Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!
Join Date: Feb 2008
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'BTN' I hear what you say but I make no bones about getting ahead in this world, Wages, T&C's are very important to me, if youy can find one other that says it's not then their simply not of this world or human. We are dead an awful long time & I look after the only person that's most important, "ME" ! The world is pretty much stuffed as you say & I'm sorry if yr not as fortunate as us but we can blame no single person. Human nature in it's very nature is distructive and very greedy (I'm one of them) & I don't want to go down with the ship just yet!
People talk about leaving this country to our children a better place. BS, it was left like it is today from day one !
Now let's get on with it & rought the land as much as possible as we are now doing!
F
People talk about leaving this country to our children a better place. BS, it was left like it is today from day one !Now let's get on with it & rought the land as much as possible as we are now doing!
F
Quote:
"Sure everyone is entitled to fair pay conditions etc... BUT... People place way too much importance on it."
You're kidding right!
The very reason we are in this crisis today is due to years of management efforts to subdue pay and conditions. Do we live in the greatest country in the world? Absolutely. do I for one feel blessed for living the dream? Every day.
The fact is however that bills have to be paid, children have to be clothed and fed, and I don't think it unreasonable that people be properly remunerated for their years of sacrifices. Especially in times when skills are in short supply! Is it any wonder that people jump ship when their company continues to treat them as if they are a disposable commodity.
The real issue here is the very survival of Regional aviation as we know it. Make no mistake, Mr Kumar and his ilk are presiding over a corporate f#ck up! When the dust settles someone is going to write a thesis on all of this, and those who read it will wonder as to how they got something so simple so wrong!
"Sure everyone is entitled to fair pay conditions etc... BUT... People place way too much importance on it."
You're kidding right!
The very reason we are in this crisis today is due to years of management efforts to subdue pay and conditions. Do we live in the greatest country in the world? Absolutely. do I for one feel blessed for living the dream? Every day.
The fact is however that bills have to be paid, children have to be clothed and fed, and I don't think it unreasonable that people be properly remunerated for their years of sacrifices. Especially in times when skills are in short supply! Is it any wonder that people jump ship when their company continues to treat them as if they are a disposable commodity.
The real issue here is the very survival of Regional aviation as we know it. Make no mistake, Mr Kumar and his ilk are presiding over a corporate f#ck up! When the dust settles someone is going to write a thesis on all of this, and those who read it will wonder as to how they got something so simple so wrong!
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Bushy, just look around at the financial "Masters Of The Universe" who knew it all too. In the space of just 3 months they have gone from hero to nothing.
History will be the final arbiter, but, yes they could be that stupid.
History will be the final arbiter, but, yes they could be that stupid.
BTN
You seem to know little about Africa. The misery is caused by the dictators robbing the country, including their own grandmothers so they can have billions in Swiss banks. Africa has more resources than the rest of the world put together.
Rant over... back to topic
You seem to know little about Africa. The misery is caused by the dictators robbing the country, including their own grandmothers so they can have billions in Swiss banks. Africa has more resources than the rest of the world put together.
Rant over... back to topic
Join Date: Feb 2001
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'by the numbers:I understand your frustration and there have been many times when I have felt like venting my anger - I guess I am just a little old fashioned and generally manage to hold it back.
'Bushy: I don't think they are all stupid, just driven by self interest - but aren't we all to one degree or another? At the risk of sounding like an apologist for management, which I most certainly am not, may I suggest that there is probably more empathy toward the pilots' cause from some QL managers than they are given credit for. My feeling is that the problems are being generated at a much higher level (the upper eschalons of 'Q' management) and that those who would want to help us have been rendered impotent in this regard. I'm sure that some are hanging on in the hope that they may be able to exert some favourable influence, rather than step aside and be replaced by someone who is even less sympathetic - call me naive or idealistic if you like but:'Better The Devil You Know!"
'Bushy: I don't think they are all stupid, just driven by self interest - but aren't we all to one degree or another? At the risk of sounding like an apologist for management, which I most certainly am not, may I suggest that there is probably more empathy toward the pilots' cause from some QL managers than they are given credit for. My feeling is that the problems are being generated at a much higher level (the upper eschalons of 'Q' management) and that those who would want to help us have been rendered impotent in this regard. I'm sure that some are hanging on in the hope that they may be able to exert some favourable influence, rather than step aside and be replaced by someone who is even less sympathetic - call me naive or idealistic if you like but:'Better The Devil You Know!"
Last edited by TROJAN764; 18th Mar 2008 at 08:54. Reason: Trying to fix the bold type
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Kanga,
Yes, I didn't really mean to make such a bold statement
- must have touched something I shouldn't (my wife is always accusing me of that) then didn't know how to fix it. Wasn't pretending to be the 'font of all wisdom' though, just trying to provoke some rational thought.
Yes, I didn't really mean to make such a bold statement
- must have touched something I shouldn't (my wife is always accusing me of that) then didn't know how to fix it. Wasn't pretending to be the 'font of all wisdom' though, just trying to provoke some rational thought.
