Merged: Qantas Engineers Set to Strike
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Whilst you blame management, why should someone like a small import company be punished because you are upset with your management? What have they done to you, other than give business to the company you work for?
The employees of Qantas are not taking industrial action because they want to. When was the last time LAME's took significant action at Qantas? They have been pushed to the point that they have no other choice.
Oldmeadow Consulting, Geoff Dixon, and his bunch of thugs have been stealing the pay rises of Qantas employees for years and the employees have finally said ENOUGH!
By the way, why don't you answer the question?
Where do you think Qantas would be now if the APA bid had been successful?
You have an opinion on everything else, let us all hear it on this issue.
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Go away Frozo,
no one cares about a public servant and his text book ideology.
The LAMES actions are completely legal and for you to say that they are immoral just shows the depth of your naievety.
no one cares about a public servant and his text book ideology.
The LAMES actions are completely legal and for you to say that they are immoral just shows the depth of your naievety.
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PAF Community
Pass-a-frozo, I may not care what it is you have to say, but what I do care for is this country and it's rights. The A in Australia was put there by our ancestors taking action, providing our standard of living by doing what we have belatedly got around to emulating. Time to pull our pants up a shout, no more! And as for your grievances due inconvenience, "you'll fly when I'm good and professionally ready", do you get it "when I say", and before you react angrily, I dutifully remind you, that's the law. Take a comfortable seat and relax, with the rest of the passengers, just wait for the message! This action will land itself! On runway 05!
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 19th May 2008 at 10:55.
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PAF. It is a free market.
If you don’t like the service (QF management or lames) are giving you, take your business elsewhere. That’s your right.
That is action that is in your control.
BEST of all...It will make you feel better.
Crying about your problems on pprune will not make you feel better or solve any problems.
If you don’t like the service (QF management or lames) are giving you, take your business elsewhere. That’s your right.
That is action that is in your control.
BEST of all...It will make you feel better.
Crying about your problems on pprune will not make you feel better or solve any problems.
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PAF
Have you seen the quote by GD going back to last year. "Customers and employees do not matter, only the shareholders are important" So if you didn't realise it because you are a customer (or who you are representing) GD doesn't give a hoot. Join the queue as we try to shake the cage of CEO Buffoon of the Year.
I recall a lady ringing up John Laws late last year. She complained that she had booked a Qantas flight to Hawaii, toward the end of the booking period she was pushed by a customer service rep that she needed to pay to get her preferred seats etc. She paid the +$2500 . In less than one week Qantas advised her that the flight was now a Jetstar flight with no business class. There was no mandatory refund and if she wanted to cancel it would set her back $300 as a cancellation fee. Cheap tickets were being sold on that service for less than that.
She was given a full refund after the John Laws intervened. Sounds familiar, she wasn't a shareholder, so who cares, not GD.
GD's God is money. If you get in his road as he tries to accumulate it look out.
I recall a lady ringing up John Laws late last year. She complained that she had booked a Qantas flight to Hawaii, toward the end of the booking period she was pushed by a customer service rep that she needed to pay to get her preferred seats etc. She paid the +$2500 . In less than one week Qantas advised her that the flight was now a Jetstar flight with no business class. There was no mandatory refund and if she wanted to cancel it would set her back $300 as a cancellation fee. Cheap tickets were being sold on that service for less than that.
She was given a full refund after the John Laws intervened. Sounds familiar, she wasn't a shareholder, so who cares, not GD.
GD's God is money. If you get in his road as he tries to accumulate it look out.
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PAF, I have never said I don’t like my job.
I love every minute of it. Even now.
As I’ve said on a previous post,
They have to pay me loads of money if I stay, or if I’m sick or if they want me to leave. I’m happy with all options and I’m loving every minute of it.
How does the add go... "Priceless"
You (on the other hand) are not happy QF are inconveniencing you. Take you business elsewhere. Problem solved.
I love every minute of it. Even now.
As I’ve said on a previous post,
They have to pay me loads of money if I stay, or if I’m sick or if they want me to leave. I’m happy with all options and I’m loving every minute of it.
How does the add go... "Priceless"
You (on the other hand) are not happy QF are inconveniencing you. Take you business elsewhere. Problem solved.
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All
PAF want's it both ways ..... he wants a capitalist system where only managment and sharehoders act in their best interests ..... only workers it seems should be concerned with the inconvenience suffered by customers if workers use there LEGALLY approved means of Protected Industrial Action to advance their cause.
