Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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Qantas shares sink on flight cancellations
Shares in Qantas Airways Ltd have slipped after the airline announced it will ground two additional aircraft as ongoing industrial action continues to halt its flight operations.
At 1321 AEDT, Qantas shares fell 5.19 per cent to $1.46, against a 1.95 per cent drop in the benchmark index.
The grounding will result in the cancellation of 80 domestic flights this month and the additional removal of 20,000 seats, Qantas said in a statement.
That takes the number of aircraft taken out of service by Qantas to seven, and the number of flights cancelled as a result to about 500.
Qantas chief executive officer Alan Joyce said the airline was lacking manpower to continue necessary maintenance of its fleet.
“The industrial action has caused a shortfall of more than 60,000 man hours of maintenance and this is increasing on a daily basis, forcing us to ground aircraft, " Mr Joyce said.
Due to the dispute with Australian Licenced Engineers Association (ALAEA), Qantas has been forced to cancel 500 flights and ground seven aircraft over the past two weeks.
A ban on overtime by the Australian Licensed Engineers Association has forced the grounding of the aircraft, Mr Joyce said.
"The ongoing action from the licensed aircraft maintenance engineers union means we do not have the manpower to fulfil all of the necessary maintenance on our fleet of aircraft," he said.
"If this overtime ban continues, we will be grounding even more aircraft."
Mr Joyce said the bans were not affecting safety but were causing "ongoing and unplanned disruption".
"This is impacting our passengers holiday and business travel plans and it is impacting on the tourism industry," he said.
He denied claims by the union that aircraft were already going to be grounded due to a lack of spare parts.
"These aircraft are flying this week and from Monday they won't be," he said.
"When we clear the backlog of maintenance then the aircraft will be put back into service - it's as simple as that," he said.
ALAEA spokesman Steve Purvinas said Qantas had planned months ago to ground the planes.
"Maybe he should have removed the internal Qantas paperwork that said that they were grounded for disposal ... they announced in April that these aircraft were going to be sold," Mr Purvinas told AAP on Tuesday.
"Alan Joyce is full of lies and the sooner he starts being honest with the employees, the public and the shareholders, the quicker Qantas will get back on track."
Shares in Qantas Airways Ltd have slipped after the airline announced it will ground two additional aircraft as ongoing industrial action continues to halt its flight operations.
At 1321 AEDT, Qantas shares fell 5.19 per cent to $1.46, against a 1.95 per cent drop in the benchmark index.
The grounding will result in the cancellation of 80 domestic flights this month and the additional removal of 20,000 seats, Qantas said in a statement.
That takes the number of aircraft taken out of service by Qantas to seven, and the number of flights cancelled as a result to about 500.
Qantas chief executive officer Alan Joyce said the airline was lacking manpower to continue necessary maintenance of its fleet.
“The industrial action has caused a shortfall of more than 60,000 man hours of maintenance and this is increasing on a daily basis, forcing us to ground aircraft, " Mr Joyce said.
Due to the dispute with Australian Licenced Engineers Association (ALAEA), Qantas has been forced to cancel 500 flights and ground seven aircraft over the past two weeks.
A ban on overtime by the Australian Licensed Engineers Association has forced the grounding of the aircraft, Mr Joyce said.
"The ongoing action from the licensed aircraft maintenance engineers union means we do not have the manpower to fulfil all of the necessary maintenance on our fleet of aircraft," he said.
"If this overtime ban continues, we will be grounding even more aircraft."
Mr Joyce said the bans were not affecting safety but were causing "ongoing and unplanned disruption".
"This is impacting our passengers holiday and business travel plans and it is impacting on the tourism industry," he said.
He denied claims by the union that aircraft were already going to be grounded due to a lack of spare parts.
"These aircraft are flying this week and from Monday they won't be," he said.
"When we clear the backlog of maintenance then the aircraft will be put back into service - it's as simple as that," he said.
ALAEA spokesman Steve Purvinas said Qantas had planned months ago to ground the planes.
"Maybe he should have removed the internal Qantas paperwork that said that they were grounded for disposal ... they announced in April that these aircraft were going to be sold," Mr Purvinas told AAP on Tuesday.
"Alan Joyce is full of lies and the sooner he starts being honest with the employees, the public and the shareholders, the quicker Qantas will get back on track."
Last edited by Nassensteins Monster; 18th Oct 2011 at 06:00. Reason: Dodgy quotation
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New piper and Prairigirl must have just stepped out of a Managers meeting.... Is this the plan of action, go onto Pprune and try bring down the engineers with more B-S.
Let me tell the two of you that your jobs are not too far behind us... I repeat, Behind us... thats the same at the centrelink line if you do not join the majority of the staff in stopping the rape of a great airline.
