Rumour: Sunstate Engineers suspended over aircraft sabotage?
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ampclamp - argy bargy
It was called Industrial action - no O/T, no traveling for breakdown's and no stepping up to fill senior roles.
The company shut down the shift system that allowed maintenance to be carried out..
They set up the third party maintenance and introduced the fine system with the credo "the layers made us do it".
The door locks had been mentioned to the idiots on prior occasions - result - nil response.
The 6 instigated the following - modification of door locks (even though nothing wrong) and eventually installation of the electronic key pad type (still nothing wrong with the old lock)
If Q was really interested in ending dispute they would make first contact however more interested in coming to talk at the engineers with the usual rhetoric "not here to negotiate but reiterate the companies position" I think the boy's know your position.
If the Qld monopoly on RPT is disturbed by another player - then you will realy see what the bastardry has achieved.
The company shut down the shift system that allowed maintenance to be carried out..
They set up the third party maintenance and introduced the fine system with the credo "the layers made us do it".
The door locks had been mentioned to the idiots on prior occasions - result - nil response.
The 6 instigated the following - modification of door locks (even though nothing wrong) and eventually installation of the electronic key pad type (still nothing wrong with the old lock)
If Q was really interested in ending dispute they would make first contact however more interested in coming to talk at the engineers with the usual rhetoric "not here to negotiate but reiterate the companies position" I think the boy's know your position.
If the Qld monopoly on RPT is disturbed by another player - then you will realy see what the bastardry has achieved.
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Hey all,
Yes the saga continues and will for a while.
The six have all been found guilty (by Qantaslink Managers) of all these breaches of procedure. They have been given letters on file and are back at work after a 3 month break.
They have also been docked 4 hours pay each for the day they snagged the cockpit doors because in the companies view this action was not carrying out their job in the normal manner and therefore constitutes unprotected Industrial Action. I wonder if the 380 pilots who turned a plane back to Sin suffered the same fate?
ALAEA is contesting this whole lot of garbage in the Federal Court. We have been preparing submissions this week.
Yes the saga continues and will for a while.
The six have all been found guilty (by Qantaslink Managers) of all these breaches of procedure. They have been given letters on file and are back at work after a 3 month break.
They have also been docked 4 hours pay each for the day they snagged the cockpit doors because in the companies view this action was not carrying out their job in the normal manner and therefore constitutes unprotected Industrial Action. I wonder if the 380 pilots who turned a plane back to Sin suffered the same fate?
ALAEA is contesting this whole lot of garbage in the Federal Court. We have been preparing submissions this week.
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Okay, thank you. 
Please keep us informed of any future news on this disgusting business.
I hope the Companies do NOT make this c*ap retrospective
or I will be liable for a fortune, all the defects I have found and reported as an LAME over some 40 years. 
Please keep us informed of any future news on this disgusting business.
I hope the Companies do NOT make this c*ap retrospective
or I will be liable for a fortune, all the defects I have found and reported as an LAME over some 40 years.
What happens when a LAME sends an aircraft out with a defect and it crashes?
Is it going to be a defence in the inevitable CASA prosecution, that the LAME knew that something was defective, but did not ground the aircraft for fear of being penalised for unprotected industrial action?
Do we have not a "double bind" situation where the company formal procedures are at variance with the informal procedures, but a "triple bind" situation where not only are the company's formal procedures at variance with their actual procedures, but the regulator (CASA) has its own version of what should be done that is at variance with both?
This is where the non specific, "Alician*" looking glass legislation leaves us all without guidance.
*
Is it going to be a defence in the inevitable CASA prosecution, that the LAME knew that something was defective, but did not ground the aircraft for fear of being penalised for unprotected industrial action?
Do we have not a "double bind" situation where the company formal procedures are at variance with the informal procedures, but a "triple bind" situation where not only are the company's formal procedures at variance with their actual procedures, but the regulator (CASA) has its own version of what should be done that is at variance with both?
This is where the non specific, "Alician*" looking glass legislation leaves us all without guidance.
*
'No, no!' said the Queen. 'Sentence first - verdict afterwards.'
'Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. 'The idea of having the sentence first!'
'Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.
'I won't!' said Alice.
'Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.
'Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. 'The idea of having the sentence first!'
'Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.
'I won't!' said Alice.
'Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.
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Scab time.
I hear that an ex manager from Sunstate will be coming back to help the company out. It is a bit rude after they basically pushed him out the door a couple of years ago and were happy to see him go. I suspect he may be in for a bit of a rough time from the lads on the floor. Not one to be trusted.
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SP - good to see the union taking it on in the Fed Court - as well as a favourable judgement perhaps the court can order directions for a bit of corporate common sense too!
AT
AT
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Popsicle 6
Just a thought here.
The 6 have had 3 months off - come back for retraining in company procedures - 20+ days probation.
The company has supposedly lost confidence in their - integrity, ability ?
Shouldn't all engineers there have a real reason to have little faith in the management to do the right thing i.e. GIVE THEM A FAIR GO !
With a former employee coming back under - contract ? Knowing the situation how low is this person.
Hopefully he will be given the cold shoulder he so rightly deserves.
It will be interesting to see if the Fed court is "SO" impressed with the expensive lawyers brought in by the Q that the truth takes a back seat to the interpretation (to the bull****).
I believe a very dangerous precedent has been set and it will only be up to the spinal fortitude of the individual to not allow the company to steam roll them. Knowing full well that the company will never back that person, but offer them up as the sacrificial lamb to take the heat off their own incompetence.
To all - tread carefully and cover thy backside.
The 6 have had 3 months off - come back for retraining in company procedures - 20+ days probation.
