Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23
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It'll be a lot harder for them this time without Hawke and Abels. I don't think the public are stupid about air safety at all. They thought they were powerless in '89 and so they went on making the best of it. Now with the internet and communication as it is; it'll be hard to crush a decent job action.
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Originally Posted by Stationair8
Personally I would avoid a couple of those individuals on the list from representing professional pilots at all costs.
As would I!!!
Originally Posted by OzGrade3
...A Current Affair, Today Tonight
Those brain-dead twats couldn't get it right even if you spoon-fed them! They're mindless regurgitators of the most simplistic, sensationalist drivel to ever be passed-off as main-stream media reporting!!!
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Extracts from Dick Smiths Documentary - The Population Puzzle (ABC)
DICK VO: Last year two thirds of Australia's doctors and nurses were recruited from the world's poorest nations. And why are we looking to the developing world to fill gaps in our work force? because it's a hell of a lot easier and cheaper than training our own people
DICK SYNC: We do it, the easiest way we can and the cheapest way and if you can simply bring someone in as a skilled immigrant, and not do any of the training,
DICK SYNC: What I'd like to see is Australian business concentrating on training people, increasing the skills of
our own work force before just lazily taking people from overseas.
Dick pretty well says it all.
The fact is the CEO's of our airlines have been trained from university days only to spend money when it is actually needed and not a moment before. Pilots are no different to wing mirrors on a Holden Commodore, we want them delivered and ready to go on the day of assembly and not a minute earlier and if we cant get it on the day we will look elsewhere.
This situation is no different;
1. We need pilots for a new base in Singapore
2. We need to firstly advertise internally for interest within the Qantas
group to see if our qualified pilots will be prepared to move on less pay
and conditions.
3. Shock and Horror we tried advertising within our ranks for interest but
got little interest
4. We cant recruit non endorsed pilots within Australia into the job in time
5. We have no option but to look offshore for qualified pilots now.
As Dick Smith documentary showed our companies are simply choosing the easy way out instead of recruiting and training to meet future needs.
There will be many losers in this if it is succesful but those sitting in GA hoping for a slot into airlines may well be the biggest losers of the lot because the competition for jobs will get a lot harder and the knock on effect to our aviation market will be devestating.
Its a disgrace.
Good luck for next week, I wish you well..
DICK VO: Last year two thirds of Australia's doctors and nurses were recruited from the world's poorest nations. And why are we looking to the developing world to fill gaps in our work force? because it's a hell of a lot easier and cheaper than training our own people
DICK SYNC: We do it, the easiest way we can and the cheapest way and if you can simply bring someone in as a skilled immigrant, and not do any of the training,
DICK SYNC: What I'd like to see is Australian business concentrating on training people, increasing the skills of
our own work force before just lazily taking people from overseas.
Dick pretty well says it all.
The fact is the CEO's of our airlines have been trained from university days only to spend money when it is actually needed and not a moment before. Pilots are no different to wing mirrors on a Holden Commodore, we want them delivered and ready to go on the day of assembly and not a minute earlier and if we cant get it on the day we will look elsewhere.
This situation is no different;
1. We need pilots for a new base in Singapore
2. We need to firstly advertise internally for interest within the Qantas
group to see if our qualified pilots will be prepared to move on less pay
and conditions.
3. Shock and Horror we tried advertising within our ranks for interest but
got little interest
4. We cant recruit non endorsed pilots within Australia into the job in time
5. We have no option but to look offshore for qualified pilots now.
As Dick Smith documentary showed our companies are simply choosing the easy way out instead of recruiting and training to meet future needs.
There will be many losers in this if it is succesful but those sitting in GA hoping for a slot into airlines may well be the biggest losers of the lot because the competition for jobs will get a lot harder and the knock on effect to our aviation market will be devestating.
Its a disgrace.
Good luck for next week, I wish you well..
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Dear AFAP,
As a member, why have I not been told about this meeting? By doing so you are helping the airlines to keep us as divided groups, easily defeated.
What I have witnessed in recent weeks is a rare display of genuine pilot unity and a desire to preserve what little conditions our profession has left. This is one of those moments in history that we will all look back on. Its time to act!
I want a union that actively works for best interests of its members. One that has a professional, intelligent and articulate PR spokesman who actively seeks out public avenues to voice our concerns. One that does not get caught up in cat fights and personal conflicts of years gone by, but proactively looks to bettering our futures. That’s why I pay my fees, that’s what I expect.