Get real, we all need Qantas as much as Qantas needs us! And if people think Qantas can survive on Rice and recycled water, good luck I say. Australian standards are one of the highest in the world, if you want to put a "Made in China" label on it, so be it. But remember that the reject shop and the $2 shop get all their products from..... CHINA!!!
Let me tell the two of you that your jobs are not too far behind us... I repeat, Behind us... thats the same at the centrelink line if you do not join the majority of the staff in stopping the rape of a great airline.
Get real, we all need Qantas as much as Qantas needs us! And if people think Qantas can survive on Rice and recycled water, good luck I say. Australian standards are one of the highest in the world, if you want to put a "Made in China" label on it, so be it. But remember that the reject shop and the $2 shop get all their products from..... CHINA!!!
Share price shows that investors understand what is being done, and by who.
The boyz in Sydney still want to buy the wreck and Joyce is delivering it to them. It's the same boyz that were behind the APA bid.
The boyz in Sydney still want to buy the wreck and Joyce is delivering it to them. It's the same boyz that were behind the APA bid.
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Originally Posted by New Piper
In other words, they don't give a stuff about the younger generation of employees who follow them or indeed the shareholders who have funded this business that YOU WORK FOR and that has fed your hand for several decades.
Its nothing short of vandalism but its all going to end in tears for you. Shareholders are enjoying watching you guys gets screwed, deservedly so, and they support the CEO in whatever it takes!
Its nothing short of vandalism but its all going to end in tears for you. Shareholders are enjoying watching you guys gets screwed, deservedly so, and they support the CEO in whatever it takes!
Airline shareholders are morons. They deserve what they get. Anyone who invests in the airline industry has granite in the grey matter.
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This is starting to look like a train smash, albeit a very long train with a lot of momentum that is taking long time to come to a stop.
I have faith in the ALAEA but I do hope that their trump card is all might and power.
This latest round of groundings is just another load of crap, but the public isn't able to hear the real story behind it all.
I have faith in the ALAEA but I do hope that their trump card is all might and power.
This latest round of groundings is just another load of crap, but the public isn't able to hear the real story behind it all.
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Another OW slip up
Just saw OW on CH10 news. Slipped up and said "we will continue with the retirement of these four aircraft". Picked up by a reporter on whether it was retirement or grounding due maintenance she stutteringly changed it to 'grounding'. Very nervous body language after the slip up from engineering honcho standing to the side. The pressure is getting to them and the lies are unravelling.
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RE: Overtime bans,
Didn't timber deck release an email before PIA started stating that any overtime requests by a DMM had to be approved at his level first? They made overtime a dirty word, not us.
Didn't timber deck release an email before PIA started stating that any overtime requests by a DMM had to be approved at his level first? They made overtime a dirty word, not us.
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Before the PIA how much OT was in use at other ports. In Sydney it has been almost non existent for over 6 months.
So to ground aircraft due to the OT must be a smokescreen.
Unless Avalon and Bris HM were working a lot of OT, then OT bans shouldn't really have had much of an impact.
So to ground aircraft due to the OT must be a smokescreen.
Unless Avalon and Bris HM were working a lot of OT, then OT bans shouldn't really have had much of an impact.
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Hi Sunny, I have no affiliation with QANTAS, but entirely agree your comments regarding 'the boyz'. From my perspective this all smells.
I also remember what I regarded as a good post of yours sometime back that was related to psychopathic behaviour in organisations with dysfunctional management. When I look at the current state of affairs in relation to this stand-off, I have to personally question the way this has all been handled by management, including the mouthpieces. It seems to me that some of the stuff coming out is deliberately inflammatory. Just my take, but I cannot come to any other conclusion based on what I have read.
Unfortunately, Joe Public seems to be buying the spin at the moment and that's regrettable. Joe can't distinguish between jets that are past their use-by-date and jets that need to be put on the ground for maintenance.
Keep injecting your views. I, for one, appreciate your insightful observations.
I also remember what I regarded as a good post of yours sometime back that was related to psychopathic behaviour in organisations with dysfunctional management. When I look at the current state of affairs in relation to this stand-off, I have to personally question the way this has all been handled by management, including the mouthpieces. It seems to me that some of the stuff coming out is deliberately inflammatory. Just my take, but I cannot come to any other conclusion based on what I have read.
Unfortunately, Joe Public seems to be buying the spin at the moment and that's regrettable. Joe can't distinguish between jets that are past their use-by-date and jets that need to be put on the ground for maintenance.
Keep injecting your views. I, for one, appreciate your insightful observations.
Last edited by Howabout; 18th Oct 2011 at 07:01.
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NewPiper,
Your members are falling into this bear trap.
Not my members, I am just one hyped up ex QFF who is very tired of the lies and deceptions AND the fact that no one is challenging the Rat spin and amazingly delusional statements like "there was no safety risk".
