Merged: Qantas Engineers Set to Strike
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Originally posted by Pass-A-Frozo
This is exactly the catalyst QF management require to outsource maintenance.
This is exactly the catalyst QF management require to outsource maintenance.
CATALYST. Good one!
They have what's called an AGENDA to dilute this skilled workforce to the point where there is no option but to send the work off shore.
Get a life PAF. When you have become more enlightened, feel free to comment.
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PAF said
And that is all we want also.
DickCoxson does not agree with that and QF engineers are now the lowest paid in AUS.
So what are you going on about PAF.
PAF says give up and leave if you dont like it,
Does the ADF have the same attitude? I think NOT.
QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT
I'm happy for Engineer's to be paid what the market rate is.
DickCoxson does not agree with that and QF engineers are now the lowest paid in AUS.
So what are you going on about PAF.
PAF says give up and leave if you dont like it,
Does the ADF have the same attitude? I think NOT.
QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 18th May 2008 at 05:02. Reason: romove the word "IDIOT"
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Capt Wally I can appreciate what you say about PAF's baiting tactics but I have a problem with his style. When he is winning a discussion or had valid points he will shout from the rooftops and cry foul if you go the man. If he starts to get bettered or finds he's out of his league, he resorts to the stereotype baiting style. He'll harp on about his learning and throw stats and links about, but when he's confronted with real experience or modern thought he again becomes disingenious with the taunts.
There is a very specific psychology involved with people like our PAF and I don't expect him to listen to my opinion. I understand he has no empathy or a significant social conscience. He believes he's right and no amount of logic or theorising will change that, he thinks what he's read 5 years ago is the way it's done and that's all there is to it. That style of thinking lacks forethought, it's narrow minded and often gets people into trouble , myself included. In the end I just feel sorry for him because of what he misses out on because of they way he writes.
He may have his own reasons to feel and behave this way, I don't know him, just what he writes and the way he does it. He may have good reasons for the anger he seems to spew about. What I do know is he claims to be in the ADF and that's a good thing because that's a service to all of us and he deserves respect for that. As to me not jumping to the bait I just can't seem to stop, I find it fun and it gives me something to think about which may be his intent in the end.
So to the LAME's who've had their thread hijacked by me and others rebutting PAF's ego I'm sorry, and you have my full support for your worthy and fair protected industrial action. Good luck and if my diction is too much, chuck me on your ignore list and my little essays will go away too.
There is a very specific psychology involved with people like our PAF and I don't expect him to listen to my opinion. I understand he has no empathy or a significant social conscience. He believes he's right and no amount of logic or theorising will change that, he thinks what he's read 5 years ago is the way it's done and that's all there is to it. That style of thinking lacks forethought, it's narrow minded and often gets people into trouble , myself included. In the end I just feel sorry for him because of what he misses out on because of they way he writes.
He may have his own reasons to feel and behave this way, I don't know him, just what he writes and the way he does it. He may have good reasons for the anger he seems to spew about. What I do know is he claims to be in the ADF and that's a good thing because that's a service to all of us and he deserves respect for that. As to me not jumping to the bait I just can't seem to stop, I find it fun and it gives me something to think about which may be his intent in the end.
So to the LAME's who've had their thread hijacked by me and others rebutting PAF's ego I'm sorry, and you have my full support for your worthy and fair protected industrial action. Good luck and if my diction is too much, chuck me on your ignore list and my little essays will go away too.
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Thankyou from QF
Just a special thanks to the ALAEA and all Engineering saff for holding off on the Strike action. We were coming up a little short on those strike breakers and we still have to get the numbers distributed around the network. This extra time will certainly help. Thanks
WELL THATS WHAT THEY WILL BE SAYING UP IN M'S OFFICE.
I am sure you could rephrase that
The following appeared on Seek on Friday......... The same mob that offered me a job on 100k+ 6 months ago to standby for action.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers
Heavy Jet Experience
We are currently seeking Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers ( LAME ) with heavy jet experience.
Successful applicants will be rewarded with an attractive salary package to ensure we attract the best. Appropriate training will be offered to successful applicants.
All applications should include work history and experience including appropriate currency of licences. You must be CASA licenced.
For further enquiries can be made to David Kosoric in Sydney on +61 2 9375 2127.
Please apply online at
Just back it off a notch thanks...and enough of the names unless public domain...as in the last part of your post.
Much Ado
WELL THATS WHAT THEY WILL BE SAYING UP IN M'S OFFICE.
I am sure you could rephrase that
The following appeared on Seek on Friday......... The same mob that offered me a job on 100k+ 6 months ago to standby for action.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers
Heavy Jet Experience
We are currently seeking Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers ( LAME ) with heavy jet experience.
Successful applicants will be rewarded with an attractive salary package to ensure we attract the best. Appropriate training will be offered to successful applicants.
All applications should include work history and experience including appropriate currency of licences. You must be CASA licenced.
For further enquiries can be made to David Kosoric in Sydney on +61 2 9375 2127.