We need as many people as possible at this meeting in Sydney (and further meetings it Melbourne etc.) and I can't help feeling your personal agendas are possibly not in my best interests, therefore I'm seriously questioning my ongoing membership.
Please show me I’m wrong.
Sincerely,
Disgruntled Member.
As a member, why have I not been told about this meeting? By doing so you are helping the airlines to keep us as divided groups, easily defeated.
What I have witnessed in recent weeks is a rare display of genuine pilot unity and a desire to preserve what little conditions our profession has left. This is one of those moments in history that we will all look back on. Its time to act!
I want a union that actively works for best interests of its members. One that has a professional, intelligent and articulate PR spokesman who actively seeks out public avenues to voice our concerns. One that does not get caught up in cat fights and personal conflicts of years gone by, but proactively looks to bettering our futures. That’s why I pay my fees, that’s what I expect.
We need as many people as possible at this meeting in Sydney (and further meetings it Melbourne etc.) and I can't help feeling your personal agendas are possibly not in my best interests, therefore I'm seriously questioning my ongoing membership.
Please show me I’m wrong.
Sincerely,
Disgruntled Member.
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Does anyone know what VIPA are saying?
AIPA and VIPA are aligning themselves closer and closer, and the AusALPA agenda is hotting up. Don't hold your breath and expect to see anyone of significance from AFAP though! Funny that..................
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Bring paper bag with eye holes cut out..unmarked van with tinted windows over the road will carry Qantas HR staff practicing zoom lens photography
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Dear AFAP,
As a member, why have I not been told about this meeting? By doing so you are helping the airlines to keep us as divided groups, easily defeated.
What I have witnessed in recent weeks is a rare display of genuine pilot unity and a desire to preserve what little conditions our profession has left. This is one of those moments in history that we will all look back on. Its time to act!
I want a union that actively works for best interests of its members. One that has a professional, intelligent and articulate PR spokesman who actively seeks out public avenues to voice our concerns. One that does not get caught up in cat fights and personal conflicts of years gone by, but proactively looks to bettering our futures. That’s why I pay my fees, that’s what I expect.
We need as many people as possible at this meeting in Sydney (and further meetings it Melbourne etc.) and I can't help feeling your personal agendas are possibly not in my best interests, therefore I'm seriously questioning my ongoing membership.
Please show me I’m wrong.
Sincerely,
Disgruntled Member.
As a member, why have I not been told about this meeting? By doing so you are helping the airlines to keep us as divided groups, easily defeated.
What I have witnessed in recent weeks is a rare display of genuine pilot unity and a desire to preserve what little conditions our profession has left. This is one of those moments in history that we will all look back on. Its time to act!
I want a union that actively works for best interests of its members. One that has a professional, intelligent and articulate PR spokesman who actively seeks out public avenues to voice our concerns. One that does not get caught up in cat fights and personal conflicts of years gone by, but proactively looks to bettering our futures. That’s why I pay my fees, that’s what I expect.
We need as many people as possible at this meeting in Sydney (and further meetings it Melbourne etc.) and I can't help feeling your personal agendas are possibly not in my best interests, therefore I'm seriously questioning my ongoing membership.
Please show me I’m wrong.
Sincerely,
Disgruntled Member.
AIPA and VIPA are aligning themselves closer and closer, and the AusALPA agenda is hotting up. Don't hold your breath and expect to see anyone of significance from AFAP though! Funny that
I certainly hope this meeting doesn't just turn into a "we hate AFAP" rally.
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The AFAP will be present at the meeting as stated in their latest update dated 21/08/10.
http://www.afap.org.au/files/LP65EI5...obs_UPDATE.pdf
http://www.afap.org.au/files/LP65EI5...obs_UPDATE.pdf
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ABC Website
Pilots round on Jetstar over new contracts - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Pilots round on Jetstar over new contracts
Posted 7 hours 49 minutes ago
Jetstar has defended the contracts, saying the contracts are still being finalised.
Jetstar pilots say they are considering launching action with Fair Work Australia as discontent grows about new employment contracts being offered by the airline.
The Australian and International Pilots Association says Jetstar wants to cut wages and conditions for pilots flying planes between Singapore and Melbourne.
Pilots are meeting in Sydney on Monday to consider what action they can take to oppose the plans.
The association's Richard Woodward says the pilots may consider legal action or making a public statement against the company.
"We will brief the pilots on what we think their capabilities are, and what the options are on Monday," he said.
