QF EBA Voted Down
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If the company's Industrial agenda keeps heading in the same direction Mr Borough then there will be Mortgage foreclosures ,kids yanked out of schools,etc, so pull your head in please.
Just because Qantas pilots are the last remaining half decently paid pilots left in Australia doesn't give you any rights to parade your envy.
Bye the way the average wage for a Qantas Mainline pilot is only about $145K.
Train drivers in some WA mines earn more than $210K and they are having an industrial spat with their employer at present .
Care to cast some disparaging remarks their way because they dare to earn more than Joe the plumber?
Just because Qantas pilots are the last remaining half decently paid pilots left in Australia doesn't give you any rights to parade your envy.
Bye the way the average wage for a Qantas Mainline pilot is only about $145K.
Train drivers in some WA mines earn more than $210K and they are having an industrial spat with their employer at present .
Care to cast some disparaging remarks their way because they dare to earn more than Joe the plumber?
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"by the way the average pay for a Qantas mainline pilot is only about $145K"...
say's it all really, doesn't it?...
some people have no idea about the real world!
Perhaps we should all send "food parcels" to the underpaid Qantas pilots!!??
say's it all really, doesn't it?...
some people have no idea about the real world!
Perhaps we should all send "food parcels" to the underpaid Qantas pilots!!??
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Ken B,
Your type is the most perplexing type of creature one encounters on these forums.
You seem to be all to ready to rip into those who actually are on the front line when it comes to delivering revenue to a company , and are integral to delivering those revenues (note I did not say profits).
Yet remain silent on executive remuneration.
Having been involved in a management position in business it became obvious that whilst the wages bill was a large and vitally important part of costs, that decisions taken by management were an even more expensive proposition.
If EVERY decision made by the management of Qantas added to the bottom line you couldn't begrudge the remuneration. Whoever worked out the fuel hedging position of the last 12-18 months deserves whatever they got. But what about those who picked the routes, planned the fleet, worked out the seat configuration,orchestrated the industrial plans,promoted the Allco bid, etc etc.
All those decisions have impacted negatively on the bottom line, yet you don't question whether these individuals are worth the millions they are pulling out of the bottom line because the airline in-toto delivered a billion dollar result.
What would it have been if the management had actually made every decision correctly?
Okay, nobody could have picked everything correctly without a crystal ball. But why do the management continue to recompense themselves as though they had?
Your type is the most perplexing type of creature one encounters on these forums.
You seem to be all to ready to rip into those who actually are on the front line when it comes to delivering revenue to a company , and are integral to delivering those revenues (note I did not say profits).
Yet remain silent on executive remuneration.
Having been involved in a management position in business it became obvious that whilst the wages bill was a large and vitally important part of costs, that decisions taken by management were an even more expensive proposition.
If EVERY decision made by the management of Qantas added to the bottom line you couldn't begrudge the remuneration. Whoever worked out the fuel hedging position of the last 12-18 months deserves whatever they got. But what about those who picked the routes, planned the fleet, worked out the seat configuration,orchestrated the industrial plans,promoted the Allco bid, etc etc.
All those decisions have impacted negatively on the bottom line, yet you don't question whether these individuals are worth the millions they are pulling out of the bottom line because the airline in-toto delivered a billion dollar result.
What would it have been if the management had actually made every decision correctly?
Okay, nobody could have picked everything correctly without a crystal ball. But why do the management continue to recompense themselves as though they had?
drag everybody down to your level cause you've not got a hope of attaining what they've worked for
parade your envy
max1, this discussion is not about executive remuneration. It's about the failure of AIPA membership to agree to a new EBA! Don't get me started on executive pay at Qantas, especially at the top levels. At the working levels, most staff put in very long hours and are not that highly rewarded. There are some d!ckheads as you would find in any company but from what I know of them, you would not find a more dedicated and professional group of people. I am always fascinated by aircrew who think they know better than the experts and specialists in the back offices - on the other side of the Pacific they would be known as "Monday morning quarter-backs".
Now, get back to the EBA.
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As of 0245Z today, you each just copped yourself a lawsuit for libel, and pending caveats on your selling any of your property!!!!
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I would like the "holes" that were identified in EBA8 tided up. It is a step forward - a challenging step but a necessary one I believe. To go back to EBA7++ would just cement in the mind of management how much a bunch of dinosaurs we are. It would give them an excuse to go elsewhere for their pilots.
The "guarantee" of B787 flying that some wanted was fantasy land - at least the statement that if flown in QF livery it would be flown by LH pilots was as good as you would get and could expect. We are going to have to offset a lot more in any future negotiation to get at least this statement back. We have to remain competitive.
Fix EBA8, create incentive to promote and make us relevant to the future of this company.
Time will tell if the 24% that voted yes may have got it right or not. Reminds me of all of those Yes voters for the APA bid that, if it wasn't saved by an error, would now be looking at the ashes of this once proud company.
The "guarantee" of B787 flying that some wanted was fantasy land - at least the statement that if flown in QF livery it would be flown by LH pilots was as good as you would get and could expect. We are going to have to offset a lot more in any future negotiation to get at least this statement back. We have to remain competitive.
