Air Nelson ALPA pilots to strike
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P.S.....
'Simply Inverted' I have to say your point about Air Nelson Federation pilots making a financial contribution (even if it is small in the big context of the lost wages) is very valid.......not so much as being able to make up the financial shortfall but as an act of support....
Fair point!
'Simply Inverted' I have to say your point about Air Nelson Federation pilots making a financial contribution (even if it is small in the big context of the lost wages) is very valid.......not so much as being able to make up the financial shortfall but as an act of support....
Fair point!
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4% over two years is PATHETIC..
..Milk, Cheese, Butter, Petrol, Rents, Chicken, Lamb and Beef have all gone up over twice that in the last year alone!!
..Milk, Cheese, Butter, Petrol, Rents, Chicken, Lamb and Beef have all gone up over twice that in the last year alone!!
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Is this for the Air NSN Fed contract?
Airwork 2, what is it that you do not like about NZALPA?
The Fed website mentions "Also - (For a quick estimate at what can be gained, either through a savings programme or quicker payment of mortgage, when comparing Federation fees to NZALPA fees go to www.sorted.co.nz)"
Why the 15month deal? I guess to then tag on the back of the deal the Air NSN ALPA members have fought bloody hard for!!!!!
The Fed website talks about being non-confrontational. Is easy to do this when most deals are done after ALPA negotiations.
Airwork 2, what is it that you do not like about NZALPA?
The Fed website mentions "Also - (For a quick estimate at what can be gained, either through a savings programme or quicker payment of mortgage, when comparing Federation fees to NZALPA fees go to www.sorted.co.nz)"
Why the 15month deal? I guess to then tag on the back of the deal the Air NSN ALPA members have fought bloody hard for!!!!!
The Fed website talks about being non-confrontational. Is easy to do this when most deals are done after ALPA negotiations.
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Hi 'Kiwilad',
To answer your question about 'what I do not like about ALPA'?
It's not that 'I do not like Alpa' but as I have a choice of industrial representation I preferred the Federation presentation compared to the Alpa one when I joined mainline Air NZ......
That is a personal choice and the things I liked may not be what others like obviously....
I won't list what I liked exactly as that is simply my personal preferences and many will obviously disagree (and some agree)......
Cheers.
To answer your question about 'what I do not like about ALPA'?
It's not that 'I do not like Alpa' but as I have a choice of industrial representation I preferred the Federation presentation compared to the Alpa one when I joined mainline Air NZ......
That is a personal choice and the things I liked may not be what others like obviously....
I won't list what I liked exactly as that is simply my personal preferences and many will obviously disagree (and some agree)......
Cheers.
The Fed website mentions "Also - (For a quick estimate at what can be gained, either through a savings programme or quicker payment of mortgage, when comparing Federation fees to NZALPA fees go to www.sorted.co.nz)"
Regarding the Air Nelson negotiations. If a couple of comments I have heard recently are true, JH deserves to be sacked. I wouldn't be happy of I had a manager carrying on like he has done with these negotiations. He has been deliberately obstructive to a successful outcome.
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Yup, my point exactly. My question to airwork 2, I think it was, why would the mainline feds' sign off on a contract that was at least 2% less than the alpa guys are asking for unless it is just to keep management happy till the other contract is signed off (it is nearing the 12 month mark shortly for the alpa guys) and then a couple of months later you guys see what alpa have recieved and then ask for the same as them, nice and easy, no industrial action...
So basicly the same as Air Nelson then, feds sit back/ accept a crap increase just till the alpa crew sign off on theirs and then you renegotiate your contract at the same rate. Was the Fed set up by the airlines just to devide the work force so as to keep them flying in the times of industrial action/ contract negotiations ? As it seems like they really dont offer anything else...maybe a gimp mask for the xmas party
My question has not been answered... What increase did the Air Nelson Feds' accept ? My guess is that they dont know but wont admit that as they dont want that known as they will then be known as the s@#bs. If I am proven wrong then I will appologise.