"We have a range of things on the plate, but of course we're not going to publicly telegraph our options in advance."
Jetstar has defended the contracts, and spokesman Simon Westaway says the contracts are still being finalised for the pilots that will be based in Singapore.
"We need to compete with those airlines in the Asia Pacific region [and] they have different arrangements," he said.
"What I can say and assure our pilots is that they will enjoy very good conditions, very good arrangements, and importantly have that flexibility to grow with our organisation.
Pilots round on Jetstar over new contracts
Posted 7 hours 49 minutes ago
Jetstar has defended the contracts, saying the contracts are still being finalised.
Jetstar pilots say they are considering launching action with Fair Work Australia as discontent grows about new employment contracts being offered by the airline.
The Australian and International Pilots Association says Jetstar wants to cut wages and conditions for pilots flying planes between Singapore and Melbourne.
Pilots are meeting in Sydney on Monday to consider what action they can take to oppose the plans.
The association's Richard Woodward says the pilots may consider legal action or making a public statement against the company.
"We will brief the pilots on what we think their capabilities are, and what the options are on Monday," he said.
"We have a range of things on the plate, but of course we're not going to publicly telegraph our options in advance."
Jetstar has defended the contracts, and spokesman Simon Westaway says the contracts are still being finalised for the pilots that will be based in Singapore.
"We need to compete with those airlines in the Asia Pacific region [and] they have different arrangements," he said.
"What I can say and assure our pilots is that they will enjoy very good conditions, very good arrangements, and importantly have that flexibility to grow with our organisation.
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Could it indeed be a bridge too far with respect to the race to the bottom?
I hope so.
Can't make it due work, but full support form the Top End.
Just once people, just once, its time to make it work
I hope so.
Can't make it due work, but full support form the Top End.
Just once people, just once, its time to make it work
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In March 2009, when Qantas LHEBA7 was rolled over, AIPA agreed to recognise the role of Jetconnect.
In December 2009 Qantas Manager DAVID EPSTEIN publicly stated: ‘It's really quite simple. We have New Zealand staff operating New Zealand-originated aircraft; operated by a New Zealand company on aircraft that are registered in New Zealand.....We're feeling confident.’
In August 2010 an AFAP Memo stated: ‘In Jetstar, an operation based in Singapore will be doing flying which should be done under the Australian Jetstar Pilots Agreement.... After considered discussion with our lawyers, it appears there is no legal impediment to the actions proposed by the company.....’
If AIPA continues to run its Jetconnect Fair Work Case to now try and rope in what it agreed to in March 2009, it will not only lose, but will also help create legal precedent for what Jetstar Asia now intends to do. An outcome Australia, its pilots and aircraft engineers simply can’t afford.
AIPA & AFAP need to work together to ensure that Australia & Qantas Jetstar continue to have a world-class industry where pilots and engineers are proud to say: "OUR WORK IS OUR SIGNATURE."
Think United!
In December 2009 Qantas Manager DAVID EPSTEIN publicly stated: ‘It's really quite simple. We have New Zealand staff operating New Zealand-originated aircraft; operated by a New Zealand company on aircraft that are registered in New Zealand.....We're feeling confident.’
In August 2010 an AFAP Memo stated: ‘In Jetstar, an operation based in Singapore will be doing flying which should be done under the Australian Jetstar Pilots Agreement.... After considered discussion with our lawyers, it appears there is no legal impediment to the actions proposed by the company.....’
If AIPA continues to run its Jetconnect Fair Work Case to now try and rope in what it agreed to in March 2009, it will not only lose, but will also help create legal precedent for what Jetstar Asia now intends to do. An outcome Australia, its pilots and aircraft engineers simply can’t afford.
AIPA & AFAP need to work together to ensure that Australia & Qantas Jetstar continue to have a world-class industry where pilots and engineers are proud to say: "OUR WORK IS OUR SIGNATURE."
Think United!
Last edited by WoodenEye; 22nd Aug 2010 at 00:45. Reason: Typo
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How can you be so sure that court case will fail? It's basically untested legislation. Worth a try I reckon. After all, the court case is not about the jobs, it's about under-award pay for those who have the jobs. And yes, the AFAP and AIPA need to work together on this.
All the best for the meeting tomorrow boys and girls, I'd be there if I could but I'm on duty. Let us unite, might be our last chance.
All the best for the meeting tomorrow boys and girls, I'd be there if I could but I'm on duty. Let us unite, might be our last chance.
