Pilots stabbed whilst airborne
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Quote....."Anything to catch them out... please add to the list"
......carry an H&K 40M SW....Like I,m allowed to do and shoot the barstard(s)
(of course there will be soft-cocks out there opposed to these measures,......cant please everyone)join the real world boys....it will and can only get worse...kiwi is no different from most of the aviation world...many would like to think is
nice to see the boys came through this sagarso alive......
......carry an H&K 40M SW....Like I,m allowed to do and shoot the barstard(s)
(of course there will be soft-cocks out there opposed to these measures,......cant please everyone)join the real world boys....it will and can only get worse...kiwi is no different from most of the aviation world...many would like to think is
nice to see the boys came through this sagarso alive......
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This has got nothing to do with Immigration policies. The Oklahoma bombing was done by an American. The London Underground bombings were done by people who were born in the UK.
Did anyone watch the show on Prime last night at 10 30 pm about the Madrid Train bombings? An Urban Railway system is more dangerous than the airline system, because you cannot X Ray everyone using every station on the network. Even Sydney Airport handles a tiny number of people compared with the Sydney rail network. How do you check every one on the rail network who has a mobile phone or mp3 player?
Security is done on the risk likelihood of a possible offender getting into the system at a small airport. 9/11 was caused by people who started their flights at small regional air fields, so they found a way in there. If you give a small airliner a secure cockpit door, the bad person can still carry a bomb on board, or shoot a gun in the cabin. Not just immigrants. An American shot down a PSA 146 with a gun in the cabin.
Is the security worth it on a small plane? Isn't that why we pay the security levy when we buy a ticket? If Blenheim Airport has to install X Ray equipment and passengers have to submit to having their cabin bag searched, at least now they know why the job has to be done, and why the cost has to be paid.
Did anyone watch the show on Prime last night at 10 30 pm about the Madrid Train bombings? An Urban Railway system is more dangerous than the airline system, because you cannot X Ray everyone using every station on the network. Even Sydney Airport handles a tiny number of people compared with the Sydney rail network. How do you check every one on the rail network who has a mobile phone or mp3 player?
Security is done on the risk likelihood of a possible offender getting into the system at a small airport. 9/11 was caused by people who started their flights at small regional air fields, so they found a way in there. If you give a small airliner a secure cockpit door, the bad person can still carry a bomb on board, or shoot a gun in the cabin. Not just immigrants. An American shot down a PSA 146 with a gun in the cabin.
Is the security worth it on a small plane? Isn't that why we pay the security levy when we buy a ticket? If Blenheim Airport has to install X Ray equipment and passengers have to submit to having their cabin bag searched, at least now they know why the job has to be done, and why the cost has to be paid.
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Lots of media beat up over this incident. Shock horror over no security screening for commuter flights and so on. As has already been pointed out any nutter can walk onto a bus, ferry or into your local supermarket/cafe and cause mass casualties.
The problem is that so many people already have an irrational fear of flying and any incident such as this simply feeds that fear. The media loves to feed fear too - it's how they generate readership (or viewers/listeners) and therefore advertising revenue.
I'm not saying that nothing should change as a result of this incident but a balanced response is needed.
As to the bigots going on about racial profiling and immigration I ask you this - what was the nationality and skin colour of the person who attempted to hijack a B717 in Australia a few years back? Race has nothing to do with it - especially when it comes to mentally disturbed people.
The problem is that so many people already have an irrational fear of flying and any incident such as this simply feeds that fear. The media loves to feed fear too - it's how they generate readership (or viewers/listeners) and therefore advertising revenue.
I'm not saying that nothing should change as a result of this incident but a balanced response is needed.
As to the bigots going on about racial profiling and immigration I ask you this - what was the nationality and skin colour of the person who attempted to hijack a B717 in Australia a few years back? Race has nothing to do with it - especially when it comes to mentally disturbed people.
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Quote..."Is the security worth it on a small plane? Isn't that why we pay the security levy when we buy a ticket. If Blenheim Airport has to install X Ray equipment and passengers have to submit to having their cabin bag searched, at least now they know why the job has to been done, and why the cost has to be paid."""
Alan...would agree with that statement wholeheartedly......shame we have to have incidents like this to further your point......
...but even the best security,will not catch these clowns,they know this.....and the policy of arming pilots ,like myself...... is proof that the best security measures dont always work,thats why we have this programme....Ive debated this issue before,and many disagree with my stand ......so be it,and well argue it until the cows come home.....but the cockpit must be protected at all costs.....there are other ways for sure,but they are not in place...so what do you do in the meantime......
alan ...was in Wgtn last week for the 7,s...had a lovely time(from what I remember)
Alan...would agree with that statement wholeheartedly......shame we have to have incidents like this to further your point......
...but even the best security,will not catch these clowns,they know this.....and the policy of arming pilots ,like myself...... is proof that the best security measures dont always work,thats why we have this programme....Ive debated this issue before,and many disagree with my stand ......so be it,and well argue it until the cows come home.....but the cockpit must be protected at all costs.....there are other ways for sure,but they are not in place...so what do you do in the meantime......
alan ...was in Wgtn last week for the 7,s...had a lovely time(from what I remember)
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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......carry an H&K 40M SW....
