Rumour: Sunstate Engineers suspended over aircraft sabotage?
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Sunstate Findings
Basically guilty as charged.
Still have job but under 20+ days probation under management supervision on dayshift.
The company claims to have lost confidence in their ( the 6's) engineering ability.
Appeal being lodged through and to the same people who shafted them - seems fair!
Actual details confidential.
Not over yet.
Still have job but under 20+ days probation under management supervision on dayshift.
The company claims to have lost confidence in their ( the 6's) engineering ability.
Appeal being lodged through and to the same people who shafted them - seems fair!
Actual details confidential.
Not over yet.
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findings
Hang on I don’t’ understand how they can find 1/3 of the engineering work force guilty Shurly this points out that there is a floor in the maintenance protocol of sunnys and maintaining aircraft is not on top of their agenda! Did they have hard facts of the guilty notion or was it guesswork probably guessing I mean lying to prove a point and 
people around who try to make the sky’s safe. I assume the company will try to make another point in the next 20 days. Hang in there guys where with you keep fighting the good fight 
people around who try to make the sky’s safe. I assume the company will try to make another point in the next 20 days. Hang in there guys where with you keep fighting the good fight
So what is CASA saying about this situation? If you are by law required to report a defect and the doors were proven to be defective what are you supposed to do now? Even if it was hypothetically an industrial campaign that does not get you out of the regulations. A defect is a defect regardless of how you found it or at what stage your pay negotiations were up to.
Secondly to this what are QF saying?? If the engineers knew about this problem, did nothing about it, and someone MacGyvered the door open and hijacked an aircraft are the LAME's then guilty under the same legislation for not reporting a known defect?
CASA has to act here because by not taking action against QF they are condoning a straightforward breach of the regulations
I remember a few years ago a very reputable operator got themselves into a messy situation by not reporting defects. The aircraft was based away from their maintenance base so minor defects weren't written up until the aircraft went in for scheduled maintenance where everything was sorted out no questions asked. CASA inadvertently caught the operator doing this and subsequently read them the riot act threatening to pull their maintenance approval.
So if they are prepared to act on smaller operators then begs the question why are they not going to act here for what is a breach of the regulations? Or are CASA arguing that the doors are not defective?
Secondly to this what are QF saying?? If the engineers knew about this problem, did nothing about it, and someone MacGyvered the door open and hijacked an aircraft are the LAME's then guilty under the same legislation for not reporting a known defect?
CASA has to act here because by not taking action against QF they are condoning a straightforward breach of the regulations
I remember a few years ago a very reputable operator got themselves into a messy situation by not reporting defects. The aircraft was based away from their maintenance base so minor defects weren't written up until the aircraft went in for scheduled maintenance where everything was sorted out no questions asked. CASA inadvertently caught the operator doing this and subsequently read them the riot act threatening to pull their maintenance approval.
So if they are prepared to act on smaller operators then begs the question why are they not going to act here for what is a breach of the regulations? Or are CASA arguing that the doors are not defective?
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Doors
It would appear that the doors under the reg's meet all known criteria.
The fact it could be opened once locked is of no consequence.
CASA inspected the doors 3 days after locks modified to stop insertion of alt key. Couldn't fault door. Also doors shimmed out to stop leaning on toilet door frame and releasing c/pit door " Alt method #2".
Hence CASA one stop behind - instead of demanding to see A/C immediately.
I believe all of them have been hit with the "conduct unbecoming" out of the Q policy manual.
Sad day for aviation and those who try to maintain "safe sky's for all"
The big boy's write their own rules. The regulator HAS to make an appointment, otherwise it could be called victimization and they know all about that as they practice it everyday!
The fact it could be opened once locked is of no consequence.
CASA inspected the doors 3 days after locks modified to stop insertion of alt key. Couldn't fault door. Also doors shimmed out to stop leaning on toilet door frame and releasing c/pit door " Alt method #2".
Hence CASA one stop behind - instead of demanding to see A/C immediately.
I believe all of them have been hit with the "conduct unbecoming" out of the Q policy manual.
Sad day for aviation and those who try to maintain "safe sky's for all"
The big boy's write their own rules. The regulator HAS to make an appointment, otherwise it could be called victimization and they know all about that as they practice it everyday!
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Just so i'm clear on this, we randomly drug test sportsmen/women so that the integrity of the game is never in question. While the most serious outcome of a drug affected player would be that he/she either play's better (heightened sense of ability etc), or plays worse and gets carried off the field unconcious...number of lives directly affected = 1, and a few p'd off fans and officials.