It isn't wrong to disrupt passengers ... Jetstar and QF management seem happy to do it every other day!!
It isn't illegal to strike ... it is protected industrial action.
And Frozo since when has "morality" had anything to do with the capitalist system of looking after ones self .... no one gets paid a "morality bonus"... just ask QF management.
Bleat over ... for now
PAF want's it both ways ..... he wants a capitalist system where only managment and sharehoders act in their best interests ..... only workers it seems should be concerned with the inconvenience suffered by customers if workers use there LEGALLY approved means of Protected Industrial Action to advance their cause.
It isn't wrong to disrupt passengers ... Jetstar and QF management seem happy to do it every other day!!
It isn't illegal to strike ... it is protected industrial action.
And Frozo since when has "morality" had anything to do with the capitalist system of looking after ones self .... no one gets paid a "morality bonus"... just ask QF management.
Bleat over ... for now
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Now look, if you lot are really as serious about this as you make out to be...
why on earth don't you do something about it?
Anybody can talk the talk...
about time you blokes walked the walk!
why on earth don't you do something about it?
Anybody can talk the talk...
about time you blokes walked the walk!
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Agree AMos ....
But methinks it's not a bad strategy to have QF management running around planning around stop works that don't arise ...... wear them down real slowly ....... nothing RASH ..... all those folks (sc*bs) ON CALL will slowly get disgruntled .... all those support staff running around for nothing ..... remember it's a dish best served cold!!
But methinks it's not a bad strategy to have QF management running around planning around stop works that don't arise ...... wear them down real slowly ....... nothing RASH ..... all those folks (sc*bs) ON CALL will slowly get disgruntled .... all those support staff running around for nothing ..... remember it's a dish best served cold!!
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Frozo, You say that taking PIA, ie stopwork meetings is immoral. Actualy it is quite lawful,and as such engineers are working well within the moral guidelines that this countrys laws allow. For all your distain, you have for this action you have never once offered an alternative to the PIA that will bring the company to negotiate. This management offered us 3 % 18 months ago and have refused to negotiate further hourly rate increases.(Dont want to spoil their bonuses no doubt)This is not negotiation. The offer of 1% extra super is the equivelent approx to another 1/2% (of which we wont see untill we are 65 or so.) Given that the Government has mooted the idea of raising super contributions to 10% anyway, this is something that we are likely to get down the line weather GD likes it or not.\
Hats off to the manangement for the hard ball they play,But like any good team they wont stay on the top forever. Theres always another team that will knock them off their perch just when they think they are invincible
Hats off to the manangement for the hard ball they play,But like any good team they wont stay on the top forever. Theres always another team that will knock them off their perch just when they think they are invincible
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Post #257 is a crock .... M&M Poposition I is a crock ..... why have all those debt laden companies been slashed and crashed in the last 6 months ........ you guessed it ... their capital structure!!
That's what QF would have been under ALLCO and friends .... a debt laden bucket unable to refinance its debt ...... really good for share price ... and ongoing surviveability ...
PAF ...... you really need to get into the real world.
That's what QF would have been under ALLCO and friends .... a debt laden bucket unable to refinance its debt ...... really good for share price ... and ongoing surviveability ...
PAF ...... you really need to get into the real world.
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Frodo,
You have no idea what you are talking about and appear way out of your depth. I suspect you are probably still in school or should be given the response to the question about Qantas.
You are definately a troll and should be given no further fodder on this site.
Boycott PAF, he is way out of his depth in here.
You have no idea what you are talking about and appear way out of your depth. I suspect you are probably still in school or should be given the response to the question about Qantas.
You are definately a troll and should be given no further fodder on this site.
Boycott PAF, he is way out of his depth in here.
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PAF said
One problem PAF. That's BS. The people who Qantas have ready to take the jobs are being offered significantly more (100k for 6 months plus 40k incentive?) what the current lads are being offered. It's just GD trying to break another union. Get your facts right fool.
All I have said is this:
- One post mentioned "market price" - if QF's deal was so bad you wouldn't have to worry about people taking your job.
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C’mon Pass-A-Frozo, don’t be so critical of the engineers. They haven’t caused any hardship to anyone.
There is only a ban on overtime on days off. Hasn’t even been a stopwork meeting as yet..........