The average Police Officer here in Australia carries a side arm and most of them could'nt hit, as my late Father used to say,
''A bull's arse with a handfull of wheat''
simply because they don't have sufficient training and practice with the pistol or revolver that they are issued.
Remember that a bullet once fired has to stop somewhere, and if the target is missed.........
For the record; I am a member of a Pistol Club and a regular shooter.
Last edited by Pinky the pilot; 10th Feb 2008 at 03:50. Reason: Punctuation
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I agree the cockpit has to be safe at all times, but those security measures are like the security screens in a Bank - the Staff are safe, but customers look out for themselves.
We spent all our time on the other thread discussing small jets, and saying that airports where the planes are less than 90 seats do not need the upgraded security measures. If my (pretend) airline was in a position to operate 70 seater jets or Q400s, I think I would want the passengers to go through the screening that people in big planes put up with. In small towns, do the banks or medical facilities have reduced security because they think a smaller town is a lower risk?
We spent all our time on the other thread discussing small jets, and saying that airports where the planes are less than 90 seats do not need the upgraded security measures. If my (pretend) airline was in a position to operate 70 seater jets or Q400s, I think I would want the passengers to go through the screening that people in big planes put up with. In small towns, do the banks or medical facilities have reduced security because they think a smaller town is a lower risk?
One way to control the pax - handcuff them all to their seats before take off.
More realisticly, I think just do as some are attempting to do - educate the public that traveling on these small comuters is no more dangerous then other forms of transport. There is a risk, but thats life.
Safety costs money - How safe do you want to be, or, how much are you prepared to pay to travel.
Increased pre boarding checks would help, but how would you find a carbon fibre stabing knife ? - doesnt show up in metal detecters.
More realisticly, I think just do as some are attempting to do - educate the public that traveling on these small comuters is no more dangerous then other forms of transport. There is a risk, but thats life.
Safety costs money - How safe do you want to be, or, how much are you prepared to pay to travel.
Increased pre boarding checks would help, but how would you find a carbon fibre stabing knife ? - doesnt show up in metal detecters.
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Weekend Herald ^&$* up
Reading the weekend herald yesterday.....
FRONT PAGE... "(The plane was) an Eagle Air Beechcraft 19-Seater".....
SAME PAPER A FEW PAGES IN
Photo of The jet-stream with Air Nationals livery clearly visible for all to see...
We trust these people to bring us up to date and accurate news from around the world and they cant even get these details correct...? But this is the same thing happening all the time, media making the mistakes...How about they get a reliable aviation source....arrghhhhh end rant.
PO
FRONT PAGE... "(The plane was) an Eagle Air Beechcraft 19-Seater".....
SAME PAPER A FEW PAGES IN
Photo of The jet-stream with Air Nationals livery clearly visible for all to see...
We trust these people to bring us up to date and accurate news from around the world and they cant even get these details correct...? But this is the same thing happening all the time, media making the mistakes...How about they get a reliable aviation source....arrghhhhh end rant.
PO
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Thats the media for you. I remember a long time ago being called at work from a reporter in Wellington when a plane had a$$ed up in Rotorua. The guy stated he was from CAA and wanted me to go to the airport (I was out and the phone was transfered to my cell) to find out details. Naturally I told the guy to call the fire hall and it was only then he told me he actually worked for the Herald...my trust of the media dropped that day.
At any rate (4%) does anyone know who the crew were yet? Im over in Canada and all they have said it "something happened".
At any rate (4%) does anyone know who the crew were yet? Im over in Canada and all they have said it "something happened".
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Friday's fracas reminded me of this one a few years ago: http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...icle880632.ece - startling similarities (and I think Norway introduced screening for regional flights the following year?)
I think that's spot on, Flying Binghi. There has to be a sensible threshold based on a realistic assessment of the risk. Post-9/11 security measures have been geared towards preventing catastrophic terrorist incidents (hijack, sabotage, etc), because that's where the worst case scenarios are. You can do that, probably to a not insignificant extent I imagine, based on experience, intelligence and investigations as far as the organised groups go, and Aus & NZ have set their security thresholds according to their respective Govt assessments, I would suppose. But no one can predict what a lone nutter is going to do.
At least the early signs are that there shouldn't be a knee-jerk reaction in response to this incident. Though if it had ended differently...
Maybe this is the way to go after all:
More realisticly, I think just do as some are attempting to do - educate the public that traveling on these small comuters is no more dangerous then other forms of transport. There is a risk, but thats life.
Safety costs money - How safe do you want to be, or, how much are you prepared to pay to travel.
Safety costs money - How safe do you want to be, or, how much are you prepared to pay to travel.
At least the early signs are that there shouldn't be a knee-jerk reaction in response to this incident. Though if it had ended differently...