But, our national regulator can't randomly check our Air Operators for integrity of their operations, while the outcome of a serious incident could directly affect anywhere from 30 - 400 lives, cause a collapse of an airline, cripple the countries air travel etc
Seriously, is that correct? FEDSEC why can't we blow the whistle on all of this? Have the media sensationalised so much that the gov't and travelling public just wouldn't beleive you?
But, our national regulator can't randomly check our Air Operators for integrity of their operations, while the outcome of a serious incident could directly affect anywhere from 30 - 400 lives, cause a collapse of an airline, cripple the countries air travel etc
Seriously, is that correct? FEDSEC why can't we blow the whistle on all of this? Have the media sensationalised so much that the gov't and travelling public just wouldn't beleive you?
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our national regulator can't randomly check our Air Operators for integrity of their operations
I remember decades ago at AN Airline, we would be advised weeks ahead of a surprise check by CASA, allowing time for Company Inspectors to come first and check all was in order, and correct any problems before the surprise visit from CASA.
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airsupport, nothing has changed with those surprise visits mate!!
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airsupport, nothing has changed with those surprise visits mate!!
That really WOULD be a surprise...........
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Arnold E - Get the hell off this website. It's for aircraft professionals and those persons actually interested in the business. If you wanna keep throwing stones at me, make like a man and send me an email so I know who you are. Until then I will be ignoring your rubbish.
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Dumb Questions Answered !!
To answer your question ARN E;
From reading this thread (and general industry goss.) it seems that so far the Fed Sec has:-
1) Provided direct support to those involved.
2) Provided representation during "hearings".
3) Collected funds for financial support.
4) Provided legal representation/advice.
5) Provided public "situation reports", answered public questions.
6) Raised the situation directedly with senior Qantas management.
7) Discussed the situation with CASA individuals.
What else do you think he should be doing about it, ARN E?
Sorry Fed Sec, but I have to get back to asking, What are you going to do about it?
1) Provided direct support to those involved.
2) Provided representation during "hearings".
3) Collected funds for financial support.
4) Provided legal representation/advice.
5) Provided public "situation reports", answered public questions.
6) Raised the situation directedly with senior Qantas management.
7) Discussed the situation with CASA individuals.
What else do you think he should be doing about it, ARN E?
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If I could just say a few (more) words here.
I am around the same age as you Arnold E, give or take a few years, and I must admit (as I have already done here) I really do NOT understand (or agree with) a lot of the current rules and ways of doing things.
However I have corresponded directly with Steve and am sure he is doing everything he possibly can both for these LAMEs and about the safety issues.
I am around the same age as you Arnold E, give or take a few years, and I must admit (as I have already done here) I really do NOT understand (or agree with) a lot of the current rules and ways of doing things.
However I have corresponded directly with Steve and am sure he is doing everything he possibly can both for these LAMEs and about the safety issues.
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FYI readers, Arnold E has contacted me privately including a phone number and I have passed on some more detailed info for him.
As I explained there is a fair bit more going on behind the scenes, much of which cannot be discussed here. A cuppla days after the boys were stood down we commenced action in the Federal Court to test this case under some new, yet to be successfully used workplace laws. Section 340 of the Fair Work Act if anyone is interested.
cheers
As I explained there is a fair bit more going on behind the scenes, much of which cannot be discussed here. A cuppla days after the boys were stood down we commenced action in the Federal Court to test this case under some new, yet to be successfully used workplace laws. Section 340 of the Fair Work Act if anyone is interested.
cheers
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Casa is the issuer of the LAME licence, and the regulatory body, so if they had advised the Sunstate engineers, where they stood on the door safety issue, this mess would have been avoided.
Last edited by GLBS; 22nd Jan 2011 at 23:47.
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Casa is the issuer of the LAME licence, and the regulatory body, so if they had advised the Sunstate engineers, where they stood on the door safety issue, this mess would have been avoided.
While I can understand that CASA do NOT want to become involved in any industrial action, and neither should they get involved in industrial action at an Operator, they should still be keeping an eye on safety issues.
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Had Qantas not been involved, Casa would have been in boots and all.
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I feel like I’m taking crazy pills! How do engineers get investigated for doing there job and CASA stand idle by and do nothing because there in negations what kind of an excuse is that CASA SHOULD GET IN THERE AND INFORCE THE REGULATIONS! WTF IS GOING ON!