1989- Pilots dispute 19 years on
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Sat in the jumpseat one day behind one of our true gentleman and WW II captains one day. StormB or FJam was the FO and flying the jet and the approach was bloody frightening until the captain took over. Over a beer a couple of weeks later I mentioned to the said captain that the pucker factor was extreme until he took over. He replied that he didn't really mind the Japs shooting at him - he just didn't want to share a cockpit with that idiot again.
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A legend in his own play lunch box. Mods, you wanted ancedotes?
Anyone remember his "skiing accident", where he was off work (to many people's great relief) for months with a broken foot? The "skiing accident" was actually the result of a stiletto heel, with angry female foot still inside shoe, ground at max force into his instep by a lady who (at last) saw the light.
If there were degrees of "heroism", 'Stormboy' had the top rating with knobs on. Anyone remember where he got the 'Stormboy' name from? Pre-dispute, I believe.
Anyone remember his "skiing accident", where he was off work (to many people's great relief) for months with a broken foot? The "skiing accident" was actually the result of a stiletto heel, with angry female foot still inside shoe, ground at max force into his instep by a lady who (at last) saw the light.
If there were degrees of "heroism", 'Stormboy' had the top rating with knobs on. Anyone remember where he got the 'Stormboy' name from? Pre-dispute, I believe.
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One of the good things about Prune is that nobody is free of ever being caught out! A bit like the Media /Della Bosca/ Neil thingy going on at the moment!
A certain ex Ansett flight dept type who is currently attending, from time to time, a regular retired pilots get to gether chooses not to let on that a member of his family did the "hero" thing some years ago and took a "hero" position with Ansett!
Of course, we all know that Ansett went broke. But how many know that the "hero" is still amongst the flying fraternity on the Sunshine Coast with a well credentialed company?
A certain ex Ansett flight dept type who is currently attending, from time to time, a regular retired pilots get to gether chooses not to let on that a member of his family did the "hero" thing some years ago and took a "hero" position with Ansett!
Of course, we all know that Ansett went broke. But how many know that the "hero" is still amongst the flying fraternity on the Sunshine Coast with a well credentialed company?
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ct2k
I think your post neatly summarises the experience of many families (mine included) post 89.
I sincerely hope your aviation career turns out to be less turbulent than your dad's.
I think your post neatly summarises the experience of many families (mine included) post 89.
I sincerely hope your aviation career turns out to be less turbulent than your dad's.
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Who cares about about figjam, strawberry jam or any other jam! The posts from ct2k and stable approach highlight the forgotten people from the dispute - the families. They were as much a part of it as the pilots were, yet had very little say in what subsequently happened. I applaud ct2k's openess in how the dispute affected his family. It's stories like this that should remind us that there were no winners.
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Before I get to the main thrust of my post today – I want to go back to the start of the thread. Am I going to do anything to mark the 19th year? No, I’m not. The first anniversary in Frankfurt was extremely memorable. I just reckon that 19 years is a non-descript marking point. I think something should be done on the 20th though.
Now for my contribution to thread drift.
I had forgotten that the Hawke Government listed us as Political Dissidents.
For those who think that the phrase is ‘cool’ or imbues some kudos because of its association with romantic characters like Gandhi, Solzhenitsyn and Nelson Mandela – let me remind you that it can be the ‘kiss of death’ on any immigration application unless you are claiming to be a political refugee and living under the threat of physical violence. The Swissair guys found this out.
It is also interesting, as an insight into the mechanics of the dispute, to remember that our Government went to the effort of listing us as Political Dissidents. It is a label that was intended to have International impact. In keeping with so much that the Hawke Government did (with the connivance of the Kelty/Crean ACTU) it was a vengeful thing to do.
Or was it a deliberate strategy – to inhibit our ability to move abroad? As we said we would do, and which many or most of us ultimately had to do.
I think it was a mixture of these things. A post hoc act of revenge on the one hand. And a tactic that applied pressure on us to submit to the authority of the Government, and return to work for Abeles and Murdoch under the auspices of the ACTU because it made going abroad more difficult.
I hope younger people, or curious outsiders, can understand why attempts by some commentators to ‘neatly’ claim that ‘we all resigned and there was no dispute and therefore no sc@$s’ is questionable. Such a clever interpretation is too conveniently sterile. Because it begs the question – if there was no dispute, then why did the Government go to the effort of having us classified as Political Dissidents? Why did our Government reach their hand out across the world to try and smite the career prospects of people who simply resigned a job and moved abroad seeking alternative employment? Because we were Political Dissidents in the eyes of the Hawke Government
And thus – there was a dispute that lasted well beyond the date of our mass resignations. It lasted well beyond the borders of Australia. Accordingly, readers here should be suspicious of people who portray the dispute as miraculously concluding on that fateful night 19 years ago when we all resigned.
Now for my contribution to thread drift.
I had forgotten that the Hawke Government listed us as Political Dissidents.
For those who think that the phrase is ‘cool’ or imbues some kudos because of its association with romantic characters like Gandhi, Solzhenitsyn and Nelson Mandela – let me remind you that it can be the ‘kiss of death’ on any immigration application unless you are claiming to be a political refugee and living under the threat of physical violence. The Swissair guys found this out.
It is also interesting, as an insight into the mechanics of the dispute, to remember that our Government went to the effort of listing us as Political Dissidents. It is a label that was intended to have International impact. In keeping with so much that the Hawke Government did (with the connivance of the Kelty/Crean ACTU) it was a vengeful thing to do.
Or was it a deliberate strategy – to inhibit our ability to move abroad? As we said we would do, and which many or most of us ultimately had to do.
I think it was a mixture of these things. A post hoc act of revenge on the one hand. And a tactic that applied pressure on us to submit to the authority of the Government, and return to work for Abeles and Murdoch under the auspices of the ACTU because it made going abroad more difficult.