Maybe this is the way to go after all:
Nice photo 
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pinky mate.....couldnt agree more,no argument here,....believe me mate,I,m only doing it because we are running into brick walls when it comes to solving this dilemma and I refuse to let happen to me what happened to the boys on 911........
....but the programme is running well and the use of FAM,,s is working,they are a deterent,and most of us take the time "sharpen our skills"......there is of course a huge chance of not finding ones target....dont argue that at all,but until we start coming up with "meaningful solutions"....Ill go with the solution(that suits my situation)as of now......mate!!! I,m as pro-active about finding solutions as the next joker......but look at whats at stake here.....endless arguments for sure
......my moneys on the fact that if you are on my aircraft and somebody tries to take it away for any reason,you can be assured that I will do my best ,at all costs ,not to let it happen........dont know what else to tell you.
by the way......I noted your note,and most of us can find the side of a barn door as well
....but the programme is running well and the use of FAM,,s is working,they are a deterent,and most of us take the time "sharpen our skills"......there is of course a huge chance of not finding ones target....dont argue that at all,but until we start coming up with "meaningful solutions"....Ill go with the solution(that suits my situation)as of now......mate!!! I,m as pro-active about finding solutions as the next joker......but look at whats at stake here.....endless arguments for sure
......my moneys on the fact that if you are on my aircraft and somebody tries to take it away for any reason,you can be assured that I will do my best ,at all costs ,not to let it happen........dont know what else to tell you.
by the way......I noted your note,and most of us can find the side of a barn door as well
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I think it's a good precautionary measurements to have at least one gun in the cockpit , as far as real bullets i don't think it's a good idea they might get into deeper **** if the bullet misses so rubber bullets or whatever they are called, Or Taser guns or something to incapacitate them.
Every airplane should have a small box labeled (Anti - terrorist tool kit) it should contain a gun a taser and handcuffs .
Every airplane should have a small box labeled (Anti - terrorist tool kit) it should contain a gun a taser and handcuffs .
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Insecurity
Here in Oz, in many of the capital city airports you go through security first and then can hit the shops for your tourist souvenirs. There are so many objects that can be turned into sharp weapons that it ain't funny. A few years back I saw diecast metal model aeroplanes (including a nice pointy Concorde) for sale at Perth airport, right next to the boarding lounges. They are not serious about security; probably far too expensive. Put a door on the cockpit so then at least the crew will protected from a knife attack and the aircraft can return to Terra Firma with most of the passengers alive.
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van demon....good point mate!!!
we have now started giving 1st class pax,steal knives with their meals,instead of the plastic ones that were used.......talk about bonehead mgt skills.....these clowns never cease to amaze me.
handed this article(stabbing incident) into our mgt yesterday,cant wait for their reply.....
we have now started giving 1st class pax,steal knives with their meals,instead of the plastic ones that were used.......talk about bonehead mgt skills.....these clowns never cease to amaze me.
handed this article(stabbing incident) into our mgt yesterday,cant wait for their reply.....
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Van Demon,
As has been posted, the problem with a door is that it will require a flighty and i assume another exit from the cockpit.... neither of which a B1900 or J32 have.
I also think it is safe to assume that the smaller destinations such as Wanaka, Kaitaia etc will loose thier service completely before x-rays etc are installed.
I see some tool from the media is bleating on how he managed to take an immitation gun to Napier without being stopped
Its not exactly 'news' rather the obvious.
As has been posted, the problem with a door is that it will require a flighty and i assume another exit from the cockpit.... neither of which a B1900 or J32 have.
I also think it is safe to assume that the smaller destinations such as Wanaka, Kaitaia etc will loose thier service completely before x-rays etc are installed.
I see some tool from the media is bleating on how he managed to take an immitation gun to Napier without being stopped
Its not exactly 'news' rather the obvious.
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pakeha-boy
A knife is a knife, doesnt matter whats it made of if it cuts, it cuts. Even guns can be made of plastic now. A plastic cup or glass can be broken into some very sharp deadly pieces.
A person that has been "security cleared" is still armed with a variety of weapons. eg., a sock and something small and heavy inside it, very deadly indeed. Sharp pencil...... do you want me to go on?
A knife is a knife, doesnt matter whats it made of if it cuts, it cuts. Even guns can be made of plastic now. A plastic cup or glass can be broken into some very sharp deadly pieces.
A person that has been "security cleared" is still armed with a variety of weapons. eg., a sock and something small and heavy inside it, very deadly indeed. Sharp pencil...... do you want me to go on?
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The media are so busy grandstanding reporting the vast array of "weapons" they intentionally took on board <90 seat aircraft. If it were up to me (if I were AVSEC) then I'd be prosecuting each and every one of them...just see what sort of reaction you get if you "jokingly" state that you have a bomb in your briefcase....off loaded minimum.
These journos should be banned from future air travel...see how they do their jobs properly "earthbound".
Fools!
These journos should be banned from future air travel...see how they do their jobs properly "earthbound".
Fools!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Even guns can be made of plastic now
ie; a Glock 17A from memory.