This person should know and should have conceded that broken engines and flames mid air are NOT normal and do represent a risk to all on board.
Perhaps given the prevalence of these events they are now considered as normal by Rat Executive.This is the only plausible explanation other than someone is not telling the truth.
I cannot and will not stand by and allow these things to happen without comment, even if I am totally ignored by all but trolls.
Your members are falling into this bear trap.
Not my members, I am just one hyped up ex QFF who is very tired of the lies and deceptions AND the fact that no one is challenging the Rat spin and amazingly delusional statements like "there was no safety risk".
This person should know and should have conceded that broken engines and flames mid air are NOT normal and do represent a risk to all on board.
Perhaps given the prevalence of these events they are now considered as normal by Rat Executive.This is the only plausible explanation other than someone is not telling the truth.
I cannot and will not stand by and allow these things to happen without comment, even if I am totally ignored by all but trolls.
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What I'd like to know is: If AJ just will not move on job security, that must mean there must be more coming......So what is it? What is his big picture, his plan, his vision for QF 3 years from now?
. Obviously, you misread my post - and my previous posts. silly.
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What I'd like to know is: If AJ just will not move on job security, that must mean there must be more coming......So what is it? What is his big picture, his plan, his vision for QF 3 years from now?
The future looks like this:
1) Instead of 2 Mech to 1 Avionic LAME, it will shake out somewhere between 4 and 10 B1 to B2, in line with other operators. Sparkies, prepare your CVs. The majority of you are surplus to requirements.
2) "A" licenses to slowly increase. If "A" licenses can perform a large proportion of the current workload of line LAMEs (ie servicing and minor maintenance functions as described in the QEPM) it stands to reason that they'll eventually make up the majority of future LAMEs. Total "B" licenses to be reduced over time by attrition and redundancy. Too bad when the institutional memory inherent in decades of experience walks out the door to be replaced by pimply "A" licenses with two years in the industry and a week or two of task-specific training. They'll be working on super-sophisticated aircraft that almost never break, tell you what's wrong with them when they do and dodge lightning and birds. Now where have I heard that before? Oh that's right: with the introduction of the B767, B747-400, B737-800, A330...
3) B747-400s flogged to the death and never replaced. Qantas International as we know it to slowly shrink to a few major transcontinental trunk routes, simply a few A380s serving the purpose of flying billboards on high profit routes - a fig-leave to the Qantas Sale Act. I suspect the A380s have been a disappointment. They have not provided the paradigm shift in air transport like the B747 did, hence the suspension of the last 6 A380s out to 2019. There is plenty of scope for order cancellations in the contract of sale.
4) "Qantas Group" will be an umbrella term for the numerous franchise airlines: Qantas Domestic, RedQ, the many iterations of Jet*, JetConnect, EFA etc etc "surrounding and feeding" China and feeding foreigners onto Qantas Domestic services.
5) Continued circumventing of the unionised workforce with labour hire companies. Attrition and redundancy of "legacy" unionised pilots, FAs & engineers.
6) When actual Qantas International aircraft are such a small proportion of the entire "Qantas Group" fleet, remaining "legacy" unionised staff will be forced to to either eat the same **** sandwich that non-unionised staff have been eating for years, or move on.
Why the sudden turnaround with the 110 A320 "all-the-eggs-in-the-one-basket" strategy? Why even rush to the A320 and A320neo without careful consideration of what Boeing were going to offer to counter the neo? Why defer first the B787s and now the A380s? We had the chance for B744 fleet renewal with the B777-200LRs (first delivered 2006) and B777-300ERs, and we didn't take it. Have we learned nothing from NOT buying B777s? The airline is craving fleet renewal, both Domestic and International. It is an insult to our mainline passengers to continue to shuttle them around in clapped out old aircraft. We risk repeating the mistakes of the past - Domestic at least - by flying clapped out ex-Jet* A330s as replacements for the clapped out B767s. And we'll STILL be flogging around reconfigured B744s burning 30% more fuel than a B777 in 10 years time.
Alternatively, it is far more fuel-efficient to operate wide-bodies point-to-point: fly direct between Aus and Asian, North and South American and European destinations with B777s/B787s/A350s. Keep the A380s for high density routes. It was after all the original plan.
Seriously, it beggars belief how supposedly intelligent institutional investors haven't been asking the hard questions. Perhaps WE need to start asking the hard questions of our managed share fund managers and super fund managers.
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Just saw Olivia on channel 10, friggin hilarious. Good lesson in body language there. You know its true now, first Al Milne, now Olivia. Grounding the 380, yeah right! You'd look like a bigger bunch of incompetent fools than you already are, if you do that.
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she does look flustered, lmao.
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