Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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The facts
Thank you for your post. I understand and have very similar feelings as you do. As time goes on,the shift work & this unapreciative employer has an increased affect on your life, health and family.
I too have watched my husband change from a happy,content, patient, caring and loving person to someone who is cranky, angry, irritable and struggles with fatigue constanly (age comes into this). You can only put up with this level of imcompetence for so long before it affects you.
Don't get me wrong he loves his job but the disgust, anger and dissapiontment he has for Airservices is quiet sad.
Airservices Australia expects more and more and give less and less back to their employees. (expect of course more phone calls to disrupt your sleep to come to work, unless I unplug the phone which is becoming a regular occurance).
I have spoken to many wives/partners and the disbelief of how this company is run and the way they treat their staff is nothing less than disgusting. The lies, deciet, insulting remarks and complete lack of respect for their staff is disgracful.
One thing Airservices fails to take understand is, this affects families not just the employee. The resentment is builidng, not just from the workers now but from wives; and trust me we can have far more of a say on what our husbands do than than Airservices ever will.
I'm pleased another wife has posted on here to show it affects more than the worker.
I too have watched my husband change from a happy,content, patient, caring and loving person to someone who is cranky, angry, irritable and struggles with fatigue constanly (age comes into this). You can only put up with this level of imcompetence for so long before it affects you.
Don't get me wrong he loves his job but the disgust, anger and dissapiontment he has for Airservices is quiet sad.
Airservices Australia expects more and more and give less and less back to their employees. (expect of course more phone calls to disrupt your sleep to come to work, unless I unplug the phone which is becoming a regular occurance).
I have spoken to many wives/partners and the disbelief of how this company is run and the way they treat their staff is nothing less than disgusting. The lies, deciet, insulting remarks and complete lack of respect for their staff is disgracful.
One thing Airservices fails to take understand is, this affects families not just the employee. The resentment is builidng, not just from the workers now but from wives; and trust me we can have far more of a say on what our husbands do than than Airservices ever will.
I'm pleased another wife has posted on here to show it affects more than the worker.
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I just showed those posts to my wife, and she said, 'yes, it's all true.' 
and I've just found this on my employer's job 'opportunity' page
https://airservicesaustralia.nga.net..._jobs_list.cfm
Hmm....
read through this thread and decide for yourself if any of the highlighted/bolded sections above are true, or just more spin....
and I've just found this on my employer's job 'opportunity' page
https://airservicesaustralia.nga.net..._jobs_list.cfm
Attention all Air Traffic Controllers!
Are you looking for an opportunity in an organisation that values your professional expertise?
Are you keen to work in a technically progressive environment?
Are you looking for more control over the direction of your career and where you and your family reside?
If so, Airservices Australia might have just what you're looking for..........
We are a government-owned corporation providing safe and environmentally sound air traffic control management and related airside services to the aviation industry. In a region covering 11 per cent of the world’s surface, we manage air traffic operations for around 63 million passengers on more than 4 million domestic and international flights every year. We have also been twice voted as the world’s best provider of air traffic control.
Airservices Australia are currently recruiting for their 2009/2010 training courses. We are actively seeking to recruit previously trained and rated Air Traffic Controllers, people just like you.............
Our new application form allows you to indicate your first, second and third preferences in relation to your stream and location, so now you know we're listening, right from the word go..........
We are looking to work with you, to provide a career opportunity that is right for you and your family. We know you have kids in school and university and they're fed up of moving. We know what you really love is working on the console, not paperwork. We know it's a candidate led market and you're looking for the right opportunity for you.
Get more control over your life...............apply now to be considered for our 2009 courses! For more information please refer to our website at www.airservicesaustralia.com or call Aldona Stravopodis on (02) 6268 5048.
Are you looking for an opportunity in an organisation that values your professional expertise?
Are you keen to work in a technically progressive environment?
Are you looking for more control over the direction of your career and where you and your family reside?
If so, Airservices Australia might have just what you're looking for..........
We are a government-owned corporation providing safe and environmentally sound air traffic control management and related airside services to the aviation industry. In a region covering 11 per cent of the world’s surface, we manage air traffic operations for around 63 million passengers on more than 4 million domestic and international flights every year. We have also been twice voted as the world’s best provider of air traffic control.
