1989- Pilots dispute 19 years on
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Response to Bradley Marsh
Just found this little gem in my private mailbox from "Bradley Marsh".
Some just don't get it. Not content on ruining their own lives and dragging everyone else around them down with the ship, they still gotta spew their bile, and continue with the anonymous threats and abuse as they did back in 89. Keep it up, the more you post abuse the more you prove the mindset that prevailed then and continues today. Good luck to you mate. 
Good luck with your career
May you never sit in the seat beside me.
May you never sit in the seat beside me.
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err...excuse me Tip...do you know something I don't? 
...and where did this Alex Paterson bit on the end come from?
Hey, Moderators...do we accept false & incorrect posts?
...and where did this Alex Paterson bit on the end come from?
Hey, Moderators...do we accept false & incorrect posts?
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It won't be too long b4 both sides of the 89's will be a bunch of lonley old blokes spitting & cursing down at the local RSL. The new 89's will be those that where born in 89 & are about to step aboard a new world of aviation & into history where hard fought battles where won & lost well before they even sucked on a rubber toy plane and will only every read about those battles in the annuls of Australian aviation history.
There's that saying.............."we forgive, but we never forget"! How true the last
CW
There's that saying.............."we forgive, but we never forget"! How true the last
CW
Last edited by Capt Wally; 8th Jun 2008 at 10:25.
I'm really sick to bloody death of you blokes that weren't directly involed in '89 telling us where we weny wrong and why we were stupid and gullable.
You weren't there and have no f idea what we all WENT THROUGH emotionally. It was hell guys, pure and simple.
Butr atleast I can sleep straight in my bed while the scabs ?..............well f them i say.
No where is my chill pill? I think I need one.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr f I'm mad.
BUT I've moved on and things worked out pretty well. That doesn't mean I'll forget the likes of people lke MC that pushed the rest of hard to "stay the course" while he was arranging a job back at Ansett. Nice type, encouraging us the "stick together" while at exactly the same time running away................I will never respect anyone like that.
ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ME.
And he is only one example, there are lots more.
If I respect any scabs it's the ones that voted against industrial action and went back after saying they did not agree. Although they joined a Union and should have atleat tried to respect the majority vote.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I feel better now.
You weren't there and have no f
idea what we all WENT THROUGH emotionally. It was hell guys, pure and simple.Butr atleast I can sleep straight in my bed while the scabs ?..............well f
them i say.No where is my chill pill? I think I need one.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr f
I'm mad.BUT I've moved on and things worked out pretty well. That doesn't mean I'll forget the likes of people lke MC that pushed the rest of hard to "stay the course" while he was arranging a job back at Ansett. Nice type, encouraging us the "stick together" while at exactly the same time running away................I will never respect anyone like that.
ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ME.
And he is only one example, there are lots more.
If I respect any scabs it's the ones that voted against industrial action and went back after saying they did not agree. Although they joined a Union and should have atleat tried to respect the majority vote.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I feel better now.
Last edited by ACMS; 8th Jun 2008 at 10:37.
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I'm really sick to bloody death of you blokes that weren't directly involed in '89 telling us where we weny wrong and why we were stupid and gullable.
You weren't there and have no f idea what we all WENT THROUGH emotionally. It was hell guys, pure and simple.
Butr atleast I can sleep straight in my bed while the scabs ?..............well f them i say.
No where is my chill pill? I think I need one.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr f I'm mad.
You weren't there and have no f idea what we all WENT THROUGH emotionally. It was hell guys, pure and simple.
Butr atleast I can sleep straight in my bed while the scabs ?..............well f them i say.
No where is my chill pill? I think I need one.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr f I'm mad.
BUT I've moved on
Moderator
To some that participated in this thread, from both sides of the fence, congratulations on your conduct and contribution. Sadly, there is always that small minority of "professionals" that can't move on and let old animosities rest.
Thread closed until we think the needless heat has gone out of the argument!
Tail Wheel
Thread closed until we think the needless heat has gone out of the argument!
Tail Wheel
Moderator
We'll try again but at the first inappropriate post this thread disappears forever into cyber space!!!
Moderator
Was Alex Paterson of the B737 with Australian at the time?
.. the brothers were AN.
Sadly, there is always that small minority of "professionals" that can't move on and let old animosities rest.
Whether animosities persist or not, they ought not to be pursued with vigour in PPRuNe ... the dispute participants will be/are approaching (or already have arrived at) senility and, as individuals, eventually will be long forgotten by the Industry.
Individuals, however, retain the prerogative of choosing with whom they might enjoy a drink ...
