Qantas A380 - LAME positions.
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i think you have "short circuited" yourself mate its only ment for line not base same as MA's you cannot use test equip only the stuff supplied onbd the a/c so get a hold of yourself its not about replacing YOU but in a line situation a mech bloke can use it to get home so you can fix it .......
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The rim your probably right, but the worrying thing for us mech's is that 90% of the sparkies at the SIT hold there mech basics, just a few basic worksheets and they are B1, and the other thing is the 380 course is run that the B2 guys sit in on the B1 course as well as the B2, there are numerous sparkies already holding B1 basic, not to many mech's.
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There is a bit more to picking up a new trade or trades than a few poxy casa basic's!
If Lame's had more sense they would obstruct any system that undermines real trade training that just creates a bunch of pens that undermines the real trades and the campaign for maintaining safety and standards.
If you undermine the quality of your trade and licence a without proper training and experience a fair reward for your knowledge and experience associated with it will also reduce. A catch 22 really.
I am sick of short sighted bone head LAME's happy to play the system which is purposely being worked by companies via puppetering of CASA.
I understand the ALAEA is addressing the farce of ill qualified LAME's picking up trades without real underpinning knowledge or experience. Yes the very issue that plagues Europe and their Kellog's Licence's that undermines real LAME's over there.
Lame's with type licences after two weeks of training is a real concern. That's politics' and it sux but is being addressed. The FAA is realising it EASA is realising it. Hopefully CASA will grow some teeth.
Harmonisation is a joke if it has no standard enforced. It does not help if we make it work by slipping through the back door that's been left ajar and take trades without real qualification purposefully set to entrap you for your own demise.
Australia has the best system in the world which is being dismantled.
If Lame's had more sense they would obstruct any system that undermines real trade training that just creates a bunch of pens that undermines the real trades and the campaign for maintaining safety and standards.
If you undermine the quality of your trade and licence a without proper training and experience a fair reward for your knowledge and experience associated with it will also reduce. A catch 22 really.
I am sick of short sighted bone head LAME's happy to play the system which is purposely being worked by companies via puppetering of CASA.
I understand the ALAEA is addressing the farce of ill qualified LAME's picking up trades without real underpinning knowledge or experience. Yes the very issue that plagues Europe and their Kellog's Licence's that undermines real LAME's over there.
Lame's with type licences after two weeks of training is a real concern. That's politics' and it sux but is being addressed. The FAA is realising it EASA is realising it. Hopefully CASA will grow some teeth.
Harmonisation is a joke if it has no standard enforced. It does not help if we make it work by slipping through the back door that's been left ajar and take trades without real qualification purposefully set to entrap you for your own demise.
Australia has the best system in the world which is being dismantled.
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The FAA is realising it EASA is realising it. Hopefully CASA will grow some teeth.
Australia has the best system in the world which is being dismantled.
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rudderless1, I am happy to see there are others out there in lame land that can see past their ego's and see the erosion of our licences.
A380 is the start of the end. The others will find out all be it too late to stem the rot.
A380 is the start of the end. The others will find out all be it too late to stem the rot.
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oh dear...i dont think you blokes have got it yet.....yes we have the best system for LAME's.... buuuut its about to be undone and we will go to the EASA system sometime next year with a sunset clause for ALL LAME's to be transfered to the EASA system in a period of time. Cat A's will be introduced and most B1's[not all] will find themselves in the hangar with the B2's.....this does not mean I agree with it, but just stating facts....we [the union]should get the cat A's in the union so we can have some control over the use of them rather than say ....we are not having them...the rest of the world uses this type of system we will not be able to hold it back....and hey like I said I dont want it but face facts,it will happen
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Rim, finally, a sensible post in this thread. Thankyou. I have resisted posting to now. This is not about MECH vs AV, B1 vs B2. The FACT is that CAO 100.66 is here, and very shortly CASR66 will be the licencing system in place. No ifs, no buts- it is a fait accompli. Too late now to bitch about it- you all should have done that years ago when it was first proposed and there was the chance to submit your objections to CASA.
'A' licences are coming. For the company they are very attractive as they will require less training on their part. The ALAEA should embrace the 'A' licence holder as a LAME, and ensure that these licence holders are suitably recognised and renumerated in future EBAs. To do otherwise is to stick your head in the sand and be in denial of what is inevitable. The LAME licencing landscape is changing, and you better adapt.
'A' licences are coming. For the company they are very attractive as they will require less training on their part. The ALAEA should embrace the 'A' licence holder as a LAME, and ensure that these licence holders are suitably recognised and renumerated in future EBAs. To do otherwise is to stick your head in the sand and be in denial of what is inevitable. The LAME licencing landscape is changing, and you better adapt.