Airservices Australia are currently recruiting for their 2009/2010 training courses. We are actively seeking to recruit previously trained and rated Air Traffic Controllers, people just like you.............
Our new application form allows you to indicate your first, second and third preferences in relation to your stream and location, so now you know we're listening, right from the word go..........
We are looking to work with you, to provide a career opportunity that is right for you and your family. We know you have kids in school and university and they're fed up of moving. We know what you really love is working on the console, not paperwork. We know it's a candidate led market and you're looking for the right opportunity for you.
Get more control over your life...............apply now to be considered for our 2009 courses! For more information please refer to our website at www.airservicesaustralia.com or call Aldona Stravopodis on (02) 6268 5048.
Hmm....
read through this thread and decide for yourself if any of the highlighted/bolded sections above are true, or just more spin....
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Are you looking for more control over the direction of your career and where you and your family reside? and We know you have kids in school and university and they're fed up of moving.
Gee, why don't they just ring up RAAF controllers directly and offer them jobs ... oh hang on, they already are....
Gee, why don't they just ring up RAAF controllers directly and offer them jobs ... oh hang on, they already are....
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apply now to be considered for our 2009 courses
this part is especially interesting, because according to all the official spokespeople (JH, ms. NAB, TFN etc) AsA 'has no trouble attracting applicants', and indeed, the whole of 2009 training courses are supposedly all full up and booked out.
unless of course AsA are going to repeat their trick of postponing an ab initio course should they get enough RAAFies interested (and getting said course to TGO for the RAAFies)
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Earlier this year plenty of RAAF tower controllers applied for ASA. They were eventually told that ASA would definitely NOT be training any tower controllers from outside ASA in 2009.
So they stayed in the RAAF and accepted the 12 month retention payment.
You soon learn in ASA that when they say they definitely won't do something....
You guessed it. Tower courses WILL be run in 2009 (STOP PRESS: YSSY tower is desperate for staff. Gee, when did they work that out?! What about the extensive workforce planning they did!?) but the RAAFies can't get out until at least September!
There's not enough enroute instructors to run the April RAAF course and an abinitio course so the RAAFies may get flicked across to the tower course, thereby shafting the tower RAAFies who were told there would be no courses!!
My advice is: STAY IN THE RAAF! This mob aren't worth it.
So they stayed in the RAAF and accepted the 12 month retention payment.
You soon learn in ASA that when they say they definitely won't do something....
You guessed it. Tower courses WILL be run in 2009 (STOP PRESS: YSSY tower is desperate for staff. Gee, when did they work that out?! What about the extensive workforce planning they did!?) but the RAAFies can't get out until at least September!
There's not enough enroute instructors to run the April RAAF course and an abinitio course so the RAAFies may get flicked across to the tower course, thereby shafting the tower RAAFies who were told there would be no courses!!
My advice is: STAY IN THE RAAF! This mob aren't worth it.
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RAAF controllers, YES we need you! And you are indeed welcome!
If you don't stay in the RAAF get everything they offer in writing (like pay increment you will recieve, conditions of transfer etc.) and endorsed by the highest HR manager you can. AsA have a habit of not only reneging on verbal agreements but written ones as well. Those who have been around a while can all attest to seeing individuals, even with written terms, having to fight tooth and nail to get them fulfilled.
That manager went beyond their authority is always a good excuse!
It may even be worth getting some legal advice before you sign on the dotted line.
Just be wary and check things out with some of your fellow colleges now working for AsA. I'm sure they will give it to you straight!
If you don't stay in the RAAF get everything they offer in writing (like pay increment you will recieve, conditions of transfer etc.) and endorsed by the highest HR manager you can. AsA have a habit of not only reneging on verbal agreements but written ones as well. Those who have been around a while can all attest to seeing individuals, even with written terms, having to fight tooth and nail to get them fulfilled.
That manager went beyond their authority is always a good excuse!
It may even be worth getting some legal advice before you sign on the dotted line.
Just be wary and check things out with some of your fellow colleges now working for AsA. I'm sure they will give it to you straight!