The Government/Airlines/Unions were able to do incredible damage to a group and the country.. I am mindful that the pilot group backed off rapidly once it all turned pear shaped .. but the other side would have none of that .. and that action (in my insular view) probably was responsible for the dreadful things which followed ....
This suggests that future pilot groups dare not forget the basic Industrial considerations relevant to the dispute .. lest they be tempted to commit similar acts of stupidity as were demonstrated (on both sides) in the lead up to the 89 stoush and the following six months or so.
If folk are honest .. I suspect that ALL would readily admit that, were the clock wound back with hindsight intact ... it would have been a very different dispute ..
Looking back, now, the whole thing was a disgrace/debacle/disaster regardless of which side ...
.. the brothers were AN.
Sadly, there is always that small minority of "professionals" that can't move on and let old animosities rest.
Whether animosities persist or not, they ought not to be pursued with vigour in PPRuNe ... the dispute participants will be/are approaching (or already have arrived at) senility and, as individuals, eventually will be long forgotten by the Industry.
Individuals, however, retain the prerogative of choosing with whom they might enjoy a drink ...
The Government/Airlines/Unions were able to do incredible damage to a group and the country.. I am mindful that the pilot group backed off rapidly once it all turned pear shaped .. but the other side would have none of that .. and that action (in my insular view) probably was responsible for the dreadful things which followed ....
This suggests that future pilot groups dare not forget the basic Industrial considerations relevant to the dispute .. lest they be tempted to commit similar acts of stupidity as were demonstrated (on both sides) in the lead up to the 89 stoush and the following six months or so.
If folk are honest .. I suspect that ALL would readily admit that, were the clock wound back with hindsight intact ... it would have been a very different dispute ..
Looking back, now, the whole thing was a disgrace/debacle/disaster regardless of which side ...
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Here’s a perspective….just one but it’s all I’ve got……
Many things have defined my career. Some, each time I read about them, replay themselves so vividly in my mind I feel the pain and emotion of actually being there, yet I wasn’t…. the United DC-10 at Sioux City…..Neil Williams doing his inverted approach in a Zlin….the Korean 747 at Guam…..the American DC-10 at ORD….the BOAC 707 engine fire at LHR…..and many more. I give thanks that people like Davies wrote “Handling the Big Jets”….that Gann wrote “Fate is the Hunter”….that Johns wrote the “Biggles” stories, that St Exupery wrote “Wind, Sand and Stars” and “The little Prince”….that Bennett wrote the “Complete Air Navigator”…that Kermode wrote “The Mechanics of Flight”……that I saw “Dawn Patrol” and “The Dam Busters”, “The Great Santini” and “The High and the Mighty”, that I read “The Flight of the Intruder” and “Goodbye Mickey Mouse” and that Cecil Lewis put pen to paper for the generations that followed. I can’t forget flying with a survivor of the TAA Viscount crash at Mangalore….I can’t forget being interviewed by Chief Pilot who had flown a Convair down the Brisbane River with an engine in reverse pitch…….or a Chief Check and Training Captain who had rowed at my old school and but months later was flying P-40s in the desert…….
Thus with the “Dispute”. It happened. And I was actually there. I could no more forget it than forget my name or any of the thousand stories that make up the lore of aviation and sit in my treasure box alongside rapidly tarnishing wings and gold bars. I cannot forget the years that my children grew up without me close. I cannot forget polar routes across the Arctic, new airlines and lost airlines, wide-eyed junior F/O’s and the sheer joy of sunrise after long Pacific crossings and the Northern Lights. All so far from home.
Don’t ask me to “get over it”. Don’t ask me to forget that some colleagues voted in secret ballots to encourage me to persist….yet had already signed “contracts”…..that Hawke was ready to do, say or spend anything to do his masters’ bidding….and that many….my family included, could not see why I wouldn’t cross a picket line to save my life. I cannot ever forget that. I can never forget pilots who parroted the mantras “What’s the Federation done for me?”….”I made a decision for my family”….I just took my job back”….as though those oft-repeated words from an Abeles script could hide the treachery beneath.
But I work with those people. I have hired them, shared cockpits with them, checked them, counselled them, mentored them. They are humans…they did what they did. I did what I did….what I voted to do….what 20 years of active AFAP membership had prepared me to do. I sleep well at night. I stay away from melancholy and grief over lost years and wasted emotion….
But I cannot forget and nor should any pilot. Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point. It could happen again…now or soon or in some far distant sky…..but it could happen.