Fix EBA8, create incentive to promote and make us relevant to the future of this company.
Time will tell if the 24% that voted yes may have got it right or not. Reminds me of all of those Yes voters for the APA bid that, if it wasn't saved by an error, would now be looking at the ashes of this once proud company.
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Obie, Ken Borough,
So what in your world do you think the average pilot in Qantas should earn? Is 50K too much? Tell me...do you really think earning $145K as an F/O and spending half your nights every year away from home in hotel rooms too much? What price do you think this is worth? I am not complaining-I love my job but I am definately not overpaid. Do you have the same point of view for other industries? Someone raised the point about guys driving trucks at the mine earning the same if not more. What are your thoughts on that??
Cmon....enlighten me to the 'real world' because obviously all my GA time was spent with my head up my arse if I think that I am not overpaid.
Oh and btw Ken.....I dont even wear a watch
So what in your world do you think the average pilot in Qantas should earn? Is 50K too much? Tell me...do you really think earning $145K as an F/O and spending half your nights every year away from home in hotel rooms too much? What price do you think this is worth? I am not complaining-I love my job but I am definately not overpaid. Do you have the same point of view for other industries? Someone raised the point about guys driving trucks at the mine earning the same if not more. What are your thoughts on that??
Cmon....enlighten me to the 'real world' because obviously all my GA time was spent with my head up my arse if I think that I am not overpaid.
Oh and btw Ken.....I dont even wear a watch
Ken
It doesn't just apply to the back office 'Ken'. You have just admitted you are not a QF pilot, and seem to imply you are not a pilot at all. Therefore what you are doing by commenting on this thread is being a "monday morning quarter-back" and commenting officiously on something about which you have no true understanding. Next you'll be finding an orthopaedic surgeon and telling them they're just overpaid underworked carpenters.
Hypocrite.
Not at all. I am financially better off than most QF pilots and derive it where honesty and integrity are more important than the size of one's watch
I am always fascinated by aircrew who think they know better than the experts and specialists in the back offices - on the other side of the Pacific they would be known as "Monday morning quarter-backs".
Hypocrite.
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You need to read gaskets post again Tempo.
He said "the average wage of a Qantas mainline pilot is only about $145K".
And an average is similar to a median, which means salaries are being earned far in excess of that figure! I don't have a problem with that at all. I also don't have a problem with you earning that average salary at this point in your career because I believe you deserve it. You also deserve the 200 to 300k that you'll be earning down the track and I wish you well.
But please, don't cry poor!
He said "the average wage of a Qantas mainline pilot is only about $145K".
And an average is similar to a median, which means salaries are being earned far in excess of that figure! I don't have a problem with that at all. I also don't have a problem with you earning that average salary at this point in your career because I believe you deserve it. You also deserve the 200 to 300k that you'll be earning down the track and I wish you well.
But please, don't cry poor!
Obie - very well put. Some people just can't be objective but instead insist on attacking the individual rather than his or her message. I guess it is much easier to mount a personal attack than sensibly attack the argument. Some things never change.....
As for Tempo saying ' I am still waiting to hear about the 'real world'.......', it perfectly sums up the isolated view of the world that is expressed by many of the higher paid in our midst.
As for Tempo saying ' I am still waiting to hear about the 'real world'.......', it perfectly sums up the isolated view of the world that is expressed by many of the higher paid in our midst.
It will be all different tomorrow with a new AIPA president to be officially announced.
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It will be all different tomorrow with a new AIPA president to be officially announced.
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liger,
You've picked it like a nose.
Unfortunately, that is exactly the agenda of the BJ push.
Goodbye fleet pay. Goodbye modernising the contract to make us relevant in this century.
Welcome back the senior filth with their snouts in the trough and self-interest their only interest.
IW may not have been perfect, but was at least forward looking and altruistic.
You've picked it like a nose.
Unfortunately, that is exactly the agenda of the BJ push.
Goodbye fleet pay. Goodbye modernising the contract to make us relevant in this century.
Welcome back the senior filth with their snouts in the trough and self-interest their only interest.
IW may not have been perfect, but was at least forward looking and altruistic.
Forward looking, pigs bottom. Treat them like mushrooms (in the dark, feed them on manure). Who asked the pilots if they wanted fleet pay (no one). A modern contract (crap) a document that was so badly written QF could have driven a truck through it. Whats wrong with the seniority based system, 76% of those that voted on the EBA voted to keep it. Some ones out of step here and i dont think its me.
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Come on Dave don't gloat so much ,it's unbecoming.
As my old Grandpappy once said "carefull what you wish for"
Time will tell if this was a wise move considering the present circumstances .
Congratulations or should that be condolences,( depending on your outlook ) to Barry and his band of merry company men considering the looming finacial tsunami about to hit us.
As my old Grandpappy once said "carefull what you wish for"
Time will tell if this was a wise move considering the present circumstances .
Congratulations or should that be condolences,( depending on your outlook ) to Barry and his band of merry company men considering the looming finacial tsunami about to hit us.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 1st Nov 2008 at 22:46.