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Not forgetting that there are people who have been with ASA 15/20/25 years who would love to get Tower jobs who are being passed over for transfer/promtions because staffing has been that critical for years that they are unable to be released to the job they have won.
ASA have a history of ignoring the promises they make to people. We do need the RAAFies (so do the RAAF) but it is galling to see them come straight in and pick up a sought after post, that someone has been waiting on for years and been selected as the most suitable candidate. No offence to the RAAFies they didn't cause this.
It is always amazing to see how quickly non-operational people can be moved around to fill management positions. ASA even pay the airfares,living costs to commute weekly to other capital cities to suit their Work/Life balance. Meanwhile we struggle to find people to update training courses or act as Simulator instructors.
My wife and kids agree with those sentiments expressed by controllers significant other halves.
ASA have a history of ignoring the promises they make to people. We do need the RAAFies (so do the RAAF) but it is galling to see them come straight in and pick up a sought after post, that someone has been waiting on for years and been selected as the most suitable candidate. No offence to the RAAFies they didn't cause this.
It is always amazing to see how quickly non-operational people can be moved around to fill management positions. ASA even pay the airfares,living costs to commute weekly to other capital cities to suit their Work/Life balance. Meanwhile we struggle to find people to update training courses or act as Simulator instructors.
My wife and kids agree with those sentiments expressed by controllers significant other halves.
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Until AsA realise that their policies regarding HR and penny pinching actually have a cost (not always directly on the bottom line, but a cost nonetheless) and managers who actually have some long term interest in the organisation and it's health, they will continue to foster the toxic environment they do.
Disallowing movement within the organisation has EXACTLY the same effect as the RAAF enforcing unwanted movement- yet they seek to hire RAAFies, using it as a carrot! Ah, the irony.
Clowns. Always ten years behind the management curve.
Disallowing movement within the organisation has EXACTLY the same effect as the RAAF enforcing unwanted movement- yet they seek to hire RAAFies, using it as a carrot! Ah, the irony.
Clowns. Always ten years behind the management curve.
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Not forgetting that there are people who have been with ASA 15/20/25 years who would love to get Tower jobs who are being passed over for transfer/promtions because staffing has been that critical for years that they are unable to be released to the job they have won.
I appreciate your point, you're right, it's terrible for morale and career progression. However .... ASA is so understaffed at the moment, that the most expedient course is to take RAAFies who are already TWR/APP trained and experienced (especially if they have joint user base ratings) and put them straight into TWR/APP jobs. Retraining them in enroute takes far more time and isn't the most efficient use of their existing skill set.
Likewise, moving ASA controllers between streams necessitates more training and ASA just don't have the capacity for that atm. Sucks that, once again, the controllers suffer for the mismanagement thrust upon them over the last decade or two, but it does, at least, make sense.
As for the holes it leaves in RAAF ATC, that's another issue, but at least the RAAF school of ATC keeps pumping out trainees regularly and efficiently....
I appreciate your point, you're right, it's terrible for morale and career progression. However .... ASA is so understaffed at the moment, that the most expedient course is to take RAAFies who are already TWR/APP trained and experienced (especially if they have joint user base ratings) and put them straight into TWR/APP jobs. Retraining them in enroute takes far more time and isn't the most efficient use of their existing skill set.
Likewise, moving ASA controllers between streams necessitates more training and ASA just don't have the capacity for that atm. Sucks that, once again, the controllers suffer for the mismanagement thrust upon them over the last decade or two, but it does, at least, make sense.
As for the holes it leaves in RAAF ATC, that's another issue, but at least the RAAF school of ATC keeps pumping out trainees regularly and efficiently....
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RAAFASA,
Our global recruits were ALL radar only rated, some APP rated at busy European capital airports, and were told at interview that they would go to radar sectors. We are very short at TCUs. So where did most end up. Thats right, once they got here the promises made to these people were 're-aligned' (broken) and they were re-trained for procedural sectors even though they had never worked or been trained at procedural control due to Europes pretty much universal radar coverage. The ASA people knew when they were interviewing these people that they would be going to procedural, but inferred something else.