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Rim bold thoughts but true, your prob right most guys will eventually convert there licenses but however it is goin to be complex for people to convert there type ratings to full B1, the LMA training won't cover it as B1 is full elec privliges and the gap training will be to much. Don't think we will see our current types apart from the 380 certified under the Part 66 system however once the 787 arrives most of the 744 and 767's will have gone and yes then full speed ahead for an "A" license tarmac with a few B1's there. I believe the only guys who prob could get a full B1 on the 744 are the Avionic guys who did the mech LMA a few years ago and hold full A/F ENG credits for the 744, apparently a couple of them have converted them to full 5 cat licenses??.
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Changeawheel, we will ALL be transitioned to the CASR66 system, as the current CAR31 system will no longer exist. What will happen is that your current licence will be "grandfathered" and you will be issued with, say, a B1.1 "limited" licence that will still encompass your current licence priviledges, but exclude you from those extra electrical ATAs that you have not been trained on. You just need to look at how this system has been introduced in other parts of the world to see our future. i.e. the B1.1 licence is the preferred licence of choice for a line maint organisation, with just a handful of B2 licences to provide that necessary AV support. Heavy or Base Maint is the land of the 'A', B1 and B2 licence.
I'm not advocating one licence system over another, or have a preference for AV or MECH. I'm just trying to state what will be inevitable.
There is no replacement for a AV LAME with 20 years of experience, nor is there any replacement for a sheetmetal worker with 20 years of experience, nor a greaser with 20 years of experience in door rigging, flight control rigging and engine running. Everyone has there own particular set of skills. No-one is a jack of all trades.
I'm not advocating one licence system over another, or have a preference for AV or MECH. I'm just trying to state what will be inevitable.
There is no replacement for a AV LAME with 20 years of experience, nor is there any replacement for a sheetmetal worker with 20 years of experience, nor a greaser with 20 years of experience in door rigging, flight control rigging and engine running. Everyone has there own particular set of skills. No-one is a jack of all trades.
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Chicken Littles everywhere! To many years under Dixon me thinks.
The sky is not falling.
Remember the A380? 12 to 24 LAME's to introduce M said. Good one M, go an drive your trainset, try not to break it.
The A Cat, well where are these coming from? They still need a brain, brains cost money, they still need training, training costs money, they can't troubleshoot, they can't supervise, turnarounds are short, time is money.
I guess we will convert all the AME's to CAT A's oh hang on you need AME's to start with isn't there a problem, I know we will pay them less? I guess we will attract mindless scum on less pay than an AME to be a CAT A for more responsibly not to mention SAFETY? That'll work! Guys wake up Have some confidence, be smart and stop the undermining of you valuable licence by shortsighted LAME's taking advantage of your trades and watering them down at the same time.
Aircraft break, aircraft need fixing, and the bigger they are the more they cost when they stop.
Also is a CAT A really going to bust his hump to undermine a CAT B? I doubt it. B is where he wants to BE (that could be a LAME cliche')
Will a CAT A get paid less than an AME, I doubt it. Think about that one its not real hard.
But a CAT A needs only a CERT 2, an AME is a CERT 4 why would they pay him more? No where in the world do they pay him a CAT A less, usually between and AME and B1. I'd be a bit pissed if I trained for four years and a monkey gets a gig in your area for more money and less training when I am totally capable of doing the role! So I guess any AME would there for expect to be an A CAT, its obvious really and since its a Licence, hmmmm well I would be certain that is ALAEA territory.
Catch 22 really, I hope LAME's do pull there collective heads out of the sand, the FUD was clearing but here we see it has returned, I thought we got rid of that some time ago? Didn't we vote and change few years ago from the rhetoric we knew wasn't true!
Come on LAME's don't be LAME AGAIN!
The sky is not falling.
Remember the A380? 12 to 24 LAME's to introduce M said. Good one M, go an drive your trainset, try not to break it.
The A Cat, well where are these coming from? They still need a brain, brains cost money, they still need training, training costs money, they can't troubleshoot, they can't supervise, turnarounds are short, time is money.
I guess we will convert all the AME's to CAT A's oh hang on you need AME's to start with isn't there a problem, I know we will pay them less? I guess we will attract mindless scum on less pay than an AME to be a CAT A for more responsibly not to mention SAFETY? That'll work! Guys wake up
Have some confidence, be smart and stop the undermining of you valuable licence by shortsighted LAME's taking advantage of your trades and watering them down at the same time.Aircraft break, aircraft need fixing, and the bigger they are the more they cost when they stop.
Also is a CAT A really going to bust his hump to undermine a CAT B? I doubt it. B is where he wants to BE (that could be a LAME cliche')
Will a CAT A get paid less than an AME, I doubt it. Think about that one its not real hard.
But a CAT A needs only a CERT 2, an AME is a CERT 4 why would they pay him more? No where in the world do they pay him a CAT A less, usually between and AME and B1. I'd be a bit pissed if I trained for four years and a monkey gets a gig in your area for more money and less training when I am totally capable of doing the role! So I guess any AME would there for expect to be an A CAT, its obvious really and since its a Licence, hmmmm well I would be certain that is ALAEA territory.
Catch 22 really, I hope LAME's do pull there collective heads out of the sand, the FUD was clearing but here we see it has returned, I thought we got rid of that some time ago? Didn't we vote and change few years ago from the rhetoric we knew wasn't true!