Please apply online at
Just back it off a notch thanks...and enough of the names unless public domain...as in the last part of your post.
Much Ado
market rates ?? like virgin blue's market rates of ~$100k per single engine and airframe license. yes please!
how about jetstars... ~$100k per single engine and airframe license ???
yet qantas $1023/week per single engine / airframe license until you wait for 4 years when it goes to $1100, or you get some training..... which is in abundance eh ???
im all for market rates too. i might even buy a new car if i get paid market rates, or go out for dinner for once... although one can dream
how about jetstars... ~$100k per single engine and airframe license ???
yet qantas $1023/week per single engine / airframe license until you wait for 4 years when it goes to $1100, or you get some training..... which is in abundance eh ???
im all for market rates too. i might even buy a new car if i get paid market rates, or go out for dinner for once... although one can dream
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Guys this thread is garnering just a tad more attention than we'd like from the PPrune powers that be.
Can you please just cut out the thread drift...put PAF on your ignore list rather than debate him here...and enough of the scab label...come up with something a little more creative.
Some of you need to take a lot more care with what you post. If you wouldn't say it to the people's concerned face for fear of a libel suit then it certainly doesn't belong here...you're not that anonymous
Nobody wants to see this thread closed/deleted so just calm down or it will be.
To potential posters not directly involved, or the serial thread drifters like captain wally, if you have nothing meaningful to post then dont.
Good luck to all.
Can you please just cut out the thread drift...put PAF on your ignore list rather than debate him here...and enough of the scab label...come up with something a little more creative.
Some of you need to take a lot more care with what you post. If you wouldn't say it to the people's concerned face for fear of a libel suit then it certainly doesn't belong here...you're not that anonymous
Nobody wants to see this thread closed/deleted so just calm down or it will be.
To potential posters not directly involved, or the serial thread drifters like captain wally, if you have nothing meaningful to post then dont.
Good luck to all.
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Much Ado, we are happy to have the attention of the powers that be at pprune, and I for one hope that the wider public are also aware of this.
Closing this thread wil not solve any problems. It may force the debate out into a more public forum, but people will still find a way to express their emotions. Do you not want to be a part of that?
Paf, Capt Wally et al, I think we can handle. And if I ever meet them I will be sure that whatever I say on here, they will hear in person.
Closing this thread wil not solve any problems. It may force the debate out into a more public forum, but people will still find a way to express their emotions. Do you not want to be a part of that?
Paf, Capt Wally et al, I think we can handle. And if I ever meet them I will be sure that whatever I say on here, they will hear in person.
Please add PAF to your ignore list.
What he always talks is rubbish. My guess is that he is a bored indivisual with access to a high school economics textbook and an old one at that.
e.g:
He simply ignores the fact that there is only one way to set market rates. Offer a price and see if people are prepared to trade for the price asked.
If they aren't, well, you had better raise the offer price hadn't you?
What the LAME's are telling Qantas is that their offer is too low - and they are doing it in the most efficient manner by withdrawing part of their their product (labor) temporarily.
That in effect is a "price signal" to QF that if they don't raise their offer the Labor will be withdrawn permanently, and of course, when experience is taken into account, that is a "Lose/lose" result.
As for outsourcing, that is never, ever decided on price alone, since outsourcing inevitably adds to business risk.
What he always talks is rubbish. My guess is that he is a bored indivisual with access to a high school economics textbook and an old one at that.
e.g:
The fact remains. Action like what you discuss effects other people.
I'm happy for Engineer's to be paid what the market rate is. The problem is that a certain collective of people (a.k.a. union) are debating what the market rate is. Union's don't represent engineering staff. They represent the selfish union members. An attempt to demand monopolistic labor pricing. If unions can shut the labor supply down to demand wage increases, then companies should be able to lock out workers and hire others who will happily work for those wages.
Absolutely disgraceful behavior.
This is exactly the catalyst QF management require to outsource maintenance.
I'm happy for Engineer's to be paid what the market rate is. The problem is that a certain collective of people (a.k.a. union) are debating what the market rate is. Union's don't represent engineering staff. They represent the selfish union members. An attempt to demand monopolistic labor pricing. If unions can shut the labor supply down to demand wage increases, then companies should be able to lock out workers and hire others who will happily work for those wages.
Absolutely disgraceful behavior.
This is exactly the catalyst QF management require to outsource maintenance.
He simply ignores the fact that there is only one way to set market rates. Offer a price and see if people are prepared to trade for the price asked.
If they aren't, well, you had better raise the offer price hadn't you?
What the LAME's are telling Qantas is that their offer is too low - and they are doing it in the most efficient manner by withdrawing part of their their product (labor) temporarily.
That in effect is a "price signal" to QF that if they don't raise their offer the Labor will be withdrawn permanently, and of course, when experience is taken into account, that is a "Lose/lose" result.
As for outsourcing, that is never, ever decided on price alone, since outsourcing inevitably adds to business risk.