I hope younger people, or curious outsiders, can understand why attempts by some commentators to ‘neatly’ claim that ‘we all resigned and there was no dispute and therefore no sc@$s’ is questionable. Such a clever interpretation is too conveniently sterile. Because it begs the question – if there was no dispute, then why did the Government go to the effort of having us classified as Political Dissidents? Why did our Government reach their hand out across the world to try and smite the career prospects of people who simply resigned a job and moved abroad seeking alternative employment? Because we were Political Dissidents in the eyes of the Hawke Government
And thus – there was a dispute that lasted well beyond the date of our mass resignations. It lasted well beyond the borders of Australia. Accordingly, readers here should be suspicious of people who portray the dispute as miraculously concluding on that fateful night 19 years ago when we all resigned.
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we all resigned and there was no dispute and therefore no sc@$s’ is questionable
You claim there was NO strike, only a dispute and then you all resigned.
IF there was NO strike, then obviously there were NO scabs.
ONLY if you were on strike, which apparently you weren't.
Also I have much sympathy with some of the earlier posts about the terrible effects on Families etc, partly because some of us who had no say in the dispute at all have had to go through similar, and do NOT really want to be reminded of it every 5 minutes.
Because of your dispute/resignations I also had to resign from my job of some 28 years, for the same reason as you guys, to save MY house. Through NO fault of mine some subsequent jobs didn't last (Compass 1 and 2), and I found myself having to work Overseas and away from my Family for long periods too, ironically working mainly with ex dispute Pilots.
As others have said, this was devasating for my Family and me too.
So while I can understand your anger and regrets, and none of you have more contempt for Hawke and Abeles than I do, PLEASE get on with Life.
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You're one of us...but you're against us?
I didn't say I was against you, and I am certainly not one of you, assuming you are a Pilot.
Just that this dispute ruined my Life, as it did a lot of others in the Industry at the time, and I am sick of being reminded of it constantly.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Airsupport - do you mean your life was ruined or changed? Given the impending onset of the LCC both the Ansett and TAA model were heading for the tip anyway, things were going to change big time, no way they could have continued indefinitely as they had done prior to 1989.
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'para' I think yr thoughts are more to the point here than most think. yr correct I believe the situation prior to WW3 was not a 4ever model, something would have had to give. I think the pilots dispute was probably a way to break that model in the eyes of the Govt of the day, an opportunity & at the time they (Govt) may not have even been aware of it.
One thing is for sure tho & set in concrete for life, the silver haired fool & the Fat man will go down in history as despicable individuals with a lot of blood on their hands.
CW
One thing is for sure tho & set in concrete for life, the silver haired fool & the Fat man will go down in history as despicable individuals with a lot of blood on their hands.
CW
Airsupport - you keep telling everyone to get over it, but you've made 10 posts to this thread (so far)! 
At least some of the facts of the dispute have been re-stated in the posts - for the benefit of those who might have forgotten or never knew. The heartfelt anecdotal accounts of the terrible impact on individuals and families might be a revelation to younger pilots and others interested in industrial relations and politics.
At least some of the facts of the dispute have been re-stated in the posts - for the benefit of those who might have forgotten or never knew. The heartfelt anecdotal accounts of the terrible impact on individuals and families might be a revelation to younger pilots and others interested in industrial relations and politics.
the Fat man will go down in history....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Abeles
Not quite what you would expect for someone with the post nominal letters 'AC' and 'KBE'...
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I'm sorry to throw a spanner into the works of the "how much we all suffered" comparison scale, but from my children's point of view, they say that in the long run, it was the best thing that ever happened to them. (Note that phrase "in the long run". They wouldn't have said so for the first year or so.)
They became children of the world, were educated in places and in schools they would never have seen, became and remain close friends with people from places in the world they would only have (maybe) heard of from books and television, and have since travelled to and worked in places I very much doubt they would have had the confidence to go to had they remained in suburban Melbourne to complete their education.
As for their Dad... well, ever since Adam thought that apple might taste better than the fruit on offer at the Gaden of Eden free store, when did kids ever appreciate what their Dads went through? Would I have done it differently knowing what I know now? You betcha. Would I have gone back? Don't think so; even after all this time, even with all the grief I had to go through, (and although I consider myself among the very lucky ones in the long run, [there's that phrase again], there has been more than enough grief along the way), I still don't think I could have looked at myself in the mirror to shave had I joined the heroes.
But as I said, in the long run, I was one of the lucky ones. I appreciate that there were many who weren't so lucky.
They became children of the world, were educated in places and in schools they would never have seen, became and remain close friends with people from places in the world they would only have (maybe) heard of from books and television, and have since travelled to and worked in places I very much doubt they would have had the confidence to go to had they remained in suburban Melbourne to complete their education.
As for their Dad... well, ever since Adam thought that apple might taste better than the fruit on offer at the Gaden of Eden free store, when did kids ever appreciate what their Dads went through? Would I have done it differently knowing what I know now? You betcha. Would I have gone back? Don't think so; even after all this time, even with all the grief I had to go through, (and although I consider myself among the very lucky ones in the long run, [there's that phrase again], there has been more than enough grief along the way), I still don't think I could have looked at myself in the mirror to shave had I joined the heroes.
But as I said, in the long run, I was one of the lucky ones. I appreciate that there were many who weren't so lucky.
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interesting reading actually, brief but interesting. Doesn't surprise me in the least of his background, often highly successful people didn't get there by being honest & nice!
His other partner in crime will join him soon no doubt, then too can we read about him, although am sure few will shed tears!
CW
His other partner in crime will join him soon no doubt, then too can we read about him, although am sure few will shed tears!
CW