Keep going guys as the end of this surely cant be far away.
So basicly the same as Air Nelson then, feds sit back/ accept a crap increase just till the alpa crew sign off on theirs and then you renegotiate your contract at the same rate. Was the Fed set up by the airlines just to devide the work force so as to keep them flying in the times of industrial action/ contract negotiations ? As it seems like they really dont offer anything else...maybe a gimp mask for the xmas party
My question has not been answered... What increase did the Air Nelson Feds' accept ? My guess is that they dont know but wont admit that as they dont want that known as they will then be known as the s@#bs. If I am proven wrong then I will appologise.
Keep going guys as the end of this surely cant be far away.
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Regardless of what the feds agreement is, you are not staying out of this stoush. You, yes you, you scabby b*****rds are working on your days off, and taking holiday then working during that holiday period, in order to undermine the effectiveness of the ALPA strike (and get paid extra and get a day in lieu for working your holiday/days off). You really are the most selfish individuals I have had the misfortune to work with.
Since a number of ALPA pilots at Air Nelson are young people with families, and, with the exception of one person that I know, all you Fed p!£$ks are captains on the top of the scale, or check and training captains, you are directly hurting the young guys in the company. Stay out of the fight. Work your roster and no more. How do you sleep at night?
Since a number of ALPA pilots at Air Nelson are young people with families, and, with the exception of one person that I know, all you Fed p!£$ks are captains on the top of the scale, or check and training captains, you are directly hurting the young guys in the company. Stay out of the fight. Work your roster and no more. How do you sleep at night?
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Yeah, I give that dumb ass at the top in nsn 2-3 months before getting the boot he so very much deserves...
Air nsn have not aparently had a contract negotiation in the last 10 years that has not ended in industrial action... just a thought, how long has the half wit at the top been there ??
Hed a comment today, can, and if so how long would it take air nelson to get back to how they used to be in the good days- pre him.
Air nsn have not aparently had a contract negotiation in the last 10 years that has not ended in industrial action... just a thought, how long has the half wit at the top been there ??
Hed a comment today, can, and if so how long would it take air nelson to get back to how they used to be in the good days- pre him.
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Quite simply, JH needs to go. All good will has gone, as has all/any respect for those at the top of Air NSN. It used to be a great company....but sadly , no more. The resolve of the majority of pilots at Air NSN have had a guts full of everything. Bring on the instrument approaches.....
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You guys are dreaming if you think John Hambleton is going to be sacked. He may deserve it, but since when was that a reason for Air NZ to dismiss any of its managers? Even an anonymous top manager, caught in flagrante delicto with a cleaner, managed to have her sacked after being "sentenced" to a weeks' suspension! No, these guys operate to another set of rules than us. Rather than beat ourselves up about it, flapping our gums and beating keyboards, we need to set ourselves another path. One that will get us to the same destination, of course, but in an 'outflanking' way. The full-frontal assaults will never succeed against a billion-dollar company (and its impeccable PR machine) that does not need to adhere to the same set of rules that everyone else does.
Some of John Hambleton's work that I’ve seen reminds me of a 1954 book written by American author Darrell Huff. Entitled How To Lie With Statistics Huff's book is more comedy than anything else, but is an accurate treatise nevertheless on how feeble minds can be swayed dramatically by the most innocuous use of numbers. He shows us how to make any set of numbers mean absolutely anything – even ascribing the opposite meaning to a set of numbers than is already understood – and making that version more believable. We know this today as ‘spin,’ of course, but ‘spin’ is easily dismissed – not so with numbers. It was Benjamin Disraeli that is supposed to have said: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” And surely this is what he meant.
John Hambleton may end up resigning, of course. He may stay, much to everyone’s disgust. He may have a brain explosion (read: aneurysm) and get carried out feet first. But no matter what his method of demise, I imagine that the damage he has done to employer-employee relations will take years to correct. But, once again, AirNZ is not a company that holds such relationships in high importance. Otherwise, John Hambleton would have been sacked long ago. His treatment of the engineers at Air Nelson, and of Rob Fyfe’s treatment of the AirNZ engineers springs to mind.