The company has supposedly lost confidence in their - integrity, ability ?
Shouldn't all engineers there have a real reason to have little faith in the management to do the right thing i.e. GIVE THEM A FAIR GO !
With a former employee coming back under - contract ? Knowing the situation how low is this
person.Hopefully he will be given the cold shoulder he so rightly deserves.
It will be interesting to see if the Fed court is "SO" impressed with the expensive lawyers brought in by the Q that the truth takes a back seat to the interpretation (to the bull****).
I believe a very dangerous precedent has been set and it will only be up to the spinal fortitude of the individual to not allow the company to steam roll them. Knowing full well that the company will never back that person, but offer them up as the sacrificial lamb to take the heat off their own incompetence.
To all - tread carefully and cover thy backside.
Last edited by Bigdog01; 29th Jan 2011 at 12:18.
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Just a further update all. This one is about the unfair wage dockings. The matter was partially handed over to the Fair Work Ombudsman. They are investigating the docking of 4 hours pay because 2 LAMEs took 10 minutes from start time until they got to an aircraft that was departing some time later. No delay involved.
First interviews for this matter are on Wednesday.
cheers
Steve
First interviews for this matter are on Wednesday.
cheers
Steve
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This whole thing is just so ridiculous and a terrible reflection on Qantas.
So what are these LAMEs supposed to do, IF your shift starts at say 0700 are Qantas saying you MUST be at whatever aircraft you are going to work on at exactly 0700?
IF this is what these morons at Qantas are saying, are you supposed to do things like find out what aircraft you are going to be working on, what checks and other work is required on said aircraft, checking all the paper work and log books etc in your OWN TIME?
Ridiculous behaviour from The Spirit Of Australia, totally UN AUSTRALIAN.......
So what are these LAMEs supposed to do, IF your shift starts at say 0700 are Qantas saying you MUST be at whatever aircraft you are going to work on at exactly 0700?
IF this is what these morons at Qantas are saying, are you supposed to do things like find out what aircraft you are going to be working on, what checks and other work is required on said aircraft, checking all the paper work and log books etc in your OWN TIME?
Ridiculous behaviour from The Spirit Of Australia, totally UN AUSTRALIAN.......
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This one is about the unfair wage dockings.
Steve,
This is good news, but I believe there were other dockings for frivolous matters.
Will they be taken to task over these also.
This is good news, but I believe there were other dockings for frivolous matters.
Will they be taken to task over these also.
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engineering sabotage ?
I am new here but have been reading this thread for awhile and finally decided to post.
Is this for real - a major player in the airline industry treating there engineering staff this way.
The best insurance any company can have against incidents are loyal and dedicated engineers who will use their expertise without bias to ensure safe air travel.
I am sure each and every engineer out there who reads this thread will be asking himself " would or could my company do this to me".
How will the company get back a good working relationship with its staff, from the outside looking in irrepaireable damage done - trust levels on both sides non existent.
There needs to be a co-operative working relationship between managers and staff.
Obviously something triggered this mess - couldn't have just been a dispute over a pay rise.
Is this for real - a major player in the airline industry treating there engineering staff this way.
The best insurance any company can have against incidents are loyal and dedicated engineers who will use their expertise without bias to ensure safe air travel.
I am sure each and every engineer out there who reads this thread will be asking himself " would or could my company do this to me".
How will the company get back a good working relationship with its staff, from the outside looking in irrepaireable damage done - trust levels on both sides non existent.
There needs to be a co-operative working relationship between managers and staff.
Obviously something triggered this mess - couldn't have just been a dispute over a pay rise.
How will the company get back a good working relationship with its staff, from the outside looking in irrepaireable damage done - trust levels on both sides non existent.
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Obviously something triggered this mess - couldn't have just been a dispute over a pay rise.
Years of being lied to buy managers who are more interested in pleasing their bosses buy cost cutting and not improving the efficiencies of a maintenance base stuck in the 80's when they had a couple of twin otters.
The pay dispute was the straw on the camels back.
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QF departments
Hey B.U.F.F. you just need to speak to ANY QF employee in ANY department and they will tell you this applies to the whole company, not just one particular group of employees.
Sue it is very sad when such an iconic company in Aus willing treats its employees in such a manner. What gains do they hope to achieve?
Where do they hope to be in 10 years or is it a case of " I won't be there in 5 years got my bonus let some other fool sort out my mess".
Flash in the pan managers - too many aussie companies import these genius's only to find out they aren't as good as they think they are. Then they hire another to fix the mess left, only to find the next ones no better.
Sue it is very sad when such an iconic company in Aus willing treats its employees in such a manner. What gains do they hope to achieve?
Where do they hope to be in 10 years or is it a case of " I won't be there in 5 years got my bonus let some other fool sort out my mess".
Flash in the pan managers - too many aussie companies import these genius's only to find out they aren't as good as they think they are. Then they hire another to fix the mess left, only to find the next ones no better.
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Next round
Just heard there have been more fines handed down by the mis management team.
Fined 8 hours pay for U/Sing 2 aircraft for non secure cockpit doors - waited 3 months to do this - one of the popsicle 6.
Not sure how many infringements each these guys are going to get fined for - could be for each substantiated item.
What a system they have - subsidies the replacement of so called compliant door locks with fines from the guys who only had the public's best interest at heart. Seems fair.
Fined 8 hours pay for U/Sing 2 aircraft for non secure cockpit doors - waited 3 months to do this - one of the popsicle 6.
Not sure how many infringements each these guys are going to get fined for - could be for each substantiated item.
What a system they have - subsidies the replacement of so called compliant door locks with fines from the guys who only had the public's best interest at heart. Seems fair.