I am not saying they were outright lying, more being economical with the truth along the lines of statements like 'we envisage' and 'the intent is'.
Statements led the Global Recruits (GRs) to believe that they WOULD be going to Radar sectors but with lots of wriggle room for when they arrived and the reality was something else. This is the way ASA treat their staff. Remember TFNs promise of a 'bloody good payrise' and 'making ASA a great place to work'. The culture has become 'Say whatever is convenient at the time and spin it later'. Look at what they've told the government and industry re staffing and improvements e.g. User Preferred Routing(free flight). Industry had been promised UPRs Australiawide at the Waypoint 2008 conference by the middle of 2009. It was never going to happen and won't. Standby for spin.
Service Delivery Environment was stated in November 2006 to be completed by November 2007, still waiting.
ASAs intent was to release people from procedural sectors when the GRs got rated. Bugger all of this has actually happened due to the inefficiencies in SDE and people from these sectors resigning to work O/S. One GR couldn't get rated on procedural (no blame on him) so picked up one of the sought after tower jobs. Go figure.
As I have said I don't blame the RAAFies. What of the future? If at some time in the future (?) we ever get back to anything approaching full staffing would you consider it acceptable for the people who have won the jobs and been with ASA for decades to take up these jobs in TWR/APP and for the RAAFies to move to enroute. If someone has the skill set to do APP it wouldn't be too hard to move to enroute. Would you think the RAAFies now coming in would feel aggrieved that they are put back in the queue to reward these people who through no fault of their own have been missing out for years? DO NOT BE SURPRISED if the RAAFie course is changed after they have signed up and they end up going to enroute.
To those thinking of coming make sure you get everything in writing and, also in writing, that the piece of paper you have will continue to be enforceable after the person who gave you the undertaking has moved on. ASA try to use the convenient argument ,after the event, that the manager who made the undertaking exceeded their authority or the 'corporate memory' is hazy as to what was actually agreed to. If you are thinking of coming remember ethics and integrity have no place in this corporate world.
Our global recruits were ALL radar only rated, some APP rated at busy European capital airports, and were told at interview that they would go to radar sectors. We are very short at TCUs. So where did most end up. Thats right, once they got here the promises made to these people were 're-aligned' (broken) and they were re-trained for procedural sectors even though they had never worked or been trained at procedural control due to Europes pretty much universal radar coverage. The ASA people knew when they were interviewing these people that they would be going to procedural, but inferred something else.
I am not saying they were outright lying, more being economical with the truth along the lines of statements like 'we envisage' and 'the intent is'.
Statements led the Global Recruits (GRs) to believe that they WOULD be going to Radar sectors but with lots of wriggle room for when they arrived and the reality was something else. This is the way ASA treat their staff. Remember TFNs promise of a 'bloody good payrise' and 'making ASA a great place to work'. The culture has become 'Say whatever is convenient at the time and spin it later'. Look at what they've told the government and industry re staffing and improvements e.g. User Preferred Routing(free flight). Industry had been promised UPRs Australiawide at the Waypoint 2008 conference by the middle of 2009. It was never going to happen and won't. Standby for spin.
Service Delivery Environment was stated in November 2006 to be completed by November 2007, still waiting.
ASAs intent was to release people from procedural sectors when the GRs got rated. Bugger all of this has actually happened due to the inefficiencies in SDE and people from these sectors resigning to work O/S. One GR couldn't get rated on procedural (no blame on him) so picked up one of the sought after tower jobs. Go figure.
As I have said I don't blame the RAAFies. What of the future? If at some time in the future (?) we ever get back to anything approaching full staffing would you consider it acceptable for the people who have won the jobs and been with ASA for decades to take up these jobs in TWR/APP and for the RAAFies to move to enroute. If someone has the skill set to do APP it wouldn't be too hard to move to enroute. Would you think the RAAFies now coming in would feel aggrieved that they are put back in the queue to reward these people who through no fault of their own have been missing out for years? DO NOT BE SURPRISED if the RAAFie course is changed after they have signed up and they end up going to enroute.