I'm not talking about being an aussie (or any other westerner) and going there to fly. I’m talking about those that are born there
I've asked a alot of african pilots if they would move to Oz for the money QL/REX was offering and most of them said NO the money and lifestyle would be a big step down from what they were used to. I'm just relaying the facts not trying to wind you up.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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flyhardmo... not that I really am that interested in explaining myself anymore but i believe you have misunderstood my point. I am not talking about pilots at all. I am talking about people that are born in places in Africa (DR Congo or Uganda) or anywhere else...
I am essentially saying that being born in eg. Australia is very lucky. Its just that people are complaining about things that, i grant are annoying... below avg salary, t&c's.... But there is just TOO much complaining. It's not the end of the world. I see in this thread and others the same people complaining about the same thing over and over again!
I am NOT talking about expats or locals flying rich people around to safari camps and then moving on to a regional. That is not half bad... I realise life is not easy there but can understand that pilots would rather live there and get paid more than at home with Qlink or Rex. But try living in Congo between about 1995-2005 and I think youd settle for 15grand a year and a rusty pushbike to be anywhere else.
I am essentially saying that being born in eg. Australia is very lucky. Its just that people are complaining about things that, i grant are annoying... below avg salary, t&c's.... But there is just TOO much complaining. It's not the end of the world. I see in this thread and others the same people complaining about the same thing over and over again!
I am NOT talking about expats or locals flying rich people around to safari camps and then moving on to a regional. That is not half bad... I realise life is not easy there but can understand that pilots would rather live there and get paid more than at home with Qlink or Rex. But try living in Congo between about 1995-2005 and I think youd settle for 15grand a year and a rusty pushbike to be anywhere else.
lyhardmo... not that I really am that interested in explaining myself anymore but i believe you have misunderstood my point. I am not talking about pilots at all.
People complain because they can. Its not easy living in Australia anymore as it was even 5yrs ago. 60k was considered pretty descent back then. Nowadays its a different kettle of fish. I didn't put all of my guts into flying for the money. I love flying butI also love to live and not worry if my place would be re-possessed by the bank. Or I could move to congo, live in a mud hut and ride a rusty bike with a mercedes badge to the airport to fly a rust antanov.
Back to the thread. Ask any manager to take the same wage, work the same number of duty hours and not complain.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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This pilot shortage bleating is a joke!!!!
I can't believe that "studies" are being conducted to remedy the situation!
To anyone who has recruited pilots for the past 20 years. Here is a solution to your dire problem of attracting pilots.
Take a good hard look at how you have treated pilots (or any other abundant staff for that matter) for the past 20 years. Consider this treatment and DO EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.
Paying poorly.................................Pay better
Crap rosters..................................Good rosters
No response to applications............. Respond to your wannabees
Dangerous machines........................Good machines
Shafting........................................No shafting!
No bullsh&t studies or management love-ins required. No headscratching. No puzzled, lost gaze when asked by shareholders "how are you going to attract pilots?"
How do you think the IT industry has managed to attract so many people to spend a lifetime staring at a screen, nursing piles and stomach ulcers? Money and lifestyle!
Where's that brown dog?
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbb
I can't believe that "studies" are being conducted to remedy the situation!
To anyone who has recruited pilots for the past 20 years. Here is a solution to your dire problem of attracting pilots.
Take a good hard look at how you have treated pilots (or any other abundant staff for that matter) for the past 20 years. Consider this treatment and DO EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.
Paying poorly.................................Pay better
Crap rosters..................................Good rosters
No response to applications............. Respond to your wannabees
Dangerous machines........................Good machines
Shafting........................................No shafting!
No bullsh&t studies or management love-ins required. No headscratching. No puzzled, lost gaze when asked by shareholders "how are you going to attract pilots?"
How do you think the IT industry has managed to attract so many people to spend a lifetime staring at a screen, nursing piles and stomach ulcers? Money and lifestyle!
Where's that brown dog?
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbb
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Mr Buzzy,
if pilots cost more, less people could afford to travel, airfares would increase, airlines would make less profit, the sky would fall in, it would be the end of the world,
just ask 'aircraft'
if pilots cost more, less people could afford to travel, airfares would increase, airlines would make less profit, the sky would fall in, it would be the end of the world,
just ask 'aircraft'
Join Date: Nov 2004
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But don't worry people, according to our esteemed management with the introduction of the Pilot Cadetship Programme, things will be back on track within a couple of months.
Yeah right.
BBBBBBBWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah right.
BBBBBBBWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Hey Hey Norma!
hope all is well in your world. Chat soon about a few fried Khuli Loaches and a couple of Chateau Fuentes!
bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
hope all is well in your world. Chat soon about a few fried Khuli Loaches and a couple of Chateau Fuentes!
bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Hey Buzzy,
I'll bring the Blue Rams and the Macanudu Hampton Courts. Sounds like a date.
Cheers mate
Norma.
PS caught up with Big Deano the other day. He's coming home soon.
I'll bring the Blue Rams and the Macanudu Hampton Courts. Sounds like a date.
Cheers mate
Norma.
PS caught up with Big Deano the other day. He's coming home soon.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Recruiting Outside Aus.
A couple off guys in South Africa have had calls from Q-link recently offering jobs. Only F.O. positions at this stage, but sounds like DEC will become a reality in about 6 months.