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Pilots vow go-slow over Jetstar plans
JETSTAR pilots are planning a month long go-slow they have dubbed ''a September to remember'' that could cause delays in protest at what they say is an attempt by the airline to undermine wages and conditions.More than 100 pilots will meet on Monday to vent their anger over the employment arrangements proposed by the airline as part of its expansion into Asia and Europe.
This includes encouraging pilots to transfer to the airline's new Singapore-Melbourne route where - despite flying Australian-registered A330 aircraft into Australia - they will be employed on private contracts under Singapore laws.
Under the plan, Singapore and Vietnam-based pilots would also be transferred to Australia where they would not be employed under the Jetstar Australia employment agreement, but through a ''new Jetstar Group company'' that would only be required to pay the award rate.
''I think you'll see what might be called a distinct lack of enthusiasm,'' said one pilot, who asked not to be named.
''These are not guys who take this kind of action all the time - there is a lot of anger out there.''
A range of go-slow or work-to-rule measures are being considered by the pilots, including:
Refusing to work outside their scheduled hours to fill in for sick colleagues or to meet increased demand;
Refusing to take on more than a minimum load of fuel, so that if there is an in-flight delay as a result of weather or air traffic, flights will have to be diverted;
A go-slow on pre-flight checks.
''If the pilot feels he needs to read all of the pre-flight checks through twice he will do that,'' the pilot said.
''If a flight is delayed, he won't try to make up time in the air - it'll be steady as she goes.''
Airlines rely heavily on the goodwill of pilots to keep services running on time.
A go-slow by even a fifth of Jetstar's pilots would cause significant delays across the airline with the potential for delays across the broader Qantas-JetStar network.
Jetstar's head of corporate relations, Simon Westaway, refused to comment on the pilots' plans, saying that the airline ''does not respond to speculative commentary''.
He said that more than 70 Jetstar pilots had expressed an interest in working on the new Singapore to Melbourne route where pilots would be ''well remunerated'' on ''Singapore terms'' and ''enjoy the benefits of a Singapore basing, including their low tax environment''. He declined to comment on how much they would be paid.
The vice-president of the Pilots Association, Captain Richard Woodward, said Jetstar's pilot transfer program was an attempt to undercut union-negotiated wage agreements.
I sense IF,ILS & FO's recency could also become a problem.
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IMHO, using annoying industrial tactics to express displeasure with the proposed Jetstar Asia A330 operation ex Singapore, and/or whinging publicly about wages being undercut, will not be helpful.
Nonetheless, using tomorrow’s meeting to help formulate a Vision to help keep Qantas Jetstar Australian might be, and for the sake of Australia & its pilots, I trust that tomorrow’s turnout is overwhelming.
How effective any such Vision ultimately is, depends critically, I believe, on how interested pilots are in the future of Australian aviation and how prepared AIPA/AFAP are to work with our Aircraft Engineers to formulate a plan that will keep the industry as we know it anchored in Australia.
No I won’t be at tomorrow’s meeting McGrath. Am presently in the process of being refamiled on the 744 after 18 mths on the sideline. Nonetheless, have spoken to a number of people about what I believe needs to be done to keep our aviation industry in Australia and expect that my ideas will be tabled at the appropriate time and place.
Good luck! Trust all goes well and those who can attend come away feeling optimistic.
Nonetheless, using tomorrow’s meeting to help formulate a Vision to help keep Qantas Jetstar Australian might be, and for the sake of Australia & its pilots, I trust that tomorrow’s turnout is overwhelming.
How effective any such Vision ultimately is, depends critically, I believe, on how interested pilots are in the future of Australian aviation and how prepared AIPA/AFAP are to work with our Aircraft Engineers to formulate a plan that will keep the industry as we know it anchored in Australia.
No I won’t be at tomorrow’s meeting McGrath. Am presently in the process of being refamiled on the 744 after 18 mths on the sideline. Nonetheless, have spoken to a number of people about what I believe needs to be done to keep our aviation industry in Australia and expect that my ideas will be tabled at the appropriate time and place.
Good luck! Trust all goes well and those who can attend come away feeling optimistic.
Fair enough, clearly you would if you could. Just wanted to check you put your money where your mouth is in the Think United front, glad to see you do and hopefully everyone is able to work optimistically together as you say.
I agree that affecting passengers is maybe not the best tactic, especially this early on in the campaign we want to get as many people onside as possible don't we?
I agree that affecting passengers is maybe not the best tactic, especially this early on in the campaign we want to get as many people onside as possible don't we?