The ALAEA is not what you’d call a “Militant” association. The last time there was any industrial action was in ’89, by the International LAME’s, over a safety issue. Time before that was in '77 or '78, this time the Domestic LAME’s over a superannuation issue.
There’s been a couple of stopwork meetings in the last 20 years, but we’ve always maintained a skeleton crew on to keep the place running.
No one wants to go on strike; no one I work with knows anything about strikes! It’s all new ground for us.
It’s all to do with Adequate Staffing Levels. We have been running below minimum numbers for a few years now. Even with guys in on overtime each shift, we are still below minimum.............
Now guys are getting sick of doing so much overtime, and it’s getting harder to get them to come in. April last year MEL ACS retrenched quite a number of engineers, although a lot of them are still here waiting to be let go, but cant, because we don’t have the numbers............... A few personal hardships there, as a few have sold their properties here, to retire somewhere else, and now have to find alternate accommodation.
As you can see, QE management don’t really give a stuff about their front line employees.
Management have been flogging us too hard, and for too long, and we want adequate compensation.
We are under staffed, and under resourced as well. Guys are getting sick and fatigued due to the amount of work being carried out by individuals, when we should be working as pairs due to safety issues.
Again, not enough numbers............. Personally, I’m getting sick of doing 6, 7, or 8 hours straight into a 12hr shift without having a break, especially on night shift, when we are doing our most critical work. And most nights we only have enough man hours available to carry out the overnight servicing, without getting in to the called up maintenance. Hope that’s getting done somewhere................
I wonder if the ex Ansett guys are having thoughts of Deja Vu.
We waste so many man hours each shift just towing aircraft around, because there’s not enough concrete around to park them on. The overnight aircraft usually out number the engineers on duty.
So PAF, we haven’t, and will try not to cause hardship to any one. We are just struggling to keep our part of the business viable at the moment.
Regards...............
There is only a ban on overtime on days off. Hasn’t even been a stopwork meeting as yet..........
The ALAEA is not what you’d call a “Militant” association. The last time there was any industrial action was in ’89, by the International LAME’s, over a safety issue. Time before that was in '77 or '78, this time the Domestic LAME’s over a superannuation issue.
There’s been a couple of stopwork meetings in the last 20 years, but we’ve always maintained a skeleton crew on to keep the place running.
No one wants to go on strike; no one I work with knows anything about strikes! It’s all new ground for us.
It’s all to do with Adequate Staffing Levels. We have been running below minimum numbers for a few years now. Even with guys in on overtime each shift, we are still below minimum.............
Now guys are getting sick of doing so much overtime, and it’s getting harder to get them to come in. April last year MEL ACS retrenched quite a number of engineers, although a lot of them are still here waiting to be let go, but cant, because we don’t have the numbers............... A few personal hardships there, as a few have sold their properties here, to retire somewhere else, and now have to find alternate accommodation.
As you can see, QE management don’t really give a stuff about their front line employees.
Management have been flogging us too hard, and for too long, and we want adequate compensation.
We are under staffed, and under resourced as well. Guys are getting sick and fatigued due to the amount of work being carried out by individuals, when we should be working as pairs due to safety issues.
Again, not enough numbers............. Personally, I’m getting sick of doing 6, 7, or 8 hours straight into a 12hr shift without having a break, especially on night shift, when we are doing our most critical work. And most nights we only have enough man hours available to carry out the overnight servicing, without getting in to the called up maintenance. Hope that’s getting done somewhere................
I wonder if the ex Ansett guys are having thoughts of Deja Vu.
We waste so many man hours each shift just towing aircraft around, because there’s not enough concrete around to park them on. The overnight aircraft usually out number the engineers on duty.
So PAF, we haven’t, and will try not to cause hardship to any one. We are just struggling to keep our part of the business viable at the moment.
Regards...............
PAF is a troll pure and simple, with an old economics 101 textbook. His arguments are rubbish although they sound impressive when he drops in the odd words like Modigliani and Miller.
For the record, PAF, we are not addressing the capital structure of Qantas, the reason the APA bid was rejected was because of the Valuation of the company.
As for your line:
If you look at any transport contract in the world, whether by road, rail, ship or air, you are NOT and NEVER HAVE been guaranteed delivery of you or your goods at a particular time at a particular destination.
FURTHERMORE, QF practices yield management (or whatever it is now called) and are perfectly capable of cancelling a scheduled flight, ruining your travel plans, because it doesn't have enough Pax and rescheduling them onto another flight.