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PAF and sniggi, I understand that people like you have a different ideology. In a perfect world, it would be as easy as you suggest, but unfortunately, when you work for a greedy corporation like Qantas, the only language they understand is this industrial action and money.
Look at school teachers, years ago in NSW and just recently in VIC. Their pays had slipped way behind what they once were, mainly because of years of minimal pay rises, causing them to slip behind while inflation forged ahead. Finally, these teachers said "Enough is enough" and started to take industrial action. The government finally agreed and now these people will be paid the wage they deserve - no more, no less.
It is not different with the Qantas LAMEs. For years now, they have seen this company make record profits. The whole time, they have received minimal pay rises that were always lower than inflation. A few years back, they even voluntarily took a wage freeze for 18 months, because the company claimed to be in trouble. That year, managers still took healthy bonuses. On top of that, they are working harder and longer than ever, due to staff cuts and tighter flight schedules.
This industrial action has not just come about overnight. And for now, there are only overtime bans. They are not breaking any contract or doing any wilful damage to the company. They are merely agreeing to work their standard hours, but nothing more.
Your posts here are pointless. You have a different view to almost everyone else here and your posts won't achieve anything, apart from making people angry. You cannot change our views, because you do not live our lives.
Look at school teachers, years ago in NSW and just recently in VIC. Their pays had slipped way behind what they once were, mainly because of years of minimal pay rises, causing them to slip behind while inflation forged ahead. Finally, these teachers said "Enough is enough" and started to take industrial action. The government finally agreed and now these people will be paid the wage they deserve - no more, no less.
It is not different with the Qantas LAMEs. For years now, they have seen this company make record profits. The whole time, they have received minimal pay rises that were always lower than inflation. A few years back, they even voluntarily took a wage freeze for 18 months, because the company claimed to be in trouble. That year, managers still took healthy bonuses. On top of that, they are working harder and longer than ever, due to staff cuts and tighter flight schedules.
This industrial action has not just come about overnight. And for now, there are only overtime bans. They are not breaking any contract or doing any wilful damage to the company. They are merely agreeing to work their standard hours, but nothing more.
Your posts here are pointless. You have a different view to almost everyone else here and your posts won't achieve anything, apart from making people angry. You cannot change our views, because you do not live our lives.
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I'm not trying to change your view. I'm simply pointing out where I think you are wrong.
I temporaraly removed you from my ignore list to see what you have to say. You're still true to form. Back to ignore!!! Bye Troll!!
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Thats just too bad for the Qantas brand then isn't it.
Why should't I do something to affect their brand and profit margin as thier actions,try to keep me and mine behind inflation.
I won't loose 1 wink of sleep at all.
Your forgetting it was Dicko and his cronies who inflamed this situation to begin with.
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PAF,
Do you believe that Qantas management has done anything wrong?
Is QE properly staffed i.e. From reading these threads do they have enough bodies on the floor to do the work that is required in an airline of this size.
O/T is a cheaper option than employing full time staff, it seems O/T is the norm to keep things running. Should these engineers continue to sacrifice their families to continue the running of this airline and deliver large profits and management bonuses and not share in the rewards.By simply leaving themselves vulnerable to O/T bans have GD and co. stuffed up?
Is this the very best management crew Qantas can have, Have there been stuff ups in regard to aircraft selection and configuration, and not opening up new routes, have their been price fixing cartels that have cost alot of money?
I have a wise friend in business who always said that any petty larceny or stuff up that one of his workers made was a drop in the ocean compared with the howlers that can be made from above.
How did the 'worlds greatest managers' let it get to this? Sure you've got to feel for those being mucked about, but don't hang it all on the engineers.
Do you believe that Qantas management has done anything wrong?
Is QE properly staffed i.e. From reading these threads do they have enough bodies on the floor to do the work that is required in an airline of this size.
O/T is a cheaper option than employing full time staff, it seems O/T is the norm to keep things running. Should these engineers continue to sacrifice their families to continue the running of this airline and deliver large profits and management bonuses and not share in the rewards.By simply leaving themselves vulnerable to O/T bans have GD and co. stuffed up?
Is this the very best management crew Qantas can have, Have there been stuff ups in regard to aircraft selection and configuration, and not opening up new routes, have their been price fixing cartels that have cost alot of money?
I have a wise friend in business who always said that any petty larceny or stuff up that one of his workers made was a drop in the ocean compared with the howlers that can be made from above.
How did the 'worlds greatest managers' let it get to this? Sure you've got to feel for those being mucked about, but don't hang it all on the engineers.
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Pass-A-Frozo
Whilst you blame management, why should someone like a small import company be punished because you are upset with your management? What have they done to you, other than give business to the company you work for?
Whilst you blame management, why should someone like a small import company be punished because you are upset with your management? What have they done to you, other than give business to the company you work for?
I have done nothing wrong to business's contracted to Qantas. Dixon is the man you should be directing your questions at.
Unless you have worked for Qantas kindly keep your opinions to yourself as you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.