Now our mainline talks are getting underway. Rest assured that John Hambleton is attempting to show our managers that where Peter O’Regan failed with the Mt Cook guys, he will succeed with the Air Nelson guys. His overinflated ego will not allow him to let this one go. Like a schoolyard bully, he will not stop - at least not of his own accord.
So, how did facilitation go? Anyone?
Some of John Hambleton's work that I’ve seen reminds me of a 1954 book written by American author Darrell Huff. Entitled How To Lie With Statistics Huff's book is more comedy than anything else, but is an accurate treatise nevertheless on how feeble minds can be swayed dramatically by the most innocuous use of numbers. He shows us how to make any set of numbers mean absolutely anything – even ascribing the opposite meaning to a set of numbers than is already understood – and making that version more believable. We know this today as ‘spin,’ of course, but ‘spin’ is easily dismissed – not so with numbers. It was Benjamin Disraeli that is supposed to have said: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” And surely this is what he meant.
John Hambleton may end up resigning, of course. He may stay, much to everyone’s disgust. He may have a brain explosion (read: aneurysm) and get carried out feet first. But no matter what his method of demise, I imagine that the damage he has done to employer-employee relations will take years to correct. But, once again, AirNZ is not a company that holds such relationships in high importance. Otherwise, John Hambleton would have been sacked long ago. His treatment of the engineers at Air Nelson, and of Rob Fyfe’s treatment of the AirNZ engineers springs to mind.
Now our mainline talks are getting underway. Rest assured that John Hambleton is attempting to show our managers that where Peter O’Regan failed with the Mt Cook guys, he will succeed with the Air Nelson guys. His overinflated ego will not allow him to let this one go. Like a schoolyard bully, he will not stop - at least not of his own accord.
So, how did facilitation go? Anyone?
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Could the guys/girls at Air Nsn bring in a vote of no confidence, or anyone who is willing slap a personal grievance claim against him for making their days at work far to stresful which has had an impact on their emotive state. If all did it they would surely have to listen as they cant even fob off one of them. He would have a bit of explaining to do then wouldnt he, plus when the media got hold of it and as usual blow it out of all proportion...
NICE !!!!
Surely this shyt fight cant last for much longer...
Has anyone pointed out to Fyfe that he would not have needed to have a wage freeze if JH had signed off the contract, but seeing as he has they could go for another couple of months and use up the funds that were allocated to the top's for their increases...
NICE !!!!
Surely this shyt fight cant last for much longer...
Has anyone pointed out to Fyfe that he would not have needed to have a wage freeze if JH had signed off the contract, but seeing as he has they could go for another couple of months and use up the funds that were allocated to the top's for their increases...
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Spoken like a true management spy...
If you are new, are you a member of alpa ?
What they have done so far is 90 % of it and shown that management cant bully them into less conditions than they currently have relative to inflation...If you had seen the progress thus far then you would have seen that the stalling has been thru the management NOT via the alpa negotiators.
If you are new to the company then I suggest that you talk to one of your negotiators or alpa for copies of the work done so far and to say that they have done nothing is pretty one-eyed and you would want to rethink that comment before you get put in your place by the alpa crews that you may fly with.
Again tho, the tone of your post smells of a non alpa member but even they know what has been done so I come back to the management sniffing and trying to get the shyt up the guys from another angle. If I am wrong then I am sorry.
If you are new, are you a member of alpa ?
What they have done so far is 90 % of it and shown that management cant bully them into less conditions than they currently have relative to inflation...If you had seen the progress thus far then you would have seen that the stalling has been thru the management NOT via the alpa negotiators.
If you are new to the company then I suggest that you talk to one of your negotiators or alpa for copies of the work done so far and to say that they have done nothing is pretty one-eyed and you would want to rethink that comment before you get put in your place by the alpa crews that you may fly with.
