule based on only 4 a/c available at best at any one time. Otherwise you could have more drama's scattered around the globe again.
Not exactly a smart and efficient way to operate
Puff.
The Trent option on the A380 is cheaper than the Alliance option. The Trent is lighter and smaller; being the only A380 engine that can be carried on a B747F without the fan being removed.
I also believe QF were influenced by the SQ decision to go with the Trent 900 as QF were talking to SQ at one stage re A380 maintenance being done in SIN.
RR claim the Trent uses less fuel than the Alliance engine. EK claim the Alliance engine burns less fuel at M.85 than it does at M.83 and is performing well above expectations.
The RB211 is/was not an option on the QF B747-400ER
Ps. All the talk about the massive engines on the A380 is a bit of a joke. The GE90-115B available on the B777 is rated at 115,540 lbs thrust and has been pushed to around 128,000 lbs thrust on the test bed.
The Trent option on the A380 is cheaper than the Alliance option. The Trent is lighter and smaller; being the only A380 engine that can be carried on a B747F without the fan being removed.
I also believe QF were influenced by the SQ decision to go with the Trent 900 as QF were talking to SQ at one stage re A380 maintenance being done in SIN.
RR claim the Trent uses less fuel than the Alliance engine. EK claim the Alliance engine burns less fuel at M.85 than it does at M.83 and is performing well above expectations.
The RB211 is/was not an option on the QF B747-400ER
Ps. All the talk about the massive engines on the A380 is a bit of a joke. The GE90-115B available on the B777 is rated at 115,540 lbs thrust and has been pushed to around 128,000 lbs thrust on the test bed.
Last edited by B772; 11th Nov 2010 at 07:13.
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"I was told that the a/c involved was a write-off but QF chose to repair it rather than have it on record as a hull loss. That has been proven time and time again to be an OWT (old wives tale).
I gather its not done very often if at all ......"
Airbus recently condemned a nearly new A320 for stressing the pylon after heavy landing - not for the first time by this operator. The airline persuaded a repair scheme because a write-off would have an adverse affect on their insurance premiums.
I gather its not done very often if at all ......"
Airbus recently condemned a nearly new A320 for stressing the pylon after heavy landing - not for the first time by this operator. The airline persuaded a repair scheme because a write-off would have an adverse affect on their insurance premiums.
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I very much doubt that the RR powered 380s will fly again very soon.
This will very much test RR's mettle(no pun intended) and could very well send them to the wall. The British economy(and indeed the EU/USA), are basket cases and this is diabolical for RR.
Sounds like a design flaw with the Trent and/or the metal alloy used is not to the design criteria required.
QF and SQ are going to take them(RR) to the cleaners with this. Even though it appears not the fault of the carriers concerned, this is doing enormous damage to their brands.
This will very much test RR's mettle(no pun intended) and could very well send them to the wall. The British economy(and indeed the EU/USA), are basket cases and this is diabolical for RR.
Sounds like a design flaw with the Trent and/or the metal alloy used is not to the design criteria required.
QF and SQ are going to take them(RR) to the cleaners with this. Even though it appears not the fault of the carriers concerned, this is doing enormous damage to their brands.
Last edited by Normasars; 11th Nov 2010 at 08:11.
Normasars
The development costs of the RB211-22B for the L1011 Tristar forced RR into bankrupcy in 1971 and nationalisation by the British Government. As a result the L1011 Tristar was late in the market place and never realised its full potential. The planned twin engine L1011 did not proceed and the the A300 was born.
Airbus are 'lucky' they can offer the Alliance engine as an option on the A380 as it appears the Trent 900 problems will take some time to solve.
The development costs of the RB211-22B for the L1011 Tristar forced RR into bankrupcy in 1971 and nationalisation by the British Government. As a result the L1011 Tristar was late in the market place and never realised its full potential. The planned twin engine L1011 did not proceed and the the A300 was born.
Airbus are 'lucky' they can offer the Alliance engine as an option on the A380 as it appears the Trent 900 problems will take some time to solve.
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B772,
I have a mate who was an F/O on the L1011 for CX at the time, and he quite often says that the a/c was so far ahead of its time and an absolute "sportscar" to pole.
Yes, I can see this saga sending RR to the wall. Massive implications to future a/c deliveries and the 787. As I type this I am watching the news and QF have grounded the 380 indefinitely. Do RR have the funds to pay for this???
I have a mate who was an F/O on the L1011 for CX at the time, and he quite often says that the a/c was so far ahead of its time and an absolute "sportscar" to pole.
Yes, I can see this saga sending RR to the wall. Massive implications to future a/c deliveries and the 787. As I type this I am watching the news and QF have grounded the 380 indefinitely. Do RR have the funds to pay for this???
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Better for the carriers to work with RR rather than drag them through the courts. RR will survive, a fix will be initiated, lots of engine changes in the mean time the guys and gals working on the dugong are going to get very good at that!!!
Folks,
If it has not already been posted here, the AD on the Trent 900 published by EASA on Jan 15/2010 is interesting reading. It is EASA AD 2010-0008.
re: Alliance engine used by Emirates, it is performing enough ahead of book that a new set performance data has/will be certified, not just using "delta" flight plan adjustments.
The Trent 900 apparently does not make book figures, even after a mod. program to reduce the shortfall.
Going right back to the Conway, bearing/lubrication/seals have been a continuing "issue" for RR.
Early days of the RB211 C/D/524 weren't too bright, either.