Come on LAME's don't be LAME AGAIN!
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Too late now to bitch about it- you all should have done that years ago when it was first proposed
B1.1 licence is the preferred licence of choice for a line maint organisation, with just a handful of B2 licences to provide that necessary AV support. Heavy or Base Maint is the land of the 'A', B1 and B2 licence.
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Ngineer, you are correct. But it IS too late to bitch about it. All we can do is learn to make the most of it. And the current QF system of maintenance will need to change to take in the new CASR66 regs. There is already plenty of movement in this area. eg. the splitting up of the QEPM into the EPM, MCM and the AAOP. Go have a talk to someone from QS & RM. Change is coming- there's no stopping it. So as LAMEs we need to embrace these changes so that we, as a group, can obtain the best outcome for ourselves and for future LAMEs ie. the apprentices and AMEs who will obtain part 66 licences as their 1st licence. Us current LAMEs are going to be stuck in a "transition" period, but for the LAMEs of tomorrow part 66 will be all they know. We need to get onboard to secure our own future and the future of the LAMEs of tomorrow.
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yes they did complain about it .....i remember tim H telling us that we should embrace the cat A's as they will be comming and will boust the numbers in OUR union,and we will be able to control them.....as for "brainless1" idear that the pay system will hold them back...remember that a cat A will only have to do a few years to become one as a full AME will still have to do four years so there is the carrot for them get in early and receive a payment earlier...mmmmm sounds nice..and yes FMU all present LAME's will be turned into B1&B2's ....hey with a payment,now I can just see a EBA ...get a payment for becomming a EASA type LAME and agree to cat A's ....let me get some feed back on that one....
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As some have already said, it's past the point of no return for CASR66.
No doubt the company's goal is to train most current and new AMEs to A licence supplementing the B1 and B2 LAMEs with the obvious wage savings that will bring. Hopefully, with fleet expansion and so many guys close to retirement age there won't be too many current LAMEs displaced.
We (the ALAEA) should embrace the A licence "LAMEs" with the aim of minimising the pay diference between an A and the equivalent full B1 or B2, establishing quota control and bolstering membership.
No doubt the company's goal is to train most current and new AMEs to A licence supplementing the B1 and B2 LAMEs with the obvious wage savings that will bring. Hopefully, with fleet expansion and so many guys close to retirement age there won't be too many current LAMEs displaced.
We (the ALAEA) should embrace the A licence "LAMEs" with the aim of minimising the pay diference between an A and the equivalent full B1 or B2, establishing quota control and bolstering membership.
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Rim,
Best you read my post again,
no need to get offensive, the fact is there is only so little a person will work for and be capable of doing a job! QF or other airlines can't attract or certainly retain any decent AME's on the money they pay. I thought you may have noticed this?
A CAT's take more responsibility, though less trained but facts show they still draw atleast the same but generally more than an AME in income, can you see the problem yet?
A Cat's are coming, so what, is there a "real benefit"? In my opinion not really. In 35 minute turnarounds with most of that lost, do you waste those valuable moments seeking a B cat? A CAt's will be AME's reallocated by default, the only difference is who will represent them.
A Cat's are not for the hangar either, period.
Yes, I embrace the new system, mech's to B1 and av's to B2 + B1 limited, nice crossover in the middle to allow the flexibility of personal provided real training and qualifications are received. No one's toes are stepped on, equal remuneration for equal scopes of work.
Nothing much will change in a hurry, the aging workforce will be seen safely to the door without any angst. New comers will be trained, the longer the company waits the greater the pain will be for the company.
Don't know about redundancies, they may just have to wait.
Things are changin' but in aviation we always know it will be slow and painful and generally wrong.
Best you read my post again,
no need to get offensive, the fact is there is only so little a person will work for and be capable of doing a job! QF or other airlines can't attract or certainly retain any decent AME's on the money they pay. I thought you may have noticed this?
A CAT's take more responsibility, though less trained but facts show they still draw atleast the same but generally more than an AME in income, can you see the problem yet?
A Cat's are coming, so what, is there a "real benefit"? In my opinion not really. In 35 minute turnarounds with most of that lost, do you waste those valuable moments seeking a B cat? A CAt's will be AME's reallocated by default, the only difference is who will represent them.
A Cat's are not for the hangar either, period.
Yes, I embrace the new system, mech's to B1 and av's to B2 + B1 limited, nice crossover in the middle to allow the flexibility of personal provided real training and qualifications are received. No one's toes are stepped on, equal remuneration for equal scopes of work.
Nothing much will change in a hurry, the aging workforce will be seen safely to the door without any angst. New comers will be trained, the longer the company waits the greater the pain will be for the company.
Don't know about redundancies, they may just have to wait.
Things are changin' but in aviation we always know it will be slow and painful and generally wrong
.
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If most AMEs end up with an A licence and in the association it would make it very difficult for the company to implement a scab force that relies on AMEs for arms and legs in future disputes...