To those thinking of coming make sure you get everything in writing and, also in writing, that the piece of paper you have will continue to be enforceable after the person who gave you the undertaking has moved on. ASA try to use the convenient argument ,after the event, that the manager who made the undertaking exceeded their authority or the 'corporate memory' is hazy as to what was actually agreed to. If you are thinking of coming remember ethics and integrity have no place in this corporate world.
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However .... ASA is so understaffed at the moment, that the most expedient course is to
What is the blue suit school of thought, RAAFASA? Is staff welfare subordinate to "expediency"? Especially when "expediency" in the AsA case equals a managers' bonus?
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Originally Posted by RAAFASA
As for the holes it leaves in RAAF ATC, that's another issue, but at least the RAAF school of ATC keeps pumping out trainees regularly and efficiently....
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If at some time in the future (?) we ever get back to anything approaching full staffing would you consider it acceptable for the people who have won the jobs and been with ASA for decades to take up these jobs in TWR/APP and for the RAAFies to move to enroute.
I would find it acceptable now, it's just that it doesn't seem to be possible at the moment. I really feel for those people who thought they had a career progression from outstation twr to radar twr to capital city, or through arrivals to approach to twr . If you've been in ASA for 10+ years that's no doubt what you expected as that was the way things were done (and promised, no doubt).
ATM it seems that your (generic, not personal "you") current sector/TWR/TMA can't release you, plus the school can't re-train you and the area you want to work in is screaming out for people and can't wait for you. So it would make sense to use TWR/APP experienced RAAFies to plug holes in TWR/APP jobs where they should need minimal (TAAATs conversion) retraining before OJT.
I am constantly amazed that ASA take RAAFies who have DN or TVL radar APP experience and then put them on some procedural en-route sector, rather than a Territory or Reef radar sector where they would be familiar with the airspace, traffic patterns and local idiosyncrasies, plus know their radar standards inside out.
Sure, they have the aptitude to cross train onto procedural enroute - but what a waste of their existing abilities. I once thought that Human Resources would make the most of the human resources available to them ....
But the penny seems to have dropped, because several of the RAAFies booked to start an enroute course in early Jan, have recently (try Christmas Eve) been asked to consider a SY TMA or TWR position instead!
What is the blue suit school of thought, RAAFASA? Is staff welfare subordinate to "expediency"?
I can only give you my school of thought, of course, but atm, I'd have to say yes. If it helps avoid TIBA, reduced services and unreasonable overtime requirements on current staff, then let's increase rated controllers asap - even if they are ex-RAAF. The flip side, of course, is that pi$$ed off ASA controllers may keep voting with their feet.... sigh. It should never have been allowed to deteriorate to this stage...
A word about the former blue suiters, too. Remember the culture they come from is quite different to the ASA one. They have been used to being shafted at the last minute (holidays, postings, courses etc) and being required to work extra duties or over time (unpaid and often not compensated by in lieu days) at short notice to cover for their workmates' deployments or illnesses. So until they adjust to civvie life, they may find it hard to say no to requests from management - I know I used to. It's not about the dollar, it's about the "can do" attitude.
Except the RAAF School is batting between 16 and 33 % pass rate for the last few courses. Recruiting standards are at an all time low, or so I've heard..
Don't know about the stats, but I'm grateful that they're not pushing through graduates just to keep their stats up. The new guys are getting ratings so the ones who make it seem to have earned it. It was frustrating and demoralising (in the old days) to see ab initio trainees struggle in OJT, when they should never have graduated in the first place.
I would find it acceptable now, it's just that it doesn't seem to be possible at the moment. I really feel for those people who thought they had a career progression from outstation twr to radar twr to capital city, or through arrivals to approach to twr . If you've been in ASA for 10+ years that's no doubt what you expected as that was the way things were done (and promised, no doubt).
ATM it seems that your (generic, not personal "you") current sector/TWR/TMA can't release you, plus the school can't re-train you and the area you want to work in is screaming out for people and can't wait for you. So it would make sense to use TWR/APP experienced RAAFies to plug holes in TWR/APP jobs where they should need minimal (TAAATs conversion) retraining before OJT.