Many things have defined my career. Some, each time I read about them, replay themselves so vividly in my mind I feel the pain and emotion of actually being there, yet I wasn’t…. the United DC-10 at Sioux City…..Neil Williams doing his inverted approach in a Zlin….the Korean 747 at Guam…..the American DC-10 at ORD….the BOAC 707 engine fire at LHR…..and many more. I give thanks that people like Davies wrote “Handling the Big Jets”….that Gann wrote “Fate is the Hunter”….that Johns wrote the “Biggles” stories, that St Exupery wrote “Wind, Sand and Stars” and “The little Prince”….that Bennett wrote the “Complete Air Navigator”…that Kermode wrote “The Mechanics of Flight”……that I saw “Dawn Patrol” and “The Dam Busters”, “The Great Santini” and “The High and the Mighty”, that I read “The Flight of the Intruder” and “Goodbye Mickey Mouse” and that Cecil Lewis put pen to paper for the generations that followed. I can’t forget flying with a survivor of the TAA Viscount crash at Mangalore….I can’t forget being interviewed by Chief Pilot who had flown a Convair down the Brisbane River with an engine in reverse pitch…….or a Chief Check and Training Captain who had rowed at my old school and but months later was flying P-40s in the desert…….
Thus with the “Dispute”. It happened. And I was actually there. I could no more forget it than forget my name or any of the thousand stories that make up the lore of aviation and sit in my treasure box alongside rapidly tarnishing wings and gold bars. I cannot forget the years that my children grew up without me close. I cannot forget polar routes across the Arctic, new airlines and lost airlines, wide-eyed junior F/O’s and the sheer joy of sunrise after long Pacific crossings and the Northern Lights. All so far from home.
Don’t ask me to “get over it”. Don’t ask me to forget that some colleagues voted in secret ballots to encourage me to persist….yet had already signed “contracts”…..that Hawke was ready to do, say or spend anything to do his masters’ bidding….and that many….my family included, could not see why I wouldn’t cross a picket line to save my life. I cannot ever forget that. I can never forget pilots who parroted the mantras “What’s the Federation done for me?”….”I made a decision for my family”….I just took my job back”….as though those oft-repeated words from an Abeles script could hide the treachery beneath.
But I work with those people. I have hired them, shared cockpits with them, checked them, counselled them, mentored them. They are humans…they did what they did. I did what I did….what I voted to do….what 20 years of active AFAP membership had prepared me to do. I sleep well at night. I stay away from melancholy and grief over lost years and wasted emotion….
But I cannot forget and nor should any pilot. Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point. It could happen again…now or soon or in some far distant sky…..but it could happen.
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Good post Sherm and I can identify with all of that...except for the Convair down the river with one in reverse!!
Was that a 240, 340 or 440 Metropolitan?
And how many bits of it ended up in the river?
Was that a 240, 340 or 440 Metropolitan?
And how many bits of it ended up in the river?
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Thanks, moderators, for reopening this thread. I had one more question, which john_tullamarine has now answered with this statement:
And to my earlier question of what lessons have been learnt, perhaps this answer from Captain Sherm is the most definitive:
If folk are honest .. I suspect that ALL would readily admit that, were the clock wound back with hindsight intact ... it would have been a very different dispute ..
Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point.
Capt Sherm
Words well chosen, but even more, palpably from the heart. I dips me lid.
Don’t ask me to “get over it”. Don’t ask me to forget that some colleagues voted in secret ballots to encourage me to persist….yet had already signed “contracts”…..that Hawke was ready to do, say or spend anything to do his masters’ bidding….and that many….my family included, could not see why I wouldn’t cross a picket line to save my life. I cannot ever forget that. I can never forget pilots who parroted the mantras “What’s the Federation done for me?”….”I made a decision for my family”….I just took my job back”….as though those oft-repeated words from an Abeles script could hide the treachery beneath.
But I work with those people. I have hired them, shared cockpits with them, checked them, counselled them, mentored them. They are humans…they did what they did. I did what I did….what I voted to do….what 20 years of active AFAP membership had prepared me to do. I sleep well at night. I stay away from melancholy and grief over lost years and wasted emotion….
But I cannot forget and nor should any pilot. Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point. It could happen again…now or soon or in some far distant sky…..but it could happen.
But I work with those people. I have hired them, shared cockpits with them, checked them, counselled them, mentored them. They are humans…they did what they did. I did what I did….what I voted to do….what 20 years of active AFAP membership had prepared me to do. I sleep well at night. I stay away from melancholy and grief over lost years and wasted emotion….
But I cannot forget and nor should any pilot. Unity is strength…yet frail. Solidarity is the key….yet our weak point. It could happen again…now or soon or in some far distant sky…..but it could happen.