Again tho, the tone of your post smells of a non alpa member but even they know what has been done so I come back to the management sniffing and trying to get the shyt up the guys from another angle. If I am wrong then I am sorry.
Last edited by always inverted; 29th Jul 2008 at 20:23.
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It will be a long haul - hang on in guys
They will use their mighty clobbering machine in any way possible to try and dilute your actions. STICK WITH IT. The previous industrial dispute/work to rule of Mt Cook crew took approximately a year or so to resolve due to the obstinate nature of management. The cash that was invested into that to just try and break the guys was obscene, they couldn't see the wood for the trees. But as a result of putting in the hard yards and sticking with it day in and day out, it was eventually resolved to a reasonable level of satisfaction to the crews. But it would not have been if they hadn't have hung on in there for the whole time. It will take time, but keep up a good resolve no matter what - and tell yourselves that regardless of how long this takes you are going to do it - and with the passage of time you will get even stronger. Hope it's resolved soon for you all. 
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Yes it will work, it's the ways it's always worked since adam was a cowboy.
If you don't have any faith in the ALPA guys then perhaps you won't mind going into John's office and negotiating your own contract? He will laugh at you.
The conditions you enjoy today in your new job have been hard fought for by those that have gone before you. It is now up to you to preserve and enhance the conditions for those that will come behind you, got any mates in GA?
Your negotiators have a tough job and are only doing what you, and your fellow workmates have asked them to negotiate on your behalf, and it's not a big ask by the way.
Give your negotiators your support and encouragement, and talk to them if there is something you are not happy with.
Above all else, don't be a softc0ck!
If you don't have any faith in the ALPA guys then perhaps you won't mind going into John's office and negotiating your own contract? He will laugh at you.
The conditions you enjoy today in your new job have been hard fought for by those that have gone before you. It is now up to you to preserve and enhance the conditions for those that will come behind you, got any mates in GA?
Your negotiators have a tough job and are only doing what you, and your fellow workmates have asked them to negotiate on your behalf, and it's not a big ask by the way.
Give your negotiators your support and encouragement, and talk to them if there is something you are not happy with.
Above all else, don't be a softc0ck!
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Split Flap I fully agree with what you said.
Okay, as I said previously, if you are not in management then I would appologise...Sorry.
The pay that you are on now is better than it used to be (at Air NSN), yes ?? So that would mean that you are experiencing the benifits of a CEA ,as fought hard for by the alpa crew negotiators...
You still say what has it done so far ?
If it was up to management them you would probably be paid similar to the guys over at Eagle- or less.
So are you standing strong with the alpa guys fighting for YOU to have better conditions and pay over the next couple of years or are you a SCAB that is sitting on their arse and waiting for the alpa guys to have their contract signed off and then walk in and have the same conditions as them while contributing NOTHING to the cause. Also getting extra pay to work while the guys are striking.
Either way you ARE BENIFITING from the alpa negotiations, yes ???
Although, if you feel that you can contribute, get up off you arse and offer to help in any way possible.
Okay, as I said previously, if you are not in management then I would appologise...Sorry.
The pay that you are on now is better than it used to be (at Air NSN), yes ?? So that would mean that you are experiencing the benifits of a CEA ,as fought hard for by the alpa crew negotiators...
You still say what has it done so far ?
If it was up to management them you would probably be paid similar to the guys over at Eagle- or less.
So are you standing strong with the alpa guys fighting for YOU to have better conditions and pay over the next couple of years or are you a SCAB that is sitting on their arse and waiting for the alpa guys to have their contract signed off and then walk in and have the same conditions as them while contributing NOTHING to the cause. Also getting extra pay to work while the guys are striking.
Either way you ARE BENIFITING from the alpa negotiations, yes ???
Although, if you feel that you can contribute, get up off you arse and offer to help in any way possible.
Last edited by always inverted; 30th Jul 2008 at 21:47.