Talks of an RB211-900 harmonic vibration raises old memories of the QF engine shop (when we had one) telling RR their engines were not balanced well enough in production. ROS were proved correct,when the QF balancing procedures and tolerances were adopted by RR, this had a measurable effect on RB 211 engine reliability.
Tootle pip!!
If it has not already been posted here, the AD on the Trent 900 published by EASA on Jan 15/2010 is interesting reading. It is EASA AD 2010-0008.
re: Alliance engine used by Emirates, it is performing enough ahead of book that a new set performance data has/will be certified, not just using "delta" flight plan adjustments.
The Trent 900 apparently does not make book figures, even after a mod. program to reduce the shortfall.
Going right back to the Conway, bearing/lubrication/seals have been a continuing "issue" for RR.
Early days of the RB211 C/D/524 weren't too bright, either.
Talks of an RB211-900 harmonic vibration raises old memories of the QF engine shop (when we had one) telling RR their engines were not balanced well enough in production. ROS were proved correct,when the QF balancing procedures and tolerances were adopted by RR, this had a measurable effect on RB 211 engine reliability.
Tootle pip!!
Leadsled:
This is why you need an engine shop.
The alternative is similar to being a dumb blonde female waiting for the mechanic to tell her how much her car repairs will cost.
Folks,
If it has not already been posted here, the AD on the Trent 900 published by EASA on Jan 15/2010 is interesting reading. It is EASA AD 2010-0008.
re: Alliance engine used by Emirates, it is performing enough ahead of book that a new set performance data has/will be certified, not just using "delta" flight plan adjustments.
The Trent 900 apparently does not make book figures, even after a mod. program to reduce the shortfall.
Going right back to the Conway, bearing/lubrication/seals have been a continuing "issue" for RR.
Early days of the RB211 C/D/524 weren't too bright, either.
Talks of an RB211-900 harmonic vibration raises old memories of the QF engine shop (when we had one) telling RR their engines were not balanced well enough in production. ROS were proved correct,when the QF balancing procedures and tolerances were adopted by RR, this had a measurable effect on RB 211 engine reliability.
Tootle pip!!
If it has not already been posted here, the AD on the Trent 900 published by EASA on Jan 15/2010 is interesting reading. It is EASA AD 2010-0008.
re: Alliance engine used by Emirates, it is performing enough ahead of book that a new set performance data has/will be certified, not just using "delta" flight plan adjustments.
The Trent 900 apparently does not make book figures, even after a mod. program to reduce the shortfall.
Going right back to the Conway, bearing/lubrication/seals have been a continuing "issue" for RR.
Early days of the RB211 C/D/524 weren't too bright, either.
Talks of an RB211-900 harmonic vibration raises old memories of the QF engine shop (when we had one) telling RR their engines were not balanced well enough in production. ROS were proved correct,when the QF balancing procedures and tolerances were adopted by RR, this had a measurable effect on RB 211 engine reliability.
Tootle pip!!
The alternative is similar to being a dumb blonde female waiting for the mechanic to tell her how much her car repairs will cost.
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B772 Said
If any engine changes are required it will just add to the workload and reduce aircraft availability even more. I doubt if QF has sufficient qualified man power to perform the inspections for the current fleet.
If any engine changes are required it will just add to the workload and reduce aircraft availability even more. I doubt if QF has sufficient qualified man power to perform the inspections for the current fleet.
All because one man holds a grudge!!
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Well unless that is AJ himself, you would be best serving the airline (if you work there) to walk up to AJ's office and if he is not there wait till he is.
That is the kind of cr@p that some moron in upper management gets away with and the CEO can fix swiftly, but the BS filter stops it from getting through.
3 kinds of people in the world.............
1. Those that make things happen
2. Those that watch things happen
3 Those that wonder what the F
happened
That is the kind of cr@p that some moron in upper management gets away with and the CEO can fix swiftly, but the BS filter stops it from getting through.
3 kinds of people in the world.............
1. Those that make things happen
2. Those that watch things happen
3 Those that wonder what the F
happened
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It's not even upper management.
Unfortunately you can't march into AJ or CN's office based on putting 2+2+2 together and coming up with an emphatic 6…..especially when you aren't privvy to 'The Plan'
Unfortunately you can't march into AJ or CN's office based on putting 2+2+2 together and coming up with an emphatic 6…..especially when you aren't privvy to 'The Plan'
Do you think AJ now appreciates the feeling of helplessness that occurs when an outsourced service screws up?
Do you think the Board now understands what "loss of control of a core competency" means with respect to outsourcing?
It is perfectly OK to outsource a function where there is already a thriving highly competitive market from which to choose a supplier from; a supplier who can be changed at will at zero real cost. Examples abound; office cleaning, computer repair, telephones, etc.
As an aside, which airline is going to receive priority from RR? I'll bet it won't be Qantas.
To put it another way, every time I'm buying a new car I ask the same question; "Are the official service manuals available for purchase?" If the answer is no I walk away. I spent my weekly flying money on buying a new set of front disks for the 'cruiser and put them on yesterday. It actually stops now.
Do you think the Board now understands what "loss of control of a core competency" means with respect to outsourcing?
It is perfectly OK to outsource a function where there is already a thriving highly competitive market from which to choose a supplier from; a supplier who can be changed at will at zero real cost. Examples abound; office cleaning, computer repair, telephones, etc.
As an aside, which airline is going to receive priority from RR? I'll bet it won't be Qantas.
To put it another way, every time I'm buying a new car I ask the same question; "Are the official service manuals available for purchase?" If the answer is no I walk away. I spent my weekly flying money on buying a new set of front disks for the 'cruiser and put them on yesterday. It actually stops now.