Your assertion that striking should be illegal is also nonsensical since the argument between employers and labourers is as old as the hills and the debate would simply be recast to satisfy legal restrictions, for example "going slow" is not strikiing.
Please stop putting up spurious posts that add nothing whatever to the discussion otherwise I think I'm going to call the umpire.
For the record, PAF, we are not addressing the capital structure of Qantas, the reason the APA bid was rejected was because of the Valuation of the company.
As for your line:
* You will not win Public support with *any* kind of IA that results in a cost being realised by people who have nothing to do with your argument
* The utilitarian approach of "I don't mind if my action costs other innocent parties, so long as it costs Qantas" is immoral. Especially where you prevent others from performing the work you would (if you went on strike) refuse to do for that wage. One post mentioned "market price" - if QF's deal was so bad you wouldn't have to worry about people taking your job.
* Taking action where you partially withdraw the Labour you agreed to provide (i.e. not resigning) should be illegal and a breach of contract (4 hour stoppages or full strikes)
* The utilitarian approach of "I don't mind if my action costs other innocent parties, so long as it costs Qantas" is immoral. Especially where you prevent others from performing the work you would (if you went on strike) refuse to do for that wage. One post mentioned "market price" - if QF's deal was so bad you wouldn't have to worry about people taking your job.
* Taking action where you partially withdraw the Labour you agreed to provide (i.e. not resigning) should be illegal and a breach of contract (4 hour stoppages or full strikes)
FURTHERMORE, QF practices yield management (or whatever it is now called) and are perfectly capable of cancelling a scheduled flight, ruining your travel plans, because it doesn't have enough Pax and rescheduling them onto another flight.
Your assertion that striking should be illegal is also nonsensical since the argument between employers and labourers is as old as the hills and the debate would simply be recast to satisfy legal restrictions, for example "going slow" is not strikiing.
Please stop putting up spurious posts that add nothing whatever to the discussion otherwise I think I'm going to call the umpire.
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To all the tool using ladies and lads out there:
I have spoken to a fair lot of our brothers and sisters involved in this PIA and one thing that strikes me, is how much energy everyone has out there. We as a collective should use this to max effect. Too frequently do I read notices by our exec telling us this is OK and we can do that and so on, these people are doing a great job! However with all the bad things we have to deal with everyday, the exec's notices should be saying, "Easy people you are hurting them and be aware of this, don't do that and so on..." Why, if everyone is so disenfranchised, do we still need encouragement to take the fight to the big red Rat? Come on let's make it as hard for them as it is for us, that will bring them around to our way of thinking.
P.S. Don't feed the PAF and the likes by debating him, read his post shake your head say a few
and move on, he will get bored and move to some other thread to piss people off.
P.S. Don't feed the PAF and the likes by debating him, read his post shake your head say a few
and move on, he will get bored and move to some other thread to piss people off.
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I too have spoken to many brothers out there and are becoming nervous with this situation. All is not that rosy, maybe its time for commonsense to prevail. Are we heading down a path we don't want because af 2 idealistic men ( GD and SP )???? I am in for the long haul but it may be detrimental to my future
Grandpa Aerotart
The current CPI figures are what...4.7%?
The CPI does not include housing, food or transport...its a Govt con job.
Real inflation probably hovers around double the CPI.
For decades management and Govt have done an impressive job at restraining wage increases (for everyone else, not themselves) to figures that are less than CPI and WAY less than real inflation.
You guys have been negotiating for 18 months now?
So, if you get this 5%, you're probably 2% behind where you were 18 mths ago just on the CPI and probably 5% worse off than you were 18 mths ago in reality.
And this has been ongoing for decades.
You guys are not fighting for a wage rise you're fighting to minimise the pay cut.
Ignore morons like PAF.
Good luck
The CPI does not include housing, food or transport...its a Govt con job.
Real inflation probably hovers around double the CPI.
For decades management and Govt have done an impressive job at restraining wage increases (for everyone else, not themselves) to figures that are less than CPI and WAY less than real inflation.
You guys have been negotiating for 18 months now?
So, if you get this 5%, you're probably 2% behind where you were 18 mths ago just on the CPI and probably 5% worse off than you were 18 mths ago in reality.
And this has been ongoing for decades.
You guys are not fighting for a wage rise you're fighting to minimise the pay cut.
Ignore morons like PAF.
Good luck