I am constantly amazed that ASA take RAAFies who have DN or TVL radar APP experience and then put them on some procedural en-route sector, rather than a Territory or Reef radar sector where they would be familiar with the airspace, traffic patterns and local idiosyncrasies, plus know their radar standards inside out.
Sure, they have the aptitude to cross train onto procedural enroute - but what a waste of their existing abilities. I once thought that Human Resources would make the most of the human resources available to them ....
But the penny seems to have dropped, because several of the RAAFies booked to start an enroute course in early Jan, have recently (try Christmas Eve) been asked to consider a SY TMA or TWR position instead!
What is the blue suit school of thought, RAAFASA? Is staff welfare subordinate to "expediency"?
I can only give you my school of thought, of course, but atm, I'd have to say yes. If it helps avoid TIBA, reduced services and unreasonable overtime requirements on current staff, then let's increase rated controllers asap - even if they are ex-RAAF. The flip side, of course, is that pi$$ed off ASA controllers may keep voting with their feet.... sigh. It should never have been allowed to deteriorate to this stage...
A word about the former blue suiters, too. Remember the culture they come from is quite different to the ASA one. They have been used to being shafted at the last minute (holidays, postings, courses etc) and being required to work extra duties or over time (unpaid and often not compensated by in lieu days) at short notice to cover for their workmates' deployments or illnesses. So until they adjust to civvie life, they may find it hard to say no to requests from management - I know I used to. It's not about the dollar, it's about the "can do" attitude.
Except the RAAF School is batting between 16 and 33 % pass rate for the last few courses. Recruiting standards are at an all time low, or so I've heard..
Don't know about the stats, but I'm grateful that they're not pushing through graduates just to keep their stats up. The new guys are getting ratings so the ones who make it seem to have earned it. It was frustrating and demoralising (in the old days) to see ab initio trainees struggle in OJT, when they should never have graduated in the first place.
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Except the RAAF School is batting between 16 and 33 % pass rate for the last few courses. Recruiting standards are at an all time low, or so I've heard..Don't know about the stats, but I'm grateful that they're not pushing through graduates just to keep their stats up. The new guys are getting ratings so the ones who make it seem to have earned it. It was frustrating and demoralising (in the old days) to see ab initio trainees struggle in OJT, when they should never have graduated in the first place.
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Fall guy WE
True that it was the Philippines project that got WE departed, but it was because of legacy left by his already sacked project manager SP.
The financial 'irregularities' (and the rest) found by auditors were incurred by brissys own SP - who is now apparently now at GHD - good luck mates...
In return to save AsA reputation, SP has since done a deal that it be said he jumped ship instead of being pushed out of the depature lounge. i wonder if the ex-GM will do the same.
The financial 'irregularities' (and the rest) found by auditors were incurred by brissys own SP - who is now apparently now at GHD - good luck mates...
In return to save AsA reputation, SP has since done a deal that it be said he jumped ship instead of being pushed out of the depature lounge. i wonder if the ex-GM will do the same.
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Happy New Year all. My resolution is to try even harder to convince my wife that the terms, conditions, lifestyle, experience, and opportunities gained by working/living as an ATC overseas would far outweigh the pain(?) of leaving all the relatives behind.
So until they adjust to civvie life, they may find it hard to say no to requests from management -
It's not about the dollar, it's about the "can do" attitude.
not everyone, but an unrepresentative proportion ....
geasy pole climbing? One of the Brisbane ALMs filed an event report on one of the fellas for going home 2 minutes early. That's right 2 MINUTES EARLY. These are the pieces of sh!t holding these positions.
No sir, it aint no beat up. This particular ALm has all of 2 or 3 years rated but had a number of BOS incudents so they stuck him out the back writing rosters and as a result suck enough c0ck to get an ALM gig. I saw him on day 1 and asked him 'Atre you seriously an ALM?' to which he puffed the chest out and responded 'Yyes, what is the problem?'. Well, apart from the selection criteria about having them selcted from ATCs with ability and experience, nothing
I hope he reads and understands that what goes around, comes around. there are a few more that I know who read need to remember this
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plazbot
I hope he reads and understands that what goes around, comes around. there are a few more that I know who read need